West Midlands Day Ranger

[Solent&Wessex]

VT could have been added to the TOC list for the WMDR as part of the fare increase yesterday (2/1/10), also the price has risen recently from £16.20 to £16.80.

The current edition of the Fares Manual - FRPP - valid from 2nd Jan onwards shows Virgin Trains as a valid TOC for a West Midlands Day Ranger Ticket.

Whether Virgin Trains staff know this or not is a different matter! If Virgin are as good at telling staff about Retail and Ticketing matters as TPE are, then I suspect not!

 

[glynn80]

The current edition of the Fares Manual - FRPP - valid from 2nd Jan onwards shows Virgin Trains as a valid TOC for a West Midlands Day Ranger Ticket.

I stand corrected, I didn't think to check NFM05 at the time but clearly it now show that Virgin Trains has been added to the list and thus Virgin are now officially accepting the WMDR.

 

[Techniquest]

Excellent! That might just come in handy on my next trip to the Midlands then

 

[alex57601]

But the notices and publications state it IS valid on Virgin Trains!

Which was my point exactly. If it says in the public domain that it is valid, then to the passenger it is, regardless of what may have been said in the staff domain to be contradictory.

But seeing as it is now firmly established that the WMDR is now valid on Virgin Trains, I think that's that settled and the OP would now be within his rights to go on the Virgin Trains service on the ticket apart from going all the way to Milton Keynes!

Cue a surge in sales now so the "El Desperado's" can bash DBS Class 90s between Birmingham New Street and Coventry in between 323/350 scoring leaps for as long as it is diagrammed on Euston-Birmingham circuits and claim to be 90 Top Men!

 

[0B00]

Would these 'easements' not allow the holder of a WMDR to at least go via the Keynes if not to leave the station there ?

000030 Journeys from Northampton to Crewe or Stoke on Trent or to stations north of Crewe or Stoke on Trent made on tickets routed Any Permitted may go via Milton Keynes. This easement applies in both directions.

Or:

000032 Journeys from Northampton to Rugby and beyond may go via Milton Keynes on Sundays only. This easement applies in both directions.

SM

 

[John @ home]

I think that's that settled and the OP would now be within his rights to go on the Virgin Trains service on the ticket apart from going all the way to Milton Keynes!

There are a couple of easements in the Routeing Guide which may be helpful here.

National Routeing Guide - Easements

000030 Journeys from Northampton to Crewe or Stoke on Trent or to stations north of Crewe or Stoke on Trent made on tickets routed Any Permitted may go via Milton Keynes. This easement applies in both directions.

000032 Journeys from Northampton to Rugby and beyond may go via Milton Keynes on Sundays only. This easement applies in both directions.

http://www.atoc.org/rsp/Routeing_Guide/easements.pdf

 

[yorkie]

If the journey is made on a Sunday then I cannot see any reason for refusing travel via MKC as per 000032. However attempting to leave the station there would be highly dubious. Of course, to a 'basher' that would not matter! The other one is rather dubious given that these tickets are not routed "Any permitted".

 

[oliverj8]

Does this mean that if I was traveling to Northampton from Crewe for example, I could catch a train to Milton Keynes on Virgin and turn back on my self to Northampton on London Midland using a WMDR?

 

[A0]

Would these 'easements' not allow the holder of a WMDR to at least go via the Keynes if not to leave the station there ?

000030 Journeys from Northampton to Crewe or Stoke on Trent or to stations north of Crewe or Stoke on Trent made on tickets routed Any Permitted may go via Milton Keynes. This easement applies in both directions.

Or:

000032 Journeys from Northampton to Rugby and beyond may go via Milton Keynes on Sundays only. This easement applies in both directions.

SM

Surely these aren't relevant for a WMDR as it is NOT valid to MKC?

When you buy an WMDR you're not buying a ticket from Northampton to Crewe or Stoke, instead your buying a ticket which gives you unlimited travel within an area bounded by these stations. So the fact you may want to travel from Northampton to Stoke on it is irrelevant and certainly doesn't allow you to travel via MK.

My interpretation of the easements is that they are designed to ensure "reasonable" alternatives are available to travellers. So from Northampton to Stoke, one option is to travel north on a direct LM service, but it may be quicker to route via MK to pick up a Virgin WC service.

