EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[DynamicSpirit]

And in other news.... Jacob Rees-Mogg has approvingly tweeted a video of the leader of Germany's far-right AfD party speaking in the Bundestag.

Conservative British MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has defended his tweet of a speech made by the co-leader of the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party.

The prominent Brexit supporter posted the footage of Alice Weidel speaking in Germany's parliament.

In it, she questioned the European Union's (EU) Brexit negotiating strategy and called for EU reform.

JRM's defence... "I'm not supporting the AfD. But this is a speech in the Bundestag of real importance because it shows a German view of Brexit." That seems to me a bit like tweeting (and therefore helping to promote) Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (Tommy Robinson) and defending your tweet by saying it shows a British view of Brexit.

 

[Esker-pades]

Another round of votes, another set of defeats. All we know is what MPs don't want.

What an enormous pile of absolute <expletive>.

 

[Giugiaro]

First motion (?) lost by 3 votes (273 Ayes to 276 Noes)
Second motion (D) lost by 21 votes (261 Ayes to 282 Noes)
Third motion (E) lost by 84 votes (208 Ayes to 292 Noes)
Fourth motion (G) lost by 101 votes (191 Ayes to 292 Noes)

This is what I was able to write down. I missed the letter of the first motion.
Has the result be published elsewhere, black over white?

EDIT: The numbers have been published by the BBC according to the following source.
Confirmatory Public Vote:
Lost by 12 votes (280 Ayes to 292 Noes)
Permanent Customs Union:
Lost by 3 votes (273 Ayes to 276 Noes)
Common Market 2.0
Lost by 21 votes (261 Ayes to 282 Noes)
Parliamentary Supremacy (Cancel Brexit over No Deal):
Lost by 101 votes (191 Ayes to 292 Noes)

 

[stuart81]

Another round of votes, another set of defeats. All we know is what MPs don't want.

What an enormous pile of absolute <expletive>.

Surely this means the EU will reject any request for an extension now?

 

[507021]

Another round of votes, another set of defeats. All we know is what MPs don't want.

What an enormous pile of absolute <expletive>.

I agree entirely, it's beyond a joke.

 

[Giugiaro]

MP Ian Blackford of the Scottish National Party has stated before the House that it is "crystal clear that our votes in this house are disrespected" and the day is coming "where we'll determine our future and it will be as an independent country". Source: BBC

In other words, Ian Blackford is calling for consideration the independence of Scotland, to Remain/Rejoin the EU if Brexit goes ahead. Not specified in what Type of Brexit that possibility would be called for.

 

[DarloRich]

Argh! Almost a majority for something!People on all sides need to stop persisting about, grow a brain and agree something. If people want to quit parties or cabinets then let them. And no, unicorn world apart, no deal is not a sensible option. Give it back to the people to decide. Clearly leave will win by miles because it is such good news fop everyone

I note nick boles walked out of parliament after the votes and said he can no longer sit with the conservatives.

 

[bramling]

MP Ian Blackford of the Scottish National Party has stated before the House that it is "crystal clear that our votes in this house are disrespected" and the day is coming "where we'll determine our future and it will be as an independent country". Source: BBC

In other words, Ian Blackford is calling for consideration the independence of Scotland, to Remain/Rejoin the EU if Brexit goes ahead. Not specified in what Type of Brexit that possibility would be called for.

Why would we expect Blackford to say any different? Scottish independence is the SNP’s dream, anything is worth a punt to try and achieve that.

 

[EM2]

A while ago, I said I didn't want the country to be a basket case. Too late, I fear. It's already a laughing stock, being a total and utter shambles won't be far behind.

The UK still has no clue about how to do Brexit.
Three years since referendum.
Two years Article 50 period.
Three votes on the Deal.
Two lots of indicative votes.
And still not any clue.
And the UK is set to leave the EU a week on Friday.
It's a complete farce, although even Brian Rix would have rejected this plot as too ridiculous.

 

[BananaRepublic]

@guyverhofstadt @2240
The House of Commons again votes against all options.
A hard #Brexit becomes nearly inevitable.
On Wednesday, the U.K. has a last chance to break the deadlock or face the abyss.

 

[DarloRich]

And the UK is set to leave the EU a week on Friday.

unless something changes. The only thing parliament IS in a agreement over is that leaving with no deal is unacceptable.

