Incident at Rotherham Central 06/04

[Jonfun]

Just being in a "gang" of football fans isnt enough to warrant arrest or police interference, despite what poster here would like. A crime has to be committed! What would be the response here if I suggested police harass gangs of train spotters

There's a distinction between groups of football fans and gangs of football hooligans. If you think that football hooliganism isn't a problem on the railway then unfortunately I feel you don't appreciate the amount of work the BTP and TOCs do in managing football traffic - and even taking this into account the amount of disorder that still occurs is immense.

Trainspotters rarely hang around in large gangs drinking and chanting loudly. Football fans who mind their own business and travel in peace and quiet are no problem to the railway industry. Hooligans are.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Would the guard and driver have ignored a passenger alarm being operated by passengers on the train? You can't ignore it - it may have been pulled because of a fire...you have no idea why it has been operated until you investigate. Passengers on board may have thought themselves justified in operating an alarm because the doors weren't opened to allow them off and I'm surprised none did so.

 

[DanTrain]

Would the guard and driver have ignored a passenger alarm being operated by passengers on the train? You can't ignore it - it may have been pulled because of a fire...you have no idea why it has been operated until you investigate. Passengers on board may have thought themselves justified in operating an alarm because the doors weren't opened to allow them off and I'm surprised none did so.

The guard did walk down the train and explain the situation to the passengers that they’d have to double back at Meadowhall. One or two of whom were apparently quite angry about it but they would have been in the wrong to pull the alarm.

 

[Revilo]

An excellent suggestion sir with just two minor drawbacks:
1. train tickets aren't valid on the tram, and
2. the journey to the station for onward trains to Nottingham would take around 35 minutes including a change of tram.

Well, that's put a crimp on an otherwise damn fine plan.

 

[221129]

The guard did walk down the train and explain the situation to the passengers that they’d have to double back at Meadowhall. One or two of whom were apparently quite angry about it but they would have been in the wrong to pull the alarm.

No they wouldn't.

 

[DanTrain]

No they wouldn't.

Why wouldn’t they be?

 

[221129]

Why wouldn’t they be?

If I was on that train and saw people making contact with it as it went to move off I'd be pulling the passcom and would be 100% in the right to do so.

 

[DanTrain]

If I was on that train and saw people making contact with it as it went to move off I'd be pulling the passcom and would be 100% in the right to do so.

Possibly true, I don’t know enough about the ‘elf and safety of it to comment, although it’s a slightly different point to the one being made about passengers missing their stop due to the incident.

 

[221129]

Possibly true, I don’t know enough about the ‘elf and safety of it to comment, although it’s a slightly different point to the one being made about passengers missing their stop due to the incident.

No possibly about it. The guard was in the wrong.

 

[Harpers Tate]

If I was on that train and saw people making contact with it as it went to move off I'd be pulling the passcom and would be 100% in the right to do so.

Was anyone in REAL danger of being injured? Does a (full, probably) Pacer set of from a stand at such a rapid rate as to place anyone nearby in a REAL position of danger? And would you feel a huge degree of personal satisfaction, in completely blocking trains and trams in Rotherham - possibly for several hours? Good plan, well thought out!

 

[221129]

Was anyone in REAL danger of being injured? Does a (full, probably) Pacer set of from a stand at such a rapid rate as to place anyone nearby in a REAL position of danger? And would you feel a huge degree of personal satisfaction, in completely blocking trains and trams in Rotherham - possibly for several hours? Good plan, well thought out!

I refer you to Liverpool James St.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

On Saturday I travelled on a packed single 153 from Wakefield to Huddersfield. The noise was ear splitting. Leicester City fans slapping and banging fists on seat backs and side walls in good time to the well synchronised singing. Supermarket bags of beer were being consumed around 11.00am, some time before their match - which they won. As there were empty Pacers in sidings at Huddersfield it was surprising that a longer train could not have been provided on that shuttle service. There was no sign of the guard or police on that train. Later on our return to Sheffield there were police everywhere around Sheffield station.

Last month I saw a Saturday evening TPE 3 car 185 service from Manchester stopped at Dore & Totley unable to secure doors for almost 10 minutes. There was similar loud singing and passengers getting in and out as the crew tried to resolve the problem with 3 BTP officers trying to quell the throng.

