Can railway suicides be cut?

[Mojo]

From the BBC News Magazine.

Can railway suicides be cut?

Any suicide is tragic, but the 200 a year that happen on the railways are particularly shocking. The first national strategy in dealing with them hopes to cut the number by a fifth. But can people who want to end their own lives in this way really be helped?

Full story at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8456816.stm

 

[jon0844]

Of course you can cut suicides. Just give people more money, a secure job, a secure relationship, all the material goods that people desire that will make their life 'complete' and so on.

Or, start a campaign to encourage people to kill themselves another way.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

I know this sound terrible but reading through that and "Pennys" views about it was a quick death surely jumping off a block of flats is? But either way that would cause trauma to the witnesses.

 

[Wyvern]

a quick death surely jumping off a block of flats is?

But that would imply premeditation

Suicides like Penny's occur under extreme stress when the mind just "takes over".

 

[90019]

I know this sound terrible but reading through that and "Pennys" views about it was a quick death surely jumping off a block of flats is?

Maybe so, but it's not something you plan to do in advance. Generally, you don't decide beforehand what you're going to do or where. It's usually just an on the spot reaction with no rational thought beforehand.

Despite what some people like to think, the people who do it aren't being selfish, it almost just sort of happens, if you see what I mean. I dunno, I can't really explain it properly.

 

[jon0844]

Exactly - which is why the only way to cut suicides is for everyone to be happy and content enough not to have such thoughts.

Totally unrealistic, if not impossible.

 

[Geezertronic]

Maybe so, but it's not something you plan to do in advance.

I would disagree with that. People wishing to commit suicide by train must go to a railway station or an accessible part of track in order to jump so there must be some planning involved, however insane that planning may be.

Same with any form of suicide - there has to be a mindset to do it regardless of how it is achieved.

 

[90019]

I would disagree with that. People wishing to commit suicide by train must go to a railway station or an accessible part of track in order to jump so there must be some planning involved, however insane that planning may be.

I'd say it's more because the person is at the railway station already - waiting for a train or whatever - and if they hadn't been there for whatever reason, they wouldn't use that method, but would find another way.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

People wishing to commit suicide by train

Thing is, I doubt it's that many people specifically want to do it by train, but just use what's there instead.

 

[Daniel]

I know this sound terrible but reading through that and "Pennys" views about it was a quick death surely jumping off a block of flats is? But either way that would cause trauma to the witnesses.

I think the idea is that jumping off a block of flats wouldn't be instantaneous as you'd have the time falling.. whereas jumping in front of a train is seen as jump bang done.

 

[ungreat]

I would disagree with that. People wishing to commit suicide by train must go to a railway station or an accessible part of track in order to jump so there must be some planning involved, however insane that planning may be.

Same with any form of suicide - there has to be a mindset to do it regardless of how it is achieved.

I would agree more with this,having been involved with suicides.

 

[robert2000]

Why cant we bring in a system like one of the London underground lines have, where you have two sets of doors to get through and it's impossible to get on the platform, I think Canary Wharf underground has it. i've only seen it there, I don't travel much on the underground.

I hope someone knows what i am talking about.

p.s. I have done the grammar and spell check.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Because it isn't cost effective, only works when the platform ends are closed off - for instance by tunnel headwall, by nature is stock specific which would cause major problems.

And finally, to be honest if someone really wants to die, then platform doors won't stop them.

 

[Ivo]

It's not just Canary Wharf anyway, the entire subterranean section of the Jubilee Line Extension (Westminster, Waterloo, Southwark, London Bridge, Bermondsey, Canada Water, Canary Wharf, North Greenwich) has Platform End Doors.

But alas, can anyone really expect a station like Birmingham New Street to introduce such doors...?

 

[robert2000]

well I was only making a suggestion, and a debate, isnt that what this site is about.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

And you got one!

 

[Ivo]

well I was only making a suggestion, and a debate, isnt that what this site is about.

It will be if too many more people like me turn up...

 

[robert2000]

I am the only optimistic person on here, when it comes to the railways.

everyone else talks like cant be bothered attitude.

for example, we could make a thread about electrifying chester to runcorn via halton curve, and everyone on here will make an excuse up about why they cant, that was an example by the way.

 

[dk1]

Whoops, Sorry!!

 

[Pumbaa]

Platform End Doors.

Platform Edge Doors

 

[dk1]

To me it is always going to be a problem & unfortunatley the frame of mind of the person is not one too care how they do it or the consequences for the travelling public. It is often the following police intervention that causes more delay as until it is acertained that no foul play is involved, services remain at a stand. The state of fatality ie collection of body parts, or alternative lines avoiding sighting to passengers & traincrew can play a big part too.

 

[robert2000]

modern trains should have rubber fronts on them.

 

[90019]

modern trains should have rubber fronts on them.

The difference that would make being...? :?

 

[jopsuk]

platform doors are only (in this country) installed on the underground parts of the Jubilee line extension. When the Jubilee line got extra carriages (going from six to seven) the entire fleet had to be upgraded in one operation due to door programming.