 

[alex57601]

While you are correct in saying that the WMDR is intended for unlimited travel across a certain area, I have found that (from my own experience) when travelling on a Wigan-Birmingham Off-Peak Return costing £23.70, it is cheaper to instead buy a Wigan-Crewe Anytime Day Return for £8.40 and use a WMDR ticket from there costing £11.10. Buying Advance singles for Wigan-Birmingham come to around £18-19, but you lose flexibility, so for the same price you are better off using the Wigan-Crewe/WMDR combo if you are returning the same day. And now that it can be used on Virgin it eliminates the need to change onto LM services at Crewe, thus making it more sense to save the £4.20 by going down this route.

All prices above are with 16-25 Railcard discounts. It is only an example and I'm not sure what the differences are without the railcard discounts, but it shows that if you do your research some modest savings can be sought if you are travelling long distances to/from the West Midlands for the day.

 

[Railjet]

While you are correct in saying that the WMDR is intended for unlimited travel across a certain area, I have found that (from my own experience) when travelling on a Wigan-Birmingham Off-Peak Return costing £23.70, it is cheaper to instead buy a Wigan-Crewe Anytime Day Return for £8.40 and use a WMDR ticket from there costing £11.10.

You could get this down further by buying a Wrexham-B'ham CDR any permitted for £8.45, and starting short at Crewe.

 

[323235]

You could get this down further by buying a Wrexham-B'ham CDR any permitted for £8.45, and starting short at Crewe.

which as far as I can see using the routing guide isn't valid via Crewe as :

BC
BC+CH
BP+LC
BP+LC+CL

provide no suitable route,which can be put together using all the maps in sequence First to Last

Map WS is the only useful one, however it merely gives you the most direct route via Shrewsbury and Wolves plus WVH-BHM via Walsall which would allow one to scoop the M-F 1936 Walsall - Wolves parlimentary train for bash on the return journey if desired

[Edit :- BP+LC do in fact allow travel via Crewe]

 

[tony_mac]

BP+LC, swap at Smethwick

 

[323235]

BP+LC, swap at Smethwick

ah yeh didn't see that on the extreme left

 

[alex57601]

You could get this down further by buying a Wrexham-B'ham CDR any permitted for £8.45, and starting short at Crewe.

That would raise problems if one is asked "why did you not go via Shrewsbury?"

 

[Railjet]

That would raise problems if one is asked "why did you not go via Shrewsbury?"

Why? It's your choice. I've done it with no problems at all.

 

[323235]

It's your choice which route you take, as long as it's a permitted one.
Questions or no Questions.

 

[37401]

That would raise problems if one is asked "why did you not go via Shrewsbury?"

"More rail mileage"
"Its valid and its my choice"
"im avoiding those horrid 175 units"

3 possible answers

 

[A0]

While you are correct in saying that the WMDR is intended for unlimited travel across a certain area, I have found that (from my own experience) when travelling on a Wigan-Birmingham Off-Peak Return costing £23.70, it is cheaper to instead buy a Wigan-Crewe Anytime Day Return for £8.40 and use a WMDR ticket from there costing £11.10. Buying Advance singles for Wigan-Birmingham come to around £18-19, but you lose flexibility, so for the same price you are better off using the Wigan-Crewe/WMDR combo if you are returning the same day. And now that it can be used on Virgin it eliminates the need to change onto LM services at Crewe, thus making it more sense to save the £4.20 by going down this route.

All prices above are with 16-25 Railcard discounts. It is only an example and I'm not sure what the differences are without the railcard discounts, but it shows that if you do your research some modest savings can be sought if you are travelling long distances to/from the West Midlands for the day.

With respect, I think you were missing the point I was making.

For your journey, you are using a WMDR, quite legitimately, to travel between Birmingham and Crewe, and are then buying an onward ticket to Wigan your ultimate destination. You are not attempting to use the WMDR outside the area it covers. That you are using it because it makes up part of the cheapest ticket combination isn't an issue.

The previous posts were querying if you could use a WMDR to travel from Northampton (which is the southern boundary for a WMDR) to Stoke (also within the WMDR area) travelling via Milton Keynes (which is NOT in the WMDR area).

Easements to allow "turning back" surely cannot apply since, as I previously stated, the WMDR (or any other Rover or Ranger for that matter) allows for travel within an area, it is not specifically defined between 2 points. So you can travel anywhere within the prescribed area, you cannot travel outside of it.

However, if you've bought tickets for a specific journey e.g. Northampton to Stoke, then the easements may apply - in that instance depending on the operator and tickets you've bought.