It seems we now accept this sort of behaviour as normal. Sorry, during the football season I will be staying away from trains going anywhere near matches, but why should this planning be necessary? It's not the fault of the railway industry as this tribal trouble erupts all around the grounds. There is a cost to all this extra policing and it's probable the extra fare income doesn't cover them.

With the 6th TPE being split at Huddersfield, that service can't be longer than 40m as it must use platform 5 at Huddersfield. At the time it arrives and departs the other available platforms are occupied by the Leeds TPE which is always a 3-car unit (4a) and the Leeds via Bradford which could be anything from a 142 to a 3-car 158 (6). One of those Pacers from the sidings would've given a little bit more space if swapped out, but not much.

As for the lack of police, they probably rightly assumed that there would be no trouble for that game, and no crossover with other fixtures on that service. By contrast Sheffield is a major interchange with the potential for crowds from multiple games conflicting there with each other, including the game related to the "incident" in this thread.

I wouldn't have expected trouble at Rotherham against Forest but then earlier in the season I was on a Robin Hood Line service shortly after the teams met at the City Ground. This service (156+153) was packed, with all boarding from the rear door and alcohol being confiscated as folk boarded. Being a Worksop service there were both home and visiting supporters on board, with both sets singing unfavourable songs about the other. At one point a youngish (early 20s maybe) Rotherham fan started chanting "SCAB!" despite looking too young to remember the miners' strike. Of course this kicked things off until one big bloke from each side intervened to prevent any damage to people or the train.

 

[robbeech]

Was anyone in REAL danger of being injured? Does a (full, probably) Pacer set of from a stand at such a rapid rate as to place anyone nearby in a REAL position of danger? And would you feel a huge degree of personal satisfaction, in completely blocking trains and trams in Rotherham - possibly for several hours? Good plan, well thought out!

What would you tell the coroner?



The fact here that was mentioned a few posts ago is that nothing will happen here. It’ll be covered up and nobody will be dismissed and likely nobody will receive any disciplinary action because of it, despite the offence committed by the guard (as I understand it from the evidence given in this topic) being one that would generally require their employment to be terminated.
I’m sad to say that the dispatch procedure at this TOC is not adhered to fully by a number of guards and I’m unsurprised to read this. I accept this situation is somewhat out of the ordinary but I regularly see guards close the doors, immediately close the local door, give 2 on the buzzer and walk off, either down the train for revenue duties or more often into the back cab. They can sometimes be in the cab before the reciprocal 2 buzzes from the driver is heard and often well before the train takes power. I’ve witnessed dispatch from the front cab of a 142 followed by sitting with the driver, again before they take power. I’ve witnessed very frequent door release without looking. I’ve witnessed the rear of a 142 and 158 combo not be on the platform and the guard release the doors anyway instead of giving 6. Dispatching the train with people banging on the side is of no surprise.

I agree with many comments here about different parties wanting the POTENTIAL offenders* out of their area so they don’t have to deal with them but that is the way of the railway unfortunately, including things associated with it such as the BTP. Make it someone else’s problem.

* clearly they are committing an offence by hammering on the side of the train but that doesn’t mean that all of them were doing it and doesn’t mean that they’d cause any trouble when they were on the train.

 

[whhistle]

There's a lot of blame game here.

Fact is, we're presented with some 2nd hand infomation.

Lots of judgement of "the guard was in the wrong... no question" - which is impossible to say without the guard giving their evidence on what happened.

Just a shame some railway workers are immediately against the guard instead of trying to understand their actions.
Perhaps the crowd did bang on the train. Then stopped, so the train left?

TRUST just says:
AS PER SHF SSM, FULL AND STANDING WITH FOOTBALL FANS, TOC MAY COMMENT FURTHER

I bet my left arm it didn't happen exactly the way it's been described.

 

[sw1ller]

I feel this whole situation has been created by a chain of people in authority that have passed the buck. And it seems it’s happened on one too many an occasion with the train crew having enough of the situation.

The home football teams owner has not paid for enough local police/BTP to cover the large crowds (wether trouble was expected or not)

The police are massively underfunded and simply didn’t have the resources to deal with the large, rowdy crowd. They just wanted the fans out of their area and on their way.

The guard has been let down by the TOC for not putting on enough carriages (someone mentioned above that there’s regularly spare units in sidings on Saturdays)

The guard has then passed the situation on to the next service which has been delayed but seems to have taken the fans onwards.

