Preston East Lancs Line

[d9009alycidon]

Does anyone have any records of trains diverted over the line from Preston Station (East Lancs side) to Faringdon Junction via Lostock Hall Junction in the couple of years before closure in September 1972?? Reason I ask is that while clearing out I came across an old ticket for Crewe Works Open day on 18th September 1971 which triggered a memory of stopping at Preston on what appeared to be a very unusual platform, I remember not being able to see much of the station and I wonder if my Train from Glasgow was diverted over that line. Being 14 at the time and 61 now my memory is not as complete as I would like but if anyone has spotting notes from them I would be interested to hear

Thanks

Jim

 

[30907]

Haven't got a timetable, but wasn't there a Glasgow-Blackpool that avoided a reversal by going round the block and back into the west side of Preston?

 

[furnessvale]

Haven't got a timetable, but wasn't there a Glasgow-Blackpool that avoided a reversal by going round the block and back into the west side of Preston?

That was a regular move, especially with summer saturday specials from Scotland.

The OPs comment mentions Faring(t)on Jcn when the move was over Farington Curve Jcn, a nearby but different Jcn.

 

[L+Y]

Don't have records, but I've seen it confirmed elsewhere that trains were diverted over the EL lines certainly in 1972 at least, during the remodelling of Preston station. I think remodelling work began late in 1970, so it seems reasonable to suppose diversions took place in 1971 too.

 

[Springs Branch]

I don't have anything specifically on the EL example, but can confirm that there were many weird and wonderful diversionary routes, short and long, on that part of the WCML in the early 1970s.

Combining major disruption due to track rationalisation, re-signalling and electrification with the BR philosophy that journeys should always be completed by train (even if it involved a circuitous route) you could see full-size WCML expresses traversing some unexpected lines, especially at weekends.

My own observations in the Wigan area around 1970-72 included:

• Double-headed Class 50-hauled expresses over the Whelley line east of Wigan (a vanilla example).
• Seeing Anglo-Scottish expresses between Entwistle and Bromley Cross (diverted via S&C, Blackburn, Bolton, Manchester Vic, Miles Platting and Denton). Liverpool - Glasgow passengers had a connecting DMU from Lime St via Newton-le-Willows, the Whelley line and Farrington Junction to Blackburn.
• Sleeper & Motorail trains (a Stirling - Dover Motorail among others) diverted from the WCML at Standish Jn via Whelley, Hindley North and the Atherton line, through roads at Manchester Vic, then Miles Platting, Denton and Stockport and back on route at Crewe.

I don't ever remember seeing references to bustitution at stations like Wigan NW during those electrification disruptions. Either the train ran (often with single-line working past major engineering work), it was diverted over another route, or there were just no trains that weekend and you had to find your own way on a Ribble bus, or stay at home.

 

[d9009alycidon]

Thanks for the replies folks! Ref the Blackpool services according to the Branch Line Society "List of passenger trains over unusual lines" for 1972-73 there were 3 sounthbound (Newcastle, Glasgow and Edinburgh) and 2 northbound scheduled services on Saturdays each way over the section between Preston East Lancs Jn (No4) and Lostock Hall Jn, so given that there must have been plenty of route knowledge my memory may have been accurate

 

[L+Y]

Thanks for the replies folks! Ref the Blackpool services according to the Branch Line Society "List of passenger trains over unusual lines" for 1972-73 there were 3 sounthbound (Newcastle, Glasgow and Edinburgh) and 2 northbound scheduled services on Saturdays each way over the section between Preston East Lancs Jn (No4) and Lostock Hall Jn, so given that there must have been plenty of route knowledge my memory may have been accurate

1972-73! That would surprise me- I'd thought the E Lancs lines had been closed to passenger traffic in 1972. I've seen reference to remaining open to engineers and freight into 73 though- so perhaps these trains were the very last in passenger services over the EL route?

 

[Springs Branch]

1972-73! That would surprise me- I'd thought the E Lancs lines had been closed to passenger traffic in 1972. I've seen reference to remaining open to engineers and freight into 73 though- so perhaps these trains were the very last in passenger services over the EL route?

I'd read 1972-73 in @d9009alycidon's post as referring to the May 72 to May 73 timetable, so those Blackpool "roundabouts" would have run in summer 1972, but not necessarily in summer 1973.

I just happened to have some BR Notices for the period to hand (as you do!) and some key dates are:

• Bamber Bridge Jct to Todd Lane Jn - closed 1 May 1972.
• Moss Lane Jn to Lostock Hall Engine Shed Jn - closed 1 May 1972.
• Preston No.4 connection to Preston East Lancs - closed 4 Sep 1972.
• Preston Butler St Goods to Todd Lane Gas Works siding - closed by August 1973.

This would indicate all regular trains from the Blackburn and Ormskirk directions into Preston were travelling via Farington Curve rather than Todd Lane from May 1972.

But the route from Preston station via Todd Lane Jn and Lostock Hall Jn to Farington Jn would have been available until the start of September 1972 - about a year after the OP's journey in September 1971. Ad-hoc WCML diversions aside, those Blackpool trains probably were the last scheduled passenger workings on the EL side.

Preston PSB took over control of the mechanical boxes and modernized layout around Lostock Hall and Farington Jn from 5 November 1972 (and Preston station itself in Feb 1973), so no opportunity to turn Blackpool trains from the north after autumn 1972.

 

[muddythefish]

Travelled many times from the East Lancs lines platforms at Preston in the 1960s to Blackburn and beyond, and as a spotter on Preston station used to watch the Blackpool specials head south through the station on the EL lines and then reappear from the south end of the station about 10 minutes later !