@guyverhofstadt @2240
The House of Commons again votes against all options.
A hard #Brexit becomes nearly inevitable.
On Wednesday, the U.K. has a last chance to break the deadlock or face the abyss.

We are in a really dodgy position now.

 

[Esker-pades]

unless something changes. The only thing parliament IS in a agreement over is that leaving with no deal is unacceptable.

The major problem being that most of the ways of doing that have been voted down.

 

[DarloRich]

The major problem being that most of the ways of doing that have been voted down.

There has to be compromise now. If you want Brexit you have to give up your unicorns and accept reality.

If you dont want Brexit you have to accpet the referendum and compromise to secure the least worst option.

Leaving with no deal is economically dodgy for the people who elect you. We cannot allow a group of euro sceptic nutters to drive us off a cliff. Leaders need to start talking about reality. If that upsets the nutters let them quit. Sod them. Stop pandering to them and be relaistic.

 

[BananaRepublic]

The worry about a no-deal outcome is not confined to the UK....

Germany to face medical supplies shortages, if a no-deal Brexit.....

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-warns-no-deal-brexit-could-mean-medical-shortages/a-48092451


Dutch fear medical shortages......

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tockpile-nhs-health-netherlands-a8769796.html

German car industry voicing serious concerns.....

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/german-auto-jobs-risk-hard-brexit
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...warn-hard-brexit-would-be-fatal-idUSKCN1PA173

 

[BananaRepublic]

There has to be compromise now.
If you want Brexit you have to give up your unicorns and accept reality.

If you don't want Brexit you have to accept the referendum and compromise to secure the least worst option........
.

MV3? ...or is it 4 (as the last defeat wasn't technically a MV).

 

[BananaRepublic]

Looks as if Leo Varadkar is under pressure now.
Meets Macron tomorrow and Merkel on Wednesday.
Domestic disquiet is starting to take on a more serious tone.

 

[DarloRich]

Looks as if Leo Varadkar is under pressure now.
Meets Macron tomorrow and Merkel on Wednesday.
Domestic disquiet is starting to take on a more serious tone.

The EU has been quite clear in their support for Ireland. Can we stop hoping for the EU to have blinked bu now and focus on sorting this mess out?

 

[Esker-pades]

There has to be compromise now. If you want Brexit you have to give up your unicorns and accept reality.

If you dont want Brexit you have to accpet the referendum and compromise to secure the least worst option.

Leaving with no deal is economically dodgy for the people who elect you. We cannot allow a group of euro sceptic nutters to drive us off a cliff. Leaders need to start talking about reality. If that upsets the nutters let them quit. Sod them. Stop pandering to them and be relaistic.

You're preaching to the choir. I don't disagree with any of your comment.

But, what actually happens in parliament is an entirely different question. Since when has the (parliamentary) debate on the EU been realistic? Since when has there been compromise in the political process for leaving the EU? Since when has the apparent compromise from one side been accepted by the other?

 

[BananaRepublic]

The EU has been quite clear in their support for Ireland. Can we stop hoping for the EU to have blinked bu now and focus on sorting this mess out?

The point is not about the EU blinking, but that press reports for the last week have indicated that Leo Veradker is going to be under pressure to satisfy questions about what plans are being put into place to impose, what is effectively a hard border.

 

[edwin_m]

Does anyone know why the DUP don't support the customs union? It seems to offer a route to avoid the backstop, although there may be some details to be filled in. Instead they voted against everything - perhaps saying no is just their default behaviour.

Do we get the chance to find out whether combining the CU with a referendum would get over the line?

 

[AlterEgo]

Does anyone know why the DUP don't support the customs union? It seems to offer a route to avoid the backstop, although there may be some details to be filled in. Instead they voted against everything - perhaps saying no is just their default behaviour.

Do we get the chance to find out whether combining the CU with a referendum would get over the line?

The DUP get very moist about the idea of Northern Ireland being as separate from the Republic of Ireland as possible.

 

[Senex]

Do we get the chance to find out whether combining the CU with a referendum would get over the line?