They're mainly (worldwide) found on Metro/underground systems, and systems such as airport terminal transfer rapid transit systems. I think the Japanese have them, at least half-height, at some Shinkansen stations, but that benefits from being a fairly closed system where they're able to specify car length and door spacing.
Underground drivers have to be quite accurate, even without platform edge doors, with their stopping- which I would have thought is a bit easier with rails that never see rain, snow, leaves etc?
Most lines in this country see a variety of different units and carriages at various times, with a range of lengths and different door positions, as well as different heights of door sills, different carriage widths too. Stations are often curved and far from flat, with different platform heights. All platform edge door/gate installations that I've seen or seen pictures of feature straight flat platforms with level access to trains. To achieve this would require a total rebuild of most stations and replacement of stock (with elimination from the mainline of existing and heritage stock).

As mentioned, people would still be able to trespass or throw themselves from bridges etc (as seems to have happened in Cambridge on Monday morning in the very early hours), unless we encase our entire network in tunnels and/or glass tubes.

 

[25322]

Exactly - which is why the only way to cut suicides is for everyone to be happy and content enough not to have such thoughts.

Totally unrealistic, if not impossible.

Oh if it was only that easy.

With 25 years as mental health nurse I can speak as with experience on this subject. Suicide is often difficult to predict, and ironically its not those who have no money or happiness who are most likely to jump under a train.

Its those with implusive natures and psychotic illnesses who are most likely to choose to step in front of a train or a road vehicle. There area also those who are under the influnence of substances either drugs or alcohol who have sometimes fallen foul of the train and have a morbid (long term) voicing of self harm thoughts, yet have no intention to actually carry out the act until the a misjudgement is made of the speed of the approaching train.

I once worked with a chap who sat on the platform edge and lost both his legs when the argument with a class 90 went too far. Eventually died of liver failure.

It is commments and little understanding of those with long term conditions such as schizophrenia that create the hysterical reaction in the media and general public every time a person with mental health problems commits a serious offence or kills themselves.

 

[Geezertronic]

I am the only optimistic person on here, when it comes to the railways.

everyone else talks like cant be bothered attitude.

for example, we could make a thread about electrifying chester to runcorn via halton curve, and everyone on here will make an excuse up about why they cant, that was an example by the way.

You can be as optimistic as you like but in reality most things just are not practical or cost effective to achieve, or the funding is difficult to get.

 

[MrC]

modern trains should have rubber fronts on them.

I think that would probably only help at speeds under about 5mph and would make things like couplers and corridor connections a bit difficult. As most suicides are at speeds much greater than this anyway then it probably isn't worth considering.

 

[SWT Driver]

I think you've missed to point completely here.

If when someone decides to end it all through suicide then they will do it, no matter how you much you or I, psychiatric practitioners, GP's or police using the MHA to have them sectioned try to stop them they will generally find a way to succeed even if it means using deception.

If you take them away from the railway, then they're just as likely to go & find another location be it another railway location, bridge a platform, foot crossing or even live rails or catenary to do it.

They may even choose to use a rope to hang themselves with, pills & alcohol, a motorway bridge, but you can be sure that they will find a way to succeed in terminating their life.

We need to look & answer the questions or statements "Who are we to intervene" or say "It's wrong to want to kill yourself".

Why? Who are we to extend someone's misery?

If everything has gone wrong for them, they've lost everyone in their life, no house/home, have no money and have no one to look after, no next of kin, NOTHING to live for and they are feeling so low, anxious & depressed they want to end it; Who are we to say NO you mustn't do it?

Yes! A suicide is a big shock to those involved (train/car/lorry/bus drivers, paramedics & those who attend the scene), those who witness a jumper from a high building & those who may find a heavily decomposed body or body parts and those who knew the person socially or immediate family, there's no denying that.

But shouldn't we be thinking, just like a terminally ill person, their pain, their suffering is over.

But can we stop it? No. I don't think that it we will be able to stop it 100%, humans are too devious & cunning and they'll almost always be able to achieve it some way or another.

As for the question "Should we stop it?" I'm not sure?

I wonder by intervening are we breaching their fundamental human right to choose life or death?

 

[Burkitt]

The "easy" way would be to have a large enclosed waiting room on every station, and only let the passengers out of it onto the platform once the train had come to a complete stop.
Smaller stations could just have a fenced area of platform, unlocked by the guard on unmanned stations.
You'd have to be prepared to add about five minutes extra dwell time at every station, and I doubt passengers would consider a few dozen lives a year were worth an extra half hour or more on every journey.

In response to SWT Driver, in my opinion suicide should be treated just like dying from any other illness. It's tragic, the victims and others involved deserve our sympathy, and we should do everything possible to try to prevent them from dying. If someone considers suicide but does not commit it, then the opportunity is there to treat the cause of the problem. And as the original article says, attempts to limit suicide by aspirin and car exhaust have been successful, so measures on the railway could also reduce the fatality rate.

 

[GB]

Fatalities at stations/platforms are only part of the percentage that make up railway suicides every year. Others are from locations such as level crossings, bridges and foot crossings.

There is no point in spending large amount of money at stations to minimize (note: not eradicate) potential suicides when all it will do is push the figures up in other areas.

 

[devon_metro]

I am the only optimistic person on here, when it comes to the railways.

everyone else talks like cant be bothered attitude.

for example, we could make a thread about electrifying chester to runcorn via halton curve, and everyone on here will make an excuse up about why they cant, that was an example by the way.

And many other people are realistic.

We don't just have a license to print money, otherwise we might face problems similar to Weimar Germany where inflation was stupidly high.