 

[L+Y]

I'd read 1972-73 in @d9009alycidon's post as referring to the May 72 to May 73 timetable, so those Blackpool "roundabouts" would have run in summer 1972, but not necessarily in summer 1973.

Ahh... good point.

I just happened to have some BR Notices for the period to hand (as you do!) and some key dates are:

• Bamber Bridge Jct to Todd Lane Jn - closed 1 May 1972.
• Moss Lane Jn to Lostock Hall Engine Shed Jn - closed 1 May 1972.
• Preston No.4 connection to Preston East Lancs - closed 4 Sep 1972.
• Preston Butler St Goods to Todd Lane Gas Works siding - closed by August 1973.

This would indicate all regular trains from the Blackburn and Ormskirk directions into Preston were travelling via Farington Curve rather than Todd Lane from May 1972.

That's interesting. I've been trying to track- with no success- the route Ormskirk trains took following the closure of the original Lostock Hall station in October 1969 (all stopping trains to Liverpool Exchange were also terminated at Ormskirk from this date, leaving only the expresses running the full length of the route, via Farington Curve Junction). They were certainly running via the EL lines up until this point, but I can find no evidence one way or another for routeing between October 1969 and May 1972.

 

[chorleyjeff]

Travelled many times from the East Lancs lines platforms at Preston in the 1960s to Blackburn and beyond, and as a spotter on Preston station used to watch the Blackpool specials head south through the station on the EL lines and then reappear from the south end of the station about 10 minutes later !

Blimey. That was fast.
Took about 20 minutes when I travelled on such trains. Usually from Blackpool non stop through platform 13 at Preston then round the houses back to a stop in Preston.
Used to put the wind up Preston passengers nôt in the know when on a Newcastle train heading non stop through Preston.

 

[chorleyjeff]

Travelled many times from the East Lancs lines platforms at Preston in the 1960s to Blackburn and beyond, and as a spotter on Preston station used to watch the Blackpool specials head south through the station on the EL lines and then reappear from the south end of the station about 10 minutes later !

You must have been a fellow Glass Bridger being the only place to see both the EL and North Union sides at theSouth end of the station. A fantastic spotting place in the middle 50s to middle 60s.

 

[Springs Branch]

....... I've been trying to track- with no success- the route Ormskirk trains took following the closure of the original Lostock Hall station in October 1969 (all stopping trains to Liverpool Exchange were also terminated at Ormskirk from this date, leaving only the expresses running the full length of the route, via Farington Curve Junction). They were certainly running via the EL lines up until this point, but I can find no evidence one way or another for routeing between October 1969 and May 1972.

I’m always glad of an excuse to get the old Working Timetables off the shelf & this question turned out to be less simple than might be imagined. According to the published WTT:

• May 1970 – May 1971: All Preston/Colne and Preston/Ormskirk DMUs went via Farington Curve Jn. None of these were booked on the EL side. No Ormskirk line trains ran through to Liverpool Exchange (Liverpool/Glasgow and Liverpool/Blackpool trains had been diverted to Lime St).
  
  
• May 1971 – 30 April 1972: All the Colne and Ormskirk trains were back to travelling via Todd Lane Jn and terminating at the East Lancs side at Preston.
  In 1971 there was also a handful of parcels and ECS movements booked to use the EL lines, plus a couple of Class 7 freights from the north going to Ribble Sidings the long way around.

• 1 May 1972 – 6 May 1973 WTT: Colne & Ormskirks reverted to the Farington Curve Jn route. The Bamber Bridge - Todd Lane Jn and Moss Lane Jn - Lostock Hall sections of line closed on 1 May 1972. Only the Blackpool summer Saturday trains from Glasgow, Newcastle and Edinburgh were booked over what remained of the EL routes in the area.

Possibly this temporary 1971 reprieve for Preston’s EL platforms was to get as many trains as possible away from the North Union side while it was being re-modelled & re-signaled prior electrification. So it’s not necessarily the case that this re-routing fell neatly into the annual issues of the Working Timetable books. For example it may or may not have been necessary to divert back to the EL side before 3 May 1971, or transfer back to the Farington Curve route sometime before 1 May 1972, depending on engineering needs. I don't have the periodic WTT supplements which might clarify this.


Two more bits of useless information:

With the trains between Newcastle/Scotland and Blackpool, you might expect that southbound trains did the loop clockwise, while the northbound returns would go around anti-clockwise. In fact, at the end, all these trains were booked to travel clockwise – Preston EL – Todd Lane – Lostock Hall – Farington Curve – Preston NU. This would mean the trains originating from Blackpool firstly crossed most of the tracks north of Preston station to get to the EL platforms, then once back on the North Union lines heading north had to cross the slow lines/Blackpool lines again to get to the WCML towards Lancaster - all in the middle of a summer Saturday afternoon. A bit of a nuisance with it being all mechanical signalling at the time, but presumably preferable to occupying a platform at Preston for a locomotive run-round.


The last timetabled passenger train over the EL lines (as opposed to diversions) would have passed through around 14:40 on Saturday 26 August 1972: 1E60 14:15 Blackpool N to Newcastle.

There was a later train that day, 1S44 14:53 SO Blackpool N to Glasgow C due through Preston at 15:24. But while the southbound ex-Glasgow train would have gone "around the houses" earlier in the day, in 1972 the return back to Glasgow was routed from Preston NU via Farington Curve, Blackburn, Hellifield and the S&C - hence no reversal needed in the Preston area. The S&C routing wasn't obvious from the public timetable, so in similar vein to @chorleyjeff's post, maybe putting the wind up the odd Glasgow passenger who saw themselves departing from Preston in a southerly direction.

The connection from Preston No.4 to Preston EL was taken out of use the following weekend.