Can 175s go to Aberystwyth?

[TheWalrus]

Hi

I'm wondering if 175s can be used between SHR-Aberystwyth, and to London Marylebone?

Cheers,

Ryan

 

[The Planner]

Only DMUs cleared from Sutton Bridge to Aber are 150s, 153s, 156s, 158s and 170s. I would have thought 175s could get cleared up there once any gauge clearance issues were sorted. Only traction with ERTMS fitted though are 158s and 97s.

You can get 175s from Shrewsbury to Brum and down the WCML to Cov but not down to Leamington. You can't take them down via Bordesley and Solihull either. They are clear though south of Banbury to Northolt Jn, but not to Marylebone.

 

[TheWalrus]

Only DMUs cleared from Sutton Bridge to Aber are 150s, 153s, 156s, 158s and 170s. I would have thought 175s could get cleared up there once any gauge clearance issues were sorted. Only traction with ERTMS fitted though are 158s and 97s.

You can get 175s from Shrewsbury to Brum and down the WCML to Cov but not down to Leamington. You can't take them down via Bordesley and Solihull either. They are clear though south of Banbury to Northolt Jn, but not to Marylebone.

What is ERTMS?

Why can't they get to Marylebone? Or through to Leamington Spa? So how come Arriva could use 158s to Marylebone? Also are 175s clear through Tame Bridge?

 

[The Planner]

European Rail Traffic Management System. Basically in-cab signalling and does away with signals at the lineside.

175s can run via Tame Bridge to Birmingham New St, via the Soho lines and via Aston and Proof House, but they arent cleared from Aston to Stechford.

175s arent cleared on the other parts as there will probably be gauge clearance issues, the last thing you want is your 175 smacking into a platform edge at 90....

Arriva are willing to cough up the cash to pay for the gauge clearance to run 158s from Aynho to Marylebone, no other reason. They are clear on the other sections as XC used to run them on the Pompey - Liverpools.

 

[TheWalrus]

European Rail Traffic Management System. Basically in-cab signalling and does away with signals at the lineside.

175s can run via Tame Bridge to Birmingham New St, via the Soho lines and via Aston and Proof House, but they arent cleared from Aston to Stechford.

175s arent cleared on the other parts as there will probably be gauge clearance issues, the last thing you want is your 175 smacking into a platform edge at 90....

Arriva are willing to cough up the cash to pay for the gauge clearance to run 158s from Aynho to Marylebone, no other reason. They are clear on the other sections as XC used to run them on the Pompey - Liverpools.

Thanks a lot ThePlanner Is there no signals on the Cambrian Line then?

158s Pompey-Liverpool? Haven't heard of that...Where did they call?

 

[merlodlliw]

Arriva are willing to cough up the cash to pay for the gauge clearance to run 158s from Aynho to Marylebone, no other reason.

Interesting point Planner, when the ATW CEO told his staff at Shrewsbury
last year, "ATW will not spend a penny on new trains or any kind of infrastructure in its franchise" yet will pay for gauge clearance & have on board fitters on all trains on its so called open access adventure to London.

As said before, we await ORRs comments. As for 175s too far from the doctors surgery in Chester.

 

[TheWalrus]

As for 175s too far from the doctors surgery in Chester.

Are they based in Chester? They based anywhere else?

 

[Pumbaa]

175s home depot is Chester - Although I presume they have light maintenance and stabling at other depots, such as Cardiff, Milford Haven, Newton Heath.

 

[TDK]

What is ERTMS?

Why can't they get to Marylebone? Or through to Leamington Spa? So how come Arriva could use 158s to Marylebone? Also are 175s clear through Tame Bridge?

I am not certain but I don't think ATW have even carried out a test run from any where to Marylebone, I was told they had the oportunity for a timings run but refuse due tolack of available stock, interesting considering they will need to fins available stock for a service if the ORR agree. I cannot see how the 158 will be practicable on a 100mph line considering it can only just reach 90 down gradient, surely this is going to cause the current operators on these lines delays especially when Evergreen 3 is up and running.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Arriva are willing to cough up the cash to pay for the gauge clearance to run 158s from Aynho to Marylebone, no other reason.

Interesting point Planner, when the ATW CEO told his staff at Shrewsbury
last year, "ATW will not spend a penny on new trains or any kind of infrastructure in its franchise" yet will pay for gauge clearance & have on board fitters on all trains on its so called open access adventure to London.

As said before, we await ORRs comments. As for 175s too far from the doctors surgery in Chester.

Arriva Trains Wales has quoted that will not use any of the injected cash from government source to fund their London proposals, ATW have also said they do not have any funds for any stock improvements from their own purse, so where will the money for this project be funded from? They have stock improvements, road leaning for both drivers and guards, wages to pay on the outset fo run the service, costs for delays on which I feel will be high and any other costs such as track access fees etc. this allsounds a bit fishy to me!

 

[The Planner]

Why does a 90mph 158 cause problems when you have 60mph class 6 freight and 75mph class 4 freight knocking about ?? as long as they are pathed properly whats the issue ?? Thats like saying LM can't run stoppers to Dorridge because they get in the way of XC and Chiltern. Until recently you had WSMRs trundling along at 60 between Bicester and Princes Risborough between 100mph Chilterns, so whats the difference ?

ATW couldnt get a timing run until the gauge issues are sorted anyway and if the ORR does say yes anytime before the May 11 timetable then Evergreen 3 would have to work around them.

