Carlisle Security and Northern Rail: major concerns

[northwichcat]

[1] Having a few inside at interchanges isn't a bad idea, for example Watford Junction has one inside for those arriving from St Albans, as often the guard doesn't have time to get round everyone. But not the only ones at that station.

As the Northern TVMs don't have the 'buy from another station' option up here that would only be useful for those who have pending TODs and decide to collect them while at the interchange station, or those who are making journeys were it is more cost effective to split at the interchange station.

 

[northwichcat]

This is also the situation at Wilmslow, Levenshulme and somewhere else that I just can't quite remember.

It's the same at Northwich when they have a RPI there but Northwich only has them for a couple of hours in the morning when they do have them.

Arriving passengers can't use the ticket machines at Knutsford or Wilmslow, they don't sell tickets from another station.

Arriving passengers without tickets are sent to the ticket office window.

 

[AndrewE]

Arriving passengers can't use the ticket machines at Knutsford or Wilmslow, they don't sell tickets from another station.

I think it used to be "legal" to use a single ticket in the wrong direction...

 

[londonbridge]

You'd still be committing an offence. If you wanted, you could give them your details and ask Northern why they wanted them after, and then Northern might decide to speak with the Officer who dealt with you, if they felt the Officer didn't have good reason to request your name and address. However, whether or not they can prove reasonable belief that you were breaching byelaws/RORA 1889, does not make you less accountable for failing to provide the Officer with the details they asked for.

Despite having learned much from this site I'm still unclear as to what legal authority they would have to demand your details if you were not in breach of RORA or byelaws and there was no evidence to suggest you were, so can you please enlighten me.

 

[MG11]

Despite having learned much from this site I'm still unclear as to what legal authority they would have to demand your details if you were not in breach of RORA or byelaws and there was no evidence to suggest you were, so can you please enlighten me.

My point is, the correct thing to do in that case would be to provide details at the time and complain later.

 

[Cantab26]

It is a criminal offence to fail to provide on request your name and address to an officer of the railway. Revenue Protection Officers can use reasonable force to detain persons.

I would be interested to learn the legal basis of this power?

And for what offence precisely?

EDIT: I have found it. I eventually remembered that this had come up before.

 

[ag51ruk]

This is also the situation at Wilmslow, Levenshulme and somewhere else that I just can't remember

Top of the stairs down to platform 13 at Manchester Piccadilly? Oddest place for a machine I can think of, used to be a BR-era machine but has been replaced twice over the years. I've never seen anyone use it

 

[Starmill]

I've used it quite a few times to collect tickets after I've arrived from a station where the ticket machine was out of order.

 

[kevconnor]

Used it once to collect tickets, back in early days of collection was only able to collect from starting station, booked an advance split ticket Sheffield to Man Picc - Holyhead. Came off the central trains service onto p14 and used the machine to collect tickets before reboarding the service on P14 to Llandudno Junction. Think the poor sod on the gate line had to so a double take seeing me going out on one ticket to return 3 mins later with a different ticket.

 

[island]

Despite having learned much from this site I'm still unclear as to what legal authority they would have to demand your details if you were not in breach of RORA or byelaws and there was no evidence to suggest you were, so can you please enlighten me.

The authorised person has to have a reasonable belief that you are in breach of the relevant laws. It does not have to be a correct belief, just a reasonable one.

 

[embers25]

This is also the situation at Wilmslow, Levenshulme and somewhere else that I just can't quite remember.


Arriving passengers can't use the ticket machines at Knutsford or Wilmslow, they don't sell tickets from another station.

Rochdale's new barriers are BEFORE the ticket office so you have to go through the barriers before you can buy a ticket!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

As the Northern TVMs don't have the 'buy from another station' option up here

Then install it!

 

[postye]

I understand that ARN's automated UFN number is 0844 544 4974. The number for payment queries is 0870 067 9856. These are premium rate numbers that I understand are no longer acceptable for customer service activities and have been outlawed. The requirement that customers should not have to face excess fees for enquiring or complaining about an 'existing product or service' originated in an EU directive. The specific rules were laid down in the Consumer Contracts Regulations of 2013 and came into force in June 2014 and say that the only acceptable numbers are standard geographic numbers, 01,02,03 or Freephone numbers.

