EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Gooner18]

Yes. Leave the European Union.
But you can be outside the European Union, and still be in the Single Market and the Customs Union.
The former does not preclude the latter.

But then you’ve not left it as you’re still bound by it , you might as well stay in it.
That’s like saying you pay membership for being in a union on the railway , but you get no vote or choice on any decision and you’re not allowed to join any other union , unless that union say yes.
There is no point to it , might as well stay in and have a say.
Leave means leave it really is simple , even I get that.

 

[Cowley]

But then you’ve not left it as you’re still bound by it , you might as well stay in it.
That’s like saying you pay membership for being in a union on the railway , but you get no vote or choice on any decision and you’re not allowed to join any other union , unless that union say yes.
There is no point to it , might as well stay in and have a say.
Leave means leave it really is simple , even I get that.

Then perhaps the parameters of the original referendum question should have been made clearer?
Or maybe we should have another one with more defined questions?

 

[EM2]

But then you’ve not left it as you’re still bound by it , you might as well stay in it.
...
Leave means leave it really is simple , even I get that.

Then it really isn't simple, is it?

 

[Gooner18]

Then it really isn't simple, is it?

Of course it is , you leave the EU , that means leaving the custom union , single market and all the over stuff you need to leave so your not bound by the rules of the EU that is leaving the EU , or you stay in it and have a say and stop things you think may not be at the best interests of your country.

 

[Gooner18]

Then perhaps the parameters of the original referendum question should have been made clearer?
Or maybe we should have another one with more defined questions?

It was imo

Vote was to stay in or leave the EU. The only reason it’s being made to look the way it is , is because the PM’s don’t want us to leave.
It leaves This country in a very dangerous position, one which could see an extreme party get in , if the vote is not delivered

 

[EM2]

Of course it is , you leave the EU , that means leaving the custom union , single market and all the over stuff you need to leave so your not bound by the rules of the EU that is leaving the EU , or you stay in it and have a say and stop things you think may not be at the best interests of your country.

It doesn't mean that.
There are a number of countries that are NOT members of the EU and ARE in the Single Market and Customs Union.
So, as I've already said, it is perfectly possible. Just because it's not what you personally want doesn't change that.

 

[Gooner18]

It doesn't mean that.
There are a number of countries that are NOT members of the EU and ARE in the Single Market and Customs Union.
So, as I've already said, it is perfectly possible. Just because it's not what you personally want doesn't change that.

So your saying the leave vote was to leave the EU but to stay in it and bound by everything they put forward and not having a say ? That is ridiculous, might as well stay in have have the veto vote.

 

[404250]

The referendum could have had several choices.

1. Stay in the EU as we are.
2. Stay in the EU but renogotiate better terms for the UK.
3. Leave the EU but negotiate to stay in the Customs Union and keep many of the current EU laws and trade rules.
4. Leave the EU with as few ties as possible.

 

[Gooner18]

Either way I doubt we Will leave now , I reckon another referendum is going to happen , one which I won’t vote in, I will never vote again on anything

 

[EM2]

So your saying the leave vote was to leave the EU but to stay in it and bound by everything they put forward and not having a say ? That is ridiculous, might as well stay in have have the veto vote.

It would satisfy the result of the referendum. And this is the biggest problem, because it was never clearly explained what Leave meant.
A no deal?
A May deal?
A Norway arrangement?
A Canada arrangement?
A Switzerland arrangement?
A Turkey arrangement?
Join the EEA?
Join the EFTA?
Those are all Leaving.

 

[404250]

Either way I doubt we Will leave now , I reckon another referendum is going to happen , one which I won’t vote in, I will never vote again on anything

This feeling could present quite a problem in a 2nd referendum. If there was a campaign for leave voters not to vote then a crazy result like 95% remain could be seen as void. Of course if remain had 18million votes then they'd have a good case.

 

[Gooner18]

It would satisfy the result of the referendum. And this is the biggest problem, because it was never clearly explained what Leave meant.
A no deal?
A May deal?
A Norway arrangement?
A Canada arrangement?
A Switzerland arrangement?
A Turkey arrangement?
Join the EEA?
Join the EFTA?
Those are all Leaving.

Oh come on , we know what it meant by leave , i Have said my thoughts on it all.
If the referendum is not delivered and don’t leave the EU and all it’s unions then we may as well stay in and have a say on how the club is run and to protect our interests.

Like I said I won’t be voting again , if the referendum result is not honoured.
It’s a sad state of affairs, I personally think all the Poliitcal system needs a massive shake up , maybe this will do it, I mean the MP’s get a pay rise ( think they are on £72’000) and they get expenses and everything else , it’s a complete joke, throw them all out

 

[EM2]

Oh come on , we know what it meant by leave , i Have said my thoughts on it all.

That's what you meant by Leave. That doesn't mean that that's what everyone else meant.

 

[Gooner18]

This feeling could present quite a problem in a 2nd referendum. If there was a campaign for leave voters not to vote then a crazy result like 95% remain could be seen as void. Of course if remain had 18million votes then they'd have a good case.

Dangerous times could be ahead , it will leave the door open for an extreme left or right party to get in , history has a nasty habit of repeating itself , we don’t need to look to far back in history to see what happens when that happens

 

[404250]

That's what you meant by Leave. That doesn't mean that that's what everyone else meant.

I think your over estimating what people knew on the subject. How many leave voters thought they wanted a Norway model when they voted?