On top of this, the guard may be trying to make a point of the situation and highlighting it to their bosses the only way they’ll understand, financial through delay minutes and fines.

The situation it’s self regarding the PTI, how is the driver not as much to blame? It was a pacer, right? That has the ability to look back when pulling off from a station, no? Either the driver should have looked back, saw that the PTI was unsafe and refused to move, or the driver felt so unsafe as to not put their head out the window that they should have refused to move!

I think the guards actions have been debated sufficiently that I need say no more about that, other than the fact I agree with the people saying the guard was wrong to move the train.

Saying that, none of us were there, if the guard arranged with police (they were conversing at one point) to keep the crowd back as they left, and the safety of the PTI wasn’t compromised, then this is a non-issue.

 

[DarloRich]

There's a distinction between groups of football fans and gangs of football hooligans. If you think that football hooliganism isn't a problem on the railway then unfortunately I feel you don't appreciate the amount of work the BTP and TOCs do in managing football traffic - and even taking this into account the amount of disorder that still occurs is immense.

Trainspotters rarely hang around in large gangs drinking and chanting loudly. Football fans who mind their own business and travel in peace and quiet are no problem to the railway industry. Hooligans are.

Indeed. The problem us you and the majority of the posters here have no idea who is who and seem to lack the ability to gauge what is actually a danger. I am in my 40's and have been going to the match for at least 35 years. I might have been on a train and sung songs on both the trian and the platform, when we go to away matches we have journey beers and might start on those early. In the eyes of the majority of posters here ( including you perhaps) that makes me some kind of awful hooligan scumbag. it is tiresome and laughable.

I am also quite happy about my knowledge of the btp and tocs plans for dealing with such situations thanks. I have both personal and professional experience of this area. That means that i actually know the difference and the problem that the idiots cause. It also means i know how to spot what is or is not trouble. Many here don't have that ability

Yes well it might be alright to say this if you're a guy with reasonable levels of self confidence and worldliness. What you're lacking here is a sense of empathy...not everyone deals with this sort of situation every day, and for someone with severe anxiety or other mental illnesses it can be very distressing. Public transport should be a safe place for everyone, and if some people are feeling unsafe due to the behaviour of others then that is clearly a problem. Just because some can brush it off doesn't mean all can. Now I do think the guard should have let the fans on in the first instance here unless there was some specific reason not to, but once they started attacking the train that becomes disorderly conduct (or whatever the legalese is), which is not acceptable.

No, what I lack is a willingness to mollycoddle. Public transport IS a safe place. Nothing you describe in your opening post makes it unsafe safe. There was no danger, there was no risk to the passengers. You and many here lack the ability to gauge that. I wonder how you and the anxious Annies would deal with a really dangerous situation!

As an aside I would point out you know nothing about me or what struggles I may have in life. It is a hard world out there and it will roll over you if you cant learn how to cope.

 

[DarloRich]

There's a lot of blame game here.

Fact is, we're presented with some 2nd hand infomation.

Lots of judgement of "the guard was in the wrong... no question" - which is impossible to say without the guard giving their evidence on what happened.

Just a shame some railway workers are immediately against the guard instead of trying to understand their actions.
Perhaps the crowd did bang on the train. Then stopped, so the train left?

TRUST just says:
AS PER SHF SSM, FULL AND STANDING WITH FOOTBALL FANS, TOC MAY COMMENT FURTHER

I bet my left arm it didn't happen exactly the way it's been described.

Agreed. I find it odd people are judging someone based on what is at best flawed heresay. I wont comment on the actions of the guard.

My more recent (limited) understanding of the policing of football fans is that the police will simply stand back, film the events and then make some early morning calls to anyone found to have committed an offence so it's unsurprising to hear that they simply stood and watched in this situation

However there has to be an offence committed!

• Being a dirty, scummy football fan (despite what you and other wish) is not a criminal offence
• Being in a group of men and boys is not a criminal offence
• Drinking is not a criminal offence
• loudness is not a criminal offence
• Using a train is not a criminal offence
• Signing songs is not a criminal offence

There are people who use football as an excuse to create trouble. There is nothing in this post to suggest the people described here were such people.

 

[DarloRich]

I feel this whole situation has been created by a chain of people in authority that have passed the buck. And it seems it’s happened on one too many an occasion with the train crew having enough of the situation.