There are exceptions in that organisations are allowed to use them for sales and pre sales activity, which ARN might consider UFN settling to be - but if so they must outline the call charges, which their website doesn't.

Sorry to be a bit late to the party on this, but is anybody in a position to post/pm me a photo of one of those forms with the phone number on it?
I have somebody involved in regulation of the phone industry that would be interested to see/ look into this?
Thanks

 

[northwichcat]

Sorry to be a bit late to the party on this, but is anybody in a position to post/pm me a photo of one of those forms with the phone number on it?
I have somebody involved in regulation of the phone industry that would be interested to see/ look into this?
Thanks

The 0844 number is shown on these page: https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/legal/fines-penalties

 

[postye]

The 0844 number is shown on these page: https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/legal/fines-penalties

Many Thanks for that.
That is interesting in some info that is not there.
Would still be really interested to see the actual wording on the forms if anyone can assist.

 

[FQTV]

Noting that this is now a rather old thread, I wondered whether anyone had made any progress in addressing concerns about Carlisle Support Services staff behaviour.

I ask following an incident at a Northern station within the last week, which still leaves me slightly slack-jawed in disbelief.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Noting that this is now a rather old thread, I wondered whether anyone had made any progress in addressing concerns about Carlisle Support Services staff behaviour.

I ask following an incident at a Northern station within the last week, which still leaves me slightly slack-jawed in disbelief.

Perhaps the incident itself warrants a new thread?

 

[js1000]

Why Arriva persist on outsourcing revenue protection to Carlisle Security given the franchise is now firmly perceived as toxic by passengers I have no idea. Probably because they're morons as well judging by their continuing dire punctuality and don't really care about much else other than money.

 

[FQTV]

I assume that no-one has had much success in engaging with Northern about Carlisle Support Services in general, then.

Perhaps the incident itself warrants a new thread?

Not at this stage; any company can be represented poorly by an individual employee or subcontractor at any time. Everyone is human, after all.

I’d like to explore channels through which it can be addressed as objectively as possible first, trying to solidify my swaying lower jaw before I do, of course.

 

[shredder1]

From my experience with Carlisle Security, I found the chaps I was accosted by, (for taking a photograph of a train at Birkenhead North), to be uneducated liars, 12 months after taking Mersery Rail to task over the event, I eventually recieved a full apology, which resulted in a change in Merseyrails policy at the time. I`m surprised this company still has contracts, unless its cleaned its act up over the last few years.

 

[LOL The Irony]

unless its cleaned its act up over the last few years.

The following answers that.

Noting that this is now a rather old thread, I wondered whether anyone had made any progress in addressing concerns about Carlisle Support Services staff behaviour.

I ask following an incident at a Northern station within the last week, which still leaves me slightly slack-jawed in disbelief.

 

[shredder1]

The following answers that.

Thanks mate.

 

[brickles]

Noting that this is now a rather old thread, I wondered whether anyone had made any progress in addressing concerns about Carlisle Support Services staff behaviour.

I ask following an incident at a Northern station within the last week, which still leaves me slightly slack-jawed in disbelief.

What station was this and what happened?

 

[Darandio]

What station was this and what happened?

They have already stated that they won't divulge at this stage. It does strike me as strange that you specifically joined the forum today to ask the question though. Do you work for Carlisle Security/Support Services?

 

[brickles]

They have already stated that they won't divulge at this stage. It does strike me as strange that you specifically joined the forum today to ask the question though. Do you work for Carlisle Security/Support Services?

I can certainly see the logic, but no. I'm actually a student conducting an investigative journalism piece on Northern Rail as part of my final year project.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I can certainly see the logic, but no. I'm actually a student conducting an investigative journalism piece on Northern Rail as part of my final year project.

Well first off, you can start by calling them Northern or Arriva Rail North (their company name).