Network Rail/Police Vans

[Iskra]

Hi, I’ve just seen a police van with network rail logo on the side and some form of electric monitoring equipment placed just outside the van near a railway line.

What are these vans for? Do Network rail fund them?

 

[Sunset route]

Hi, I’ve just seen a police van with network rail logo on the side and some form of electric monitoring equipment placed just outside the van near a railway line.

What are these vans for? Do Network rail fund them?

Level crossing misuse and NR do put funding into them.

 

[Iskra]

Level crossing misuse and NR do put funding into them.

Great, thank you!

 

[SWT_USER]

There has been one of these vans and a couple of officers at Feltham level crossing almost every day since NR removed the footbridge without replacement a couple of weeks ago.

I understand a temporary footbridge is due to go in this weekend.

 

[baz962]

Level crossing misuse and NR do put funding into them.

What do you mean by misuse. As in the public crossing when they shouldn't ?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

There has been one of these vans and a couple of officers at Feltham level crossing almost every day since NR removed the footbridge without replacement a couple of weeks ago.

I understand a temporary footbridge is due to go in this weekend.

Do you mean that officers are present at the level crossing to discourage misuse, or they are concealed and looking to catch people who misuse it?

Much though I agree that level crossing misuse is a serious issue, ultimately if the latter is what they are doing, it seems very dubious morally speaking (even if the law nevertheless accepts it as kosher). And surely, in the interest of reducing the risk of injury or death (or, at best, delay to trains), they should be manning the level crossing instead.

I really do hope it is the former and not the latter!

 

[DarloRich]

What do you mean by misuse. As in the public crossing when they shouldn't ?

Correct.

Do you mean that officers are present at the level crossing to discourage misuse, or they are concealed and looking to catch people who misuse it?

Much though I agree that level crossing misuse is a serious issue, ultimately if the latter is what they are doing, it seems very dubious morally speaking (even if the law nevertheless accepts it as kosher). And surely, in the interest of reducing the risk of injury or death (or, at best, delay to trains), they should be manning the level crossing instead.

I really do hope it is the former and not the latter!

What on earth are you on about? Concealed? it is a transit van in police livery with blue lights and a huge poll on the top for cameras!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Correct.



What on earth are you on about? Concealed? it is a transit van in police livery with blue lights and a huge poll on the top for cameras!

I have previously seen documentaries/videos where the BTP and Network Rail proudly proclaim having "caught" a certain number of level crossing mis-users. Much as it might have a good deterrent effect, it doesn't stop people doing it in the first place and it feels very underhanded.

 

[221129]

I have previously seen documentaries/videos where the BTP and Network Rail proudly proclaim having "caught" a certain number of level crossing mis-users. Much as it might have a good deterrent effect, it doesn't stop people doing it in the first place and it feels very underhanded.

If people can't see the van set up then they should not be driving. It's not a mobile speed camera van it's parked next to the level crossing with bright police markings and a camera on a pole sticking up from it. It's crewed by BTP and they'll stop motorists if possible but ANPR will catch them as well.

 

[SWT_USER]

Do you mean that officers are present at the level crossing to discourage misuse, or they are concealed and looking to catch people who misuse it?

Much though I agree that level crossing misuse is a serious issue, ultimately if the latter is what they are doing, it seems very dubious morally speaking (even if the law nevertheless accepts it as kosher). And surely, in the interest of reducing the risk of injury or death (or, at best, delay to trains), they should be manning the level crossing instead.

I really do hope it is the former and not the latter!

Discouraging misuse. In the peak the officers are standing at the crossing and stopping anybody from running across once the lights are flashing. I've not noticed whether they've actually spoken to anybody who has ignored this or not.

 

[Iskra]

If people can't see the van set up then they should not be driving. It's not a mobile speed camera van it's parked next to the level crossing with bright police markings and a camera on a pole sticking up from it. It's crewed by BTP and they'll stop motorists if possible but ANPR will catch them as well.

Today, the vehicle I saw on the MML was hidden behind a building next to the crossing. Looks like they were trying to catch motorists who run the lights when the barriers start going down.

 

[Bald Rick]

I have previously seen documentaries/videos where the BTP and Network Rail proudly proclaim having "caught" a certain number of level crossing mis-users. Much as it might have a good deterrent effect, it doesn't stop people doing it in the first place and it feels very underhanded.

What is your view on speed cameras then? Or CCTV used to prosecute shoplifters? Is that underhand?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

What is your view on speed cameras then? Or CCTV used to prosecute shoplifters? Is that underhand?

It's not quite the same having officers in a van as compared to something that is fixed where no person is involved. I find it a form of entrapment (even if it is legal or not what the "dictionary" definition is) to do something like that, where they could just as well make themselves very clearly prominent and thereby stop the offence from being committed in the first place.

I think particularly relevantly here - when theft occurs a financial loss occurs. When speeding occurs then in most cases it is about the increased potential risk of an accident. When level crossing misuse occurs then there is a very real risk that people will be killed, or at best injured, or at best trains delayed and many people inconvenienced. Level crossing misuse is a very serious offence with very serious consequences that I am not sure is 'safe' enough to be trying to 'catch' people doing, rather than stopping them doing it in the first place.

Anyway, this is getting rather off-topic...

 

[bobbyrail]

Look red means STOP it's not unique to the railways or level crossings if you go through a traffic light on red then it's 3 points if you are seen. take a look at the 4r5ehole @5:02 in this you tube clip and you will all see why we need active enforcement. D1**heads like this just will not understand it until Mr Magistrate bans then.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I have previously seen documentaries/videos where the BTP and Network Rail proudly proclaim having "caught" a certain number of level crossing mis-users. Much as it might have a good deterrent effect, it doesn't stop people doing it in the first place and it feels very underhanded.