The home football teams owner has not paid for enough local police/BTP to cover the large crowds (wether trouble was expected or not)

The police are massively underfunded and simply didn’t have the resources to deal with the large, rowdy crowd. They just wanted the fans out of their area and on their way.

The guard has been let down by the TOC for not putting on enough carriages (someone mentioned above that there’s regularly spare units in sidings on Saturdays)

The guard has then passed the situation on to the next service which has been delayed but seems to have taken the fans onwards.

On top of this, the guard may be trying to make a point of the situation and highlighting it to their bosses the only way they’ll understand, financial through delay minutes and fines.

The situation it’s self regarding the PTI, how is the driver not as much to blame? It was a pacer, right? That has the ability to look back when pulling off from a station, no? Either the driver should have looked back, saw that the PTI was unsafe and refused to move, or the driver felt so unsafe as to not put their head out the window that they should have refused to move!

I think the guards actions have been debated sufficiently that I need say no more about that, other than the fact I agree with the people saying the guard was wrong to move the train.

Saying that, none of us were there, if the guard arranged with police (they were conversing at one point) to keep the crowd back as they left, and the safety of the PTI wasn’t compromised, then this is a non-issue.

I feel this post is massively wrong and simply does not understand what it is talking about.

• The home football club owner does not pay for the police outside of the ground.
• This was a crowd of 11000 at the match. The crowd at the station will have been in the low hundreds at most and i suspect much less than 100. The police will have assigned suitable numbers for what is a fairly small crowd by championship standards and a tiny crowd by premier league standards.
• There is no reported trouble. Just some singing.
• The police can only intervene if an offence is committed. Going to a football match by train is not an offence.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I was more referring to the passengers than the guard, although you make an interesting point. Some of this comes down to a your responsability/my responsability thing. The police wanted the fans on the train where they are the guard's responsability, the guard wanted them off the train where they're the police's responsability. Ideally there would have been a BTP presence to board the train and maintain order (whether nescessassary or not it's re-assurement), but with current cuts to policing numbers that may well not be viable.

From statistics on the BTP website it would appear that the number of officers is higher than it has been for at least 10 years (3,079). I realise that that is still not many spread across the entire network, e.g. in relation to around 20,000 trains on a typical Saturday, over 2,500 stations, 24 hours, etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

• Drinking is not a criminal offence
• loudness is not a criminal offence

Actually those two combined, depending on manner, can be a criminal offence as "drunk and disorderly", defined as "creating a public disturbance under the influence of alcohol."

If the fans in the incident described were under the influence of alcohol (not sure of the definition of that, but I guess "above the drink drive limit" would be a good start) it would certainly seem that those banging on the train had in fact committed that offence.

I have no problem with alcohol consumption (I drink myself), but if you can't behave properly in public as a result of it (the sport is irrelevant here, stag/hen dos can be as bad) then don't drink. Alcohol consumption does not and should not allow for a lower standard of acceptable public behaviour.

 

[Gems]

What would you tell the coroner?



The fact here that was mentioned a few posts ago is that nothing will happen here. It’ll be covered up and nobody will be dismissed and likely nobody will receive any disciplinary action because of it, despite the offence committed by the guard (as I understand it from the evidence given in this topic) being one that would generally require their employment to be terminated.
I’m sad to say that the dispatch procedure at this TOC is not adhered to fully by a number of guards and I’m unsurprised to read this. I accept this situation is somewhat out of the ordinary but I regularly see guards close the doors, immediately close the local door, give 2 on the buzzer and walk off, either down the train for revenue duties or more often into the back cab. They can sometimes be in the cab before the reciprocal 2 buzzes from the driver is heard and often well before the train takes power. I’ve witnessed dispatch from the front cab of a 142 followed by sitting with the driver, again before they take power. I’ve witnessed very frequent door release without looking. I’ve witnessed the rear of a 142 and 158 combo not be on the platform and the guard release the doors anyway instead of giving 6. Dispatching the train with people banging on the side is of no surprise.

I agree with many comments here about different parties wanting the POTENTIAL offenders* out of their area so they don’t have to deal with them but that is the way of the railway unfortunately, including things associated with it such as the BTP. Make it someone else’s problem.

* clearly they are committing an offence by hammering on the side of the train but that doesn’t mean that all of them were doing it and doesn’t mean that they’d cause any trouble when they were on the train.