Do they have the chance to try that tomorrow? I'm still not clear quite what is supposed to be happening tomorrow. A large part of the problem seems to be that so many MPs, especially on the government side, seem to find it so difficult to lay aside even now their tribalism just for a moment and find the best way of avoiding the hard Brexit they almost all agree they don't want. (However, it does look as though things will all get blurred once more as May tries yet again with an MV4.)

 

[Bantamzen]

Does anyone know why the DUP don't support the customs union? It seems to offer a route to avoid the backstop, although there may be some details to be filled in. Instead they voted against everything - perhaps saying no is just their default behaviour.

Do we get the chance to find out whether combining the CU with a referendum would get over the line?

Perhaps they've spent that billion the government bribed, erm offered them for the coalition...

 

[Senex]

Perhaps they've spent that billion the government bribed, erm offered them for the coalition...

Given their consistent failure to back May's "deal", it wasn't money very well spent, was it?

 

[DarloRich]

You're preaching to the choir. I don't disagree with any of your comment.

But, what actually happens in parliament is an entirely different question. Since when has the (parliamentary) debate on the EU been realistic? Since when has there been compromise in the political process for leaving the EU? Since when has the apparent compromise from one side been accepted by the other?

Agreed. However there has got to be compromise. That or another public vote. Remain or leave with the deal offered.

There can be no pretending that x or y or z can magic up a better deal or rhat faith alone will deliver salvation.

 

[Bantamzen]

Given their consistent failure to back May's "deal", it wasn't money very well spent, was it?

Indeed, they could have given me half a billion to go out drinking & holidaying & I would still have given them more value for money....

 

[ainsworth74]

Given their consistent failure to back May's "deal", it wasn't money very well spent, was it?

Well it was only ever a confidence and supply agreement. So as long as the DUP don't vote against the Government on a confidence motion or a budget then May has got exactly what she (well, us really) paid for!

There has to be compromise now. If you want Brexit you have to give up your unicorns and accept reality.

If you dont want Brexit you have to accpet the referendum and compromise to secure the least worst option.

Leaving with no deal is economically dodgy for the people who elect you. We cannot allow a group of euro sceptic nutters to drive us off a cliff. Leaders need to start talking about reality. If that upsets the nutters let them quit. Sod them. Stop pandering to them and be relaistic.

This is of course the reason why Nick Boles quite Tory party last night, an inability of his party to compromise. It was quite a moment!

I was listening to some commentary this morning that made the point that it seems like everyone is still clinging on to their idea on the basis that everyone else in Parliament will eventually fall away meaning that their idea will win. So if they can just hang on and stay in the running then their idea of Brexit will win by default. Of course the reality is that such reckless brinkmanship is more likely to crash us out with a No Deal (though of course that's also the aim of a not inconsiderable number of MPs) and certainly will continue to hack off the EU who no matter what form our exit takes will still be important to our economy. Plus, let's not forget, that we're not done with negotiations! Even the Withdrawal Agreement passes we still need to negotiate what the future relationship will look like, so this is an excellent move to irritate an organisation with which we need to hold more crunch talks in the future.

This, of course, actually means that what's going on in Parliament recently with the indicative votes is the wrong question to ask. The EU won't be changing the Agreement or Political Declaration to include a Customs Union or Common Market 2.0 because those are what come after the Withdrawal Agreement and our exit are concluded. What Parliament actually needs to decide is do they want No Deal, No Brexit or May's Deal. That's the actual decision that needs to be made. Customs Union, Common Market 2.0, etc are all things that happen after we leave!

 

[dosxuk]

Do we get the chance to find out whether combining the CU with a referendum would get over the line?

Unlikely to get more votes than the two options separately. Remember MPs could vote for both options yesterday, but if you combine them into one super option, only those who actually agree with both will vote for it. Anyone who voted against the 'conformatory vote' is unlikely to suddenly start supporting it simply because it's been added to another idea. As Nick Boles said, nobody is willing to compromise.

 

[Senex]

Yet again the prestige spot on the R4 Today programme, the 8:10 interview, goes to one of the extreme Brexiteers in the shape of David Davies (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0003qwz), with "We led the world ... and we will again when we get out of the European Union" and all that. Much less prominent spot given to Hilary Benn for a much more interesting interview on what is going on in the Commons at the moment.

 

[404250]

Benn should give up - he's trying his best to make a difference but is doing a poor job going by last night's results and comes across badly in the media.