Underhanded? It's hardly entrapment is it? If you regularly misuse level crossings then having your collar felt unexpectedly is the least-worst outcome.

It's no worse than speed cameras, which ended up being painted bright yellow to appease the road lobby.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Underhanded? It's hardly entrapment is it? If you regularly misuse level crossings then having your collar felt unexpectedly is the least-worst outcome.

It's no worse than speed cameras, which ended up being painted bright yellow to appease the road lobby.

I don't disagree that level crossing misuse should be punished, but having arrangements that "catch" people committing a criminal act, whereby the "catching" is secretive or hidden is not something I agree with - especially where, like here, there is a direct safety risk through that method of "catching". It is like unmarked speed cameras in other countries, it just doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Malcmal]

I don't disagree that level crossing misuse should be punished, but having arrangements that "catch" people committing a criminal act, whereby the "catching" is secretive or hidden is not something I agree with - especially where, like here, there is a direct safety risk through that method of "catching". It is like unmarked speed cameras in other countries, it just doesn't sit right with me.

I am very disappointed that I don't see you calling it a "cash cow" to generate money for the government from "innocent motorists"! I thought that argument went hand-in-hand with the "it's evil because it's hidden" mantra that people trot out all the time

 

[bobbyrail]

What's secretive about it watch the video that i posted their are 3 camera signs on the van , a battenberg marking, a marking at the rear, it states POLICE and also BTP, there is a very tall camera pole poking out of the roof, a tripod is also at the rear of the van and cones are placed at the rear of the van. Is that not very visible to 100% of motorists who are medically capable of driving, fact is some take the risk when they don't think they will get caught but then get a little p155ed off when they do get caught, tough poo poo.

 

[Bald Rick]

I don't disagree that level crossing misuse should be punished, but having arrangements that "catch" people committing a criminal act, whereby the "catching" is secretive or hidden is not something I agree with - especially where, like here, there is a direct safety risk through that method of "catching". It is like unmarked speed cameras in other countries, it just doesn't sit right with me.

How about a police covert operation that busts an armed robbery just as it is being committed? Secretive, catching people in the process of a criminal act which has the direct safety risk of people getting injured. The same, no?

 

[ComUtoR]

People brake for speed cameras because they can see them. It never stops speeding. Sticking a Copper at the crossing just prevents something happening on that specific day, at that specific time. When the is no visible Police presence, people just do whatever they want. Having a punitive element where people act as they normally would and 'get caught' has a greater effect because the next time they think twice. It also serves to reinforce good behaviour in others because others act based on someone else being punished and fear of getting 'caught'

The gentleman in the video who gets 3 points on his license will feel it in the pocket when it comes to insurance renewal. That extends the punishment further. If his behaviour continues and he eventually gets enough points to lose his licence then one less unsafe driver is removed from the road.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I don't disagree that level crossing misuse should be punished, but having arrangements that "catch" people committing a criminal act, whereby the "catching" is secretive or hidden is not something I agree with - especially where, like here, there is a direct safety risk through that method of "catching". It is like unmarked speed cameras in other countries, it just doesn't sit right with me.

Apologies for the temporary diversion off-topic, but as I said before, cameras which are hidden do not constitute entrapment. All road users should be aware of the speed limits on any road they're driving on. If they know they only have to obey those laws where there's a bright yellow box at the side of the road, then this reduces the enforcement of those laws to those specific areas. If speed cameras were hidden, drivers would know that if they break the speed limit there may be a camera that grabs them. If there could be a camera anywhere and you can't see them, then you'll drive within the speed limit.

The level crossing issue is even more clear-cut than speed cameras: it should be obvious (at most crossings open to the public) that those wigwags should be obeyed, and anyone who doesn't obey them should face a stiff penalty (if they don't get turned into canned corned beef by a speeding train). We shouldn't have to paint cameras yellow in order enforce such laws. A mandatory driving ban for at least 6 months should be issued to ALL drivers who do this.

"I didn't know I was being watched" is a poor defence for any crime, let alone one that potentially costs lives.

 

[Llanigraham]

I have previously seen documentaries/videos where the BTP and Network Rail proudly proclaim having "caught" a certain number of level crossing mis-users. Much as it might have a good deterrent effect, it doesn't stop people doing it in the first place and it feels very underhanded.

A little story for you since you seem unable to understand.

My Box controlled and overlooked the crossing at Ludlow Racecourse.
On race days crossing misuse was endemic!
One day BTP attend with a big hi-vis camera van, and a car of 4 hi-vis equipped bodies.
Van parks immediately by the crossing (in full view) and 4 bodies stand in full view at each corner of the crossing.
The first time I activated the crossing they caught 2 vehicles.
During that one exercise they must have caught a dozen others.

Sorry but it is impossible for these camera vans to be hidden and there is NOTHING underhand about their use.

 

[whhistle]

Do you mean that officers are present at the level crossing to discourage misuse, or they are concealed and looking to catch people who misuse it?

Never understood this.
If it was concealed, the person is still going to get caught.

For example:

I speed.
I slow down for speed cameras/vans.
If the speed cameras/vans were concealed, I'd likely to be caught.
After that, I'd likely to stop speeding.
Because there's a law(?) to say they have to be visable, I don't get caught.
Thus, I continue speeding.

The same can be applied to these vans.
People will behave because they can see they're being watched by someone in authority.