I'm telling you now. The last guard caught walking away from the doors before it had left the station was sacked.

It doesn't matter what you think of Northern. The fact is that this TOC do actually take passenger/train interface seriously. As for people saying railway workers are against the guard. Yes they may well be against him, that is because they have perhaps a deeper understanding of what was at stake here. As a guard myself, I will not support a colleague who rides a coach and horses through safety. I won't, most of my colleagues won't, and neither will the RMT. We have fought a long and painful two year dispute over safety, damn sure we are all not going to become hypocritical now defending the indefensible.

 

[DarloRich]

Actually those two combined, depending on manner, can be a criminal offence as "drunk and disorderly", defined as "creating a public disturbance under the influence of alcohol."

If the fans in the incident described were under the influence of alcohol (not sure of the definition of that, but I guess "above the drink drive limit" would be a good start) it would certainly seem that those banging on the train had in fact committed that offence.

I have no problem with alcohol consumption, but if you can't behave properly in public as a result of it (the sport is irrelevant here, stag/hen dos can be as bad) then don't drink.

Merely drinking, being loud, being a loud drunk or a loud drunk football fan are not criminal offenses. Despite what people here would love being a football fan is not a criminal offence. I doubt you would get a drunk and disorderly charge to stick for what is described above. I doubt that most of the people in attendance were drunk, despite what experts here seem to think.

OBVIOUSLY they shouldn't have banged on the train ( although in the grand scheme of things that is fairly minor) but i can appreciate their frustration at being left behind by a service they had paid for the privilege of using having commuted no offence other than going to a football match and signing some songs.

I also find it odd forest fans were signing after a defeat that impacts on their playoff chances. I cant think of a time I have felt like signing after a defeat!

 

[LowLevel]

Agreed. I find it odd people are judging someone based on what is at best flawed heresay. I wont comment on the actions of the guard.

However there has to be an offence committed!

• loudness is not a criminal offence
• Signing songs is not a criminal offence

Without commenting directly on football fans, as usual you completely ignore the fact that if someone is annoyed or uneasy about either of the above they are criminal offences when you are about the railway as they are in breach of the railway byelaws.

Whether you or anyone else thinks it silly or not (see the General Discussion thread on laws!) it is a fact that they have the right, by the law, to expect the railway and it's police force to enforce compliance. Failure to do so leaves them with a potential grievance against the authorities.

No amount of wibbling will change the fact the byelaws clearly state that no person shall sing to the annoyance of any other person on the railway.

 

[DarloRich]

Without commenting directly on football fans, as usual you completely ignore the fact that if someone is annoyed or uneasy about either of the above they are criminal offences when you are about the railway as they are in breach of the railway byelaws.

Whether you or anyone else thinks it silly or not (see the General Discussion thread on laws!) it is a fact that they have the right, by the law, to expect the railway and it's police force to enforce compliance. Failure to do so leaves them with a potential grievance against the authorities.

No amount of wibbling will change the fact the byelaws clearly state that no person shall sing to the annoyance of any other person on the railway.

Crack on enforcing the byelaws. Most are a waste of time. Please try to be realistic.

EDIT - may I check: Are you advocating arrests of large numbers of people on the basis of a bye law breach on the basis of annoyance?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Crack on enforcing the byelaws. Most are a waste of time.

That one certainly is not, nor is the one about playing devices out loud to the annoyance of others. They need enforcing more strictly. Low level antisocial behaviour is a big off-putter to rail use. And intimidating others, whether an inflated pig's bladder is involved or not, is not acceptable, anywhere, ever.

 

[DarloRich]

That one certainly is not, nor is the one about playing devices out loud to the annoyance of others. They need enforcing more strictly. Low level antisocial behaviour is a big off-putter to rail use.

but in the real world they simply are not going to be enforced other than in the most egregious situations.The police, courts, prison and probation services lack the resources to tackle knife crime. They aren't going to bother with someone playing thier walkman too loudly! I wish posters here could grasp that.

And intimidating others, whether an inflated pig's bladder is involved or not, is not acceptable, anywhere, ever.

Agreed - however I wish posters here had a grasp of what is actually intimidation. I wonder how they cope with the real world. I have been in genuinely dangerous and intimidating situations. I cant say singing was one of them!

 

[sw1ller]

I feel this post is massively wrong and simply does not understand what it is talking about.