 

[northwichcat]

The 175s are 30cm wider then 156s and 158s and at least 50cm wider than 150s and 170s. When they first came in to operation some work had to be done to certain lines for them to get clearance on those lines, so just because 158s and 170s are cleared for a line doesn't mean 175s will be. (175s are also heavier.)

Someone previously stated that it wouldn't be possible for them to get clearance on the Heart of Wales line but I don't know how valid that comment was.

 

[Drsatan]

158s Pompey-Liverpool? Haven't heard of that...Where did they call?

Sorry if this is off-topic but Wales & West ran a nominal service from Pompey to Liverpool until about 2001. I think they ran semi-fast to Bristol TM, then took the Newport avoiding line, running to Shrewsbury. I can't remember whether the service continued to Chester, and then via the Halton Curve to Liverpool, or whether it went via Crewe and Weaver Junction. Probably the latter route.

 

[northwichcat]

I can't remember whether the service continued to Chester, and then via the Halton Curve to Liverpool, or whether it went via Crewe and Weaver Junction. Probably the latter route.

I remember an Intercity service from Liverpool to Poole calling at Hartford (between Runcorn and Crewe), so I'd imagine they didn't go via Chester. With South Wales services there only used to be a 2 hourly service to Manchester, with some of the old Liverpool ones now being diverted to Manchester.

Copied from elsewhere on the web is Southbound Winter 1990 timetable for Hartford:
06.54 Euston, 07.11 Crewe, 08.14 Crewe, 08.39 Euston, 09.26 Paddington, 09.31 Crewe, 09.44 Cardiff, 09.54 Euston, 10.53 Plymouth, 11.09 Crewe, 12.23 Crewe, 13.51 Crewe, 15.09 Crewe, 15.38 Euston, 16.58 Crewe, 17.59 Poole, 18.24 Crewe, 19.39 Crewe, 20.41 Birmingham, 21.04 Crewe, 22.02 Crewe, 23.36 Crewe.

 

[A60K]

The 175s are 30cm wider then 156s and 158s and at least 50cm wider than 150s and 170s.

I thought 150s are standard width and 20m long - whereas 156s and 158s were slightly narrower and 23m long, but with the same basic gauging? Or am I going mad?

 

[TheWalrus]

Sorry if this is off-topic but Wales & West ran a nominal service from Pompey to Liverpool until about 2001. I think they ran semi-fast to Bristol TM, then took the Newport avoiding line, running to Shrewsbury. I can't remember whether the service continued to Chester, and then via the Halton Curve to Liverpool, or whether it went via Crewe and Weaver Junction. Probably the latter route.

A bit off topic but good info to have!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The 175s are 30cm wider then 156s and 158s and at least 50cm wider than 150s and 170s.

If you put a 150 on a Cambrian Line service, would it be slower than a 158?

 

[paul1609]

I thought 150s are standard width and 20m long - whereas 156s and 158s were slightly narrower and 23m long, but with the same basic gauging? Or am I going mad?

When BR changed from class 155s to class 158s on the Cardiff to Brighton service the first return service from Brighton to Cardiff damaged about 400 ft of the down platform at Shoreham by Sea. Class 158s were banned form the line for about another year while gauge clearance works took place class 156s were used. (The class 155s were needed for conversion to 153s).

 

[HSTfan!!!]

If you put a 150 on a Cambrian Line service, would it be slower than a 158?

150/2 does 75mph
158 does 90mph... so really depends on the speed limits/gradients on the cambrian line, but in my experience a 150 accelerates a lot damn slower than any 158.

 

[The Planner]

You have got sections of 85 on the Cambrian so a 150 wouldnt keep up with a 158.

 

[merlodlliw]

Sorry if this is off-topic but Wales & West ran a nominal service from Pompey to Liverpool until about 2001. I think they ran semi-fast to Bristol TM, then took the Newport avoiding line, running to Shrewsbury. I can't remember whether the service continued to Chester, and then via the Halton Curve to Liverpool, or whether it went via Crewe and Weaver Junction. Probably the latter route.

Never went via Chester.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Arriva Trains Wales has quoted that will not use any of the injected cash from government source to fund their London proposals, ATW have also said they do not have any funds for any stock improvements from their own purse, so where will the money for this project be funded from? They have stock improvements, road leaning for both drivers and guards, wages to pay on the outset fo run the service, costs for delays on which I feel will be high and any other costs such as track access fees etc. this allsounds a bit fishy to me![/QUOTE]

Agree and don't forget the on board fitter on every train ATW have put in their proposal, that alone will rule out any profit as an open access adventure, not sure of a fitters wage, but at least two will be required,so
with ongoing costs of employment that's £60K minimum, so where's this costing
coming from.

 

[Pinewood Halt]

The 175s are 30cm wider then 156s and 158s and at least 50cm wider than 150s and 170s. When they first came in to operation some work had to be done to certain lines for them to get clearance on those lines, so just because 158s and 170s are cleared for a line doesn't mean 175s will be. (175s are also heavier.)

Someone previously stated that it wouldn't be possible for them to get clearance on the Heart of Wales line but I don't know how valid that comment was.

First post on this forum

Just a question:

Am I reading you correctly here when you say 50cm wider? That's 19.5 inches, or over 1 and a half feet difference in width... and 30cm is almost 1 foot. I'm sure there's not this much difference in width. Do you mean mm?

 

[northwichcat]

I thought 150s are standard width and 20m long - whereas 156s and 158s were slightly narrower and 23m long, but with the same basic gauging? Or am I going mad?

On checking someone had put an incorrect width for the 150s on Wikipedia - they are wider than 156s and 158s.