If Scotland ever votes for independence will they have similar problems agreeing how to leave the UK?

 

[yorkie]

Of course it is , you leave the EU , that means leaving the custom union , single market and all the over stuff you need to leave so your not bound by the rules of the EU that is leaving the EU , or you stay in it and have a say and stop things you think may not be at the best interests of your country.

This is false information. Saying it's not in the best interest of a country is your opinion but the facts are there are countries that are not in the EU that are in the custom union. Please do not state things as fact that are clearly not facts.

I think your over estimating what people knew on the subject. How many leave voters thought they wanted a Norway model when they voted?

We will never know exactly what each leave voter wanted; but we can be sure that wide range of different outcomes were represented by those who voted leave. I think many people who voted leave didn't really think about it and understand the potential consequences.

It would be ludicrous to suggest they were all absolutely clear on what options they were voting for and exactly what agreements would be in place if their vote was put into practice. If that is what @Gooner18 is suggesting, then I think we can take what they say with a pinch of salt because it's so far fetched.

 

[Gooner18]

This is false information. Saying it's not in the best interest of a country is your opinion but the facts are there are countries that are not in the EU that are in the custom union. Please do not state things as fact that are clearly not facts.

And if you’re in the custom union you’re bound by the EU rules , not all of them but the ones they tell you that you have to be, you also can’t make your own trade deals.
Thusly if you stay in that you may is well still in the EU , rather than be in something you can’t have a say on how it’s run or indeed being able to make your own deals. Or are you’re saying that is not a fact ?

 

[yorkie]

And if you’re in the custom union you’re bound by the EU rules , not all of them but the ones they tell you that you have to be, you also can’t make your own trade deals.
Thusly if you stay in that you may is well still in the EU , rather than be in something you can’t have a say on how it’s run or indeed being able to make your own deals. Or are you’re saying that is not a fact ?

Are you trying to claim that countries like Switzerland and Norway are "In the EU"?

 

[Gooner18]

Are you trying to claim that countries like Switzerland and Norway are "In the EU"?

No , where have a said that ? I have said they are bound by the EU rules and can’t make there own deals , Norway and Switzerland have never been a member of the EU , I don’t get the point or it’s relevants to the U.K. decisions to leave the EU and the reason behind it

 

[Howardh]

Thusly if you stay in that you may is well still in the EU ,

Which is a thoroughly excellent suggestion.

 

[yorkie]

No , where have a said that ? I have said they are bound by the EU rules and can’t make there own deals , Norway and Switzerland have never been a member of the EU , I don’t get the point or it’s relevants to the U.K. decisions to leave the EU and the reason behind it

So none of those countries are in the EU, yet you think that having a similar arrangement to those countries would not mean we have left the EU? Your argument makes no sense!

 

[404250]

I think many people who voted leave didn't really think about it and understand the potential consequences.

I voted remain, and didn't really think about it. That's the way voting works. Huge numbers of Tory and Labour voters copy their parents votes and have very little knowledge of the policies.

 

[404250]

As for the consequences of leaving, even now these are unclear.

 

[dosxuk]

So your saying the leave vote was to leave the EU but to stay in it and bound by everything they put forward and not having a say ? That is ridiculous, might as well stay in have have the veto vote.

You might have a point, if the leave campaigns hadn't spent the whole campaign suggesting that leaving the single market / customs union was project fear and wasn't on the cards.

Farage, Gove and Johnson all clearly stated that leaving the common market was not on the cards and that there was no issue with a Norway style solution.

 

[Gooner18]

So none of those countries are in the EU, yet you think that having a similar arrangement to those countries would not mean we have left the EU? Your argument makes no sense!

Really ? I am sorry you feel that way

 

[DanDaDriver]

I will never vote again on anything

Then the only person who loses out from that is you.

 

[Cowley]

Farage, Gove and Johnson all clearly stated that leaving the common market was not on the cards and that there was no issue with a Norway style solution.

Which is a fact conveniently forgotten by many leavers.

 

[krus_aragon]

The referendum could have had several choices.

1. Stay in the EU as we are.
2. Stay in the EU but renogotiate better terms for the UK.
3. Leave the EU but negotiate to stay in the Customs Union and keep many of the current EU laws and trade rules.
4. Leave the EU with as few ties as possible.

Options 1 and 2 are the same thing really, as Cameron had gone to "renegotiate" better terms before calling the referendum.

 

[Mag_seven]

Options 1 and 2 are the same thing really, as Cameron had gone to "renegotiate" better terms before calling the referendum.

Yes Cameron's deal - anyone remember that?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Oh come on , we know what it meant by leave ,

No we don't. That's the point. Leave meant lots of different things to different people. There is no one single version of 'leave'.

Like I said I won’t be voting again , if the referendum result is not honoured.
It’s a sad state of affairs, I personally think all the Poliitcal system needs a massive shake up , maybe this will do it, I mean the MP’s get a pay rise ( think they are on £72’000) and they get expenses and everything else , it’s a complete joke, throw them all out

MPs get expenses because they have to run offices and employ staff as part of their jobs. and their staff have to be paid! Or do you think Parliamentary staff are supposed to volunteer all their time for free? The MPs do not generally personally benefit from expenses - it's simply them being reimbursed for money they have to spend while doing their jobs. It's no different in principle from how people in almost any other professional job will usually be reimbursed for money they had to spend in the course of their work.