• The home football club owner does not pay for the police outside of the ground.
• This was a crowd of 11000 at the match. The crowd at the station will have been in the low hundreds at most and i suspect much less than 100. The police will have assigned suitable numbers for what is a fairly small crowd by championship standards and a tiny crowd by premier league standards.
• There is no reported trouble. Just some singing.
• The police can only intervene if an offence is committed. Going to a football match by train is not an offence.

1) yes, yes they do. Football clubs pay for policing outside to a limited degree. You missed the point of my post, they should pay a hell of a lot more. The trouble is derived from the fact this company decided to have a football match and invite 11,000 people along and allow them to get boisterous. They should pay for the policing, not the general tax payer.

2) where are you getting you statistics from? We’re you there? Was there enough police for the 100 fans? Because I doubt you were there and by the sounds of it, there weren’t enough police. Stop arguing for arguments sake. Every post I see from you is intimidating and bullying, why do you feel the need to be so aggressive?

3) no reported trouble? So the guard didn’t open the doors because he/she was being intentionally awkward then?? Again, we’re you there?

4) going to a football match by train is not an offence, you’re quite right. Was that all these people were doing then? Why did the guard feel it unsafe to open the doors for a group of very pleasant football fans all smiling and having a good time on the platform and causing no issues whatsoever.

And I don’t know what I’m talking about????

 

[Bletchleyite]

but in the real world they simply are not going to be enforced other than in the most egregious situations.The police, courts, prison and probation services lack the resources to tackle knife crime. They aren't going to bother with someone playing thier walkman too loudly! I wish posters here could grasp that.

The railway likes to prosecute people privately for minor fare discrepancies or offer swingeing out of court settlements. Perhaps it could do so for these offences? I would strongly support this.

Agreed - however I wish posters here had a grasp of what is actually intimidation. I wonder how they cope with the real world. I have been in genuinely dangerous and intimidating situations. I cant say singing was one of them!

A large number of loud football fans shouting, singing (often with lots of swearing) and banging on a train is intimidating to the vast majority of people who do not typically attend football matches[1], particularly young children and women (that sounds sexist, but typically blokes *are* harder to intimidate). That you can't understand that is a big concern - no doubt other football fans don't understand it either.

[1] Not even *all* football matches. MK Dons, for instance, is a very "family" club and is far less intimidating than some.

 

[Scotty]

Hi, just heard this from a friend who was on the 2C74 Hull to Sheffield Northern service. Apparently on arrival at Rotherham Central the platform was full of Notting Forest supporters who had just lost at Rotherham.

The guard didn’t initially release the doors and the Forest supporters started banging on the train demanding to be let on. Bearing in mind this was a pacer and these were large football fans, this was quite frightening on the inside.

The guard took the decision not to open the doors and after around 5 mins gave the right away, not letting anyone off either on safety grounds.

The police were standing at the top of the steps watching, apparently one officer asked the guard to open the doors but the guard stood his ground.

Not only was this a frightening experience for many on the train, it also delayed/inconvenienced a lot of people, largely due to the inadequate/non-existant policing. Interested what people think?

I attended the game as a neutral, in the home end, and was attempting to get home to Lincolnshire after the game.

I was on the platform, which was pretty much full with Forest fans, who were naturally going back to Sheffield, to connect with trains back to Nottingham.

The train arrived, and everything was calm on the platform - everybody was patiently waiting for the doors to open up. After about 2 minutes of the train sat in the station, and it became obvious the door weren't being opened, a handful of people were gently banging on the doors - there was no malice, they just wanted to get on the train and go home. I've seen much, much worse.

There were a handful of BTP officers at the station - a couple of them on that platform, and the other 3 stood watching from the footbridge. None of them had a hand-held camera, so it was not obvious if they were filming.

Had the guard simply opened the door, and let as many passengers on as is safely allowed, everything would have been sorted and the train would have gone fairly quickly. Surely the guard could have enforced, with the help of BTP, that everyone got on through his door, in single-file, and made people walk down the train. Once full, he closes the door and away they go... allowing the next train to pick up the remainder. The problem was the silence from BTP and the non-appearance of the guard from the train. Nobody knew what was going on.

In the end, I went over the near empty other platform, and went home via Doncaster rather than Sheffield - leaving Rotherham at about 5.45pm.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That does seem very bizarre.