Because Pacers can't defend themselves!

[Vulcan]

There has been a lot of slating of Pacers recently, so here is my (not too serious) campaign to show that they really arn't as bad as people would have you believe, as I have said already numerous times.

Some methods of travel that I think would be worse then a pacer:

Walking
any First bus
a Bradford taxi
a horse and cart
a cattle wagon

They may be a bit on the bumpy side, and a bit long in the tooth, but unless you're on a particularly bad one, the seats are quite comfortable, legroom is ok for the majority, and ok for us tall people if you pick the right seat, the toilet works, and (most of the time) they get you from A to B safe and dry.

Who's with me!?

 

[Donny Dave]

I thought a Pacer was a cattle wagon :? so going by your list, a Pacer is the worst form of travel !

 

[Vulcan]

nah, First bus is the worst

 

[Lampshade]

I guess at least being on board is better than being towed behind it, on your face, while being stabbed, repeatedly, with a toothpick.

 

[Vulcan]

very true,

And if it's raining outside, its generally drier inside a pacer.

 

[350401]

True, but I would place the emphasis on being dry-er than if you were sat outside, rather than dry. There have been a few times when I've been sat towards the back of a Pacer, its started off from a station, and a load of water has come through the carriage connection, soaking me and a fair few other passengers. Needless to say, I caught the (generally) 323-run service back to Chelford home, rather than risk another soaking on the Mid-Cheshire line to Knutsford

 

[43021HST]

Pacers must have been designed by poundland for BR. I have never traveled on one, they sound interesting I might do it.

 

[WillPS]

Pacers must have been designed by poundland for BR. I have never traveled on one, they sound interesting I might do it.

Close - British Leyland. Them were the days!

 

[4SRKT]

I've been travelling to work by train this week due to the hideous weather. It takes longer than driving does (when it's not snowing that is), but it's a lot more relaxing. As the nearest station to work is Morley I've been feeling the Pacer love this week, and no, they really aren't as bad as some people make out.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Close - British Leyland. Them were the days!

Also Andrew Barclay in Kilmarnock.

 

[northwichcat]

Walking

You rarely get delayed by this method.

any First bus

Most of them run more smoothly than a Pacer unless you get an old one, which seem to be few and far between.

the seats are quite comfortable, legroom is ok for the majority

Take it you've not been on a Merseytravel one then, they have less leg room than any of Northern's other units and the leg room on the ex-ATN 142s isn't good.

The bus seats may not be firm but when the train stops suddenly they are the worse seats to be in as there's no proper back support.

the toilet works

Take it you don't often travel on an ex-FNW 142 then?

 

[4SRKT]

A 144 with high backed 2+2 seating is a perfectly fine train for local services in places like West Yorkshire. A 158 turned up on this morning's late running 07:43 Leeds - Huddersfield and it took ages to get all the punters off the incoming working from Marsden, compounding lateness for the 07:43. Seating capacities on a 158 and a 3-car 2+2 144 are similar, but the 144 has 5 doors instead of 4, and they are wider and easier to access from inside (no vestibules)

 

[90019]

unless you get an old one, which seem to be few and far between.

You obviously don't know Firstbus then!

 

[Fincra5]

I thought a Pacer was a cattle wagon :? so going by your list, a Pacer is the worst form of travel !

The ride comfort certainly makes it feel like one

 

[northwichcat]

You obviously don't know Firstbus then!

Most First buses I see are 'R' reg or newer. 'R' reg is a lot newer than Pacers that are the same age as 'A' reg buses and buses that old were likely built by British Leyland and have the old style bus seats like 142s.

 

[trickyvegas]

I had to take the bus option this morning as only 2 out of 9 scheduled services had shown in 90 minutes and no way were 300 people going to fit on the already overcrowded trains and the First bus was mercifully warm and comfortable in the face of minus 10 outside. Then had to switch to Stagecoach double-decker to complete my journey which had a layer of ice on the INSIDE of the windows and I had found something worse than a pacer.

 

[90019]

Most First buses I see are 'R' reg or newer. 'R' reg is a lot newer than Pacers that are the same age as 'A' reg buses and buses that old were likely built by British Leyland and have the old style bus seats like 142s.

Pacers are equivalent to C-E reg, up until recently we still had plenty of C reg buses here (there were definately some old style X reg buses running not that long ago), haven't paid much attention to First recently so can't remember what the oldest they're using now is.

Lothian only got rid of the last of the E reg buses in 2009, but they're now being used elsewhere and will continue to be used for some time yet.

 

[Drsatan]

The ride quality on 142s is certainly variable. When I traveled on one to Exmouth a few months ago the ride quality was pretty awful when leaving Exeter Central, which isn't helped by the fact that the bench-type seats on FGW's 142s are uncomfortable and provide almost no support. However, when it was on the branch the ride quality improved a bit, helped by the fact that most of the track on the Exmouth branch has been replaced by CWR.

 

[northwichcat]

Pacers are equivalent to C-E reg, up until recently we still had plenty of C reg buses here (there were definately some old style X reg buses running not that long ago), haven't paid much attention to First recently so can't remember what the oldest they're using now is.

Lothian only got rid of the last of the E reg buses in 2009, but they're now being used elsewhere and will continue to be used for some time yet.

I thought it was 1984 not 1985, but 1984 is wrong. However, for C reg to be correct it would assume that the train was not put on the rails outside the works where it was built, even for testing purposes, before 1st September 1985.

 

[90019]

I thought it was 1984 not 1985, but 1984 is wrong. However, for C reg to be correct it would assume that the train was not put on the rails outside the works where it was built, even for testing purposes, before 1st September 1985.

Good point, although C was from August 85, not September (Changed to September in 99 with V reg).
So it should be B-E reg.

 

[poshbakerloo]

I would rather take a 142 than walk...

 

[Lampshade]

I would rather take a 142 than walk...

I have walked rather than taken a 142 before

 

[trickyvegas]

I have walked rather than taken a 142 before

Same here - Stalybridge to Huddersfield, beautiful 18 mile stretch.

 

[Vulcan]

In defence of the Pacer again, and a bit more seriously this time, I had a 2 hour journey on 142019 tonight from Morecambe to Shipley. I was conciously trying to analyse the ride quality with this thread in mind, and actually its not as bad as everyone makes out. It is mostly jointed track on the Morecambe line, and although the unit bounces a bit over the rail joints, it was smooth enough that I fell asleep for a bit.
Most of the time it really isn't any worse then riding on any modern bus. It was also comfortably warm (apart from the cold breeze from the doors sometimes) However it did smell a bit of p!$$ ...and legroom is bad unless you get one of the facing seats or the sideways seats. :cry:

 

[poshbakerloo]

I had a 2 hour journey on 142019 tonight from Morecambe to Shipley.

O.M.G. 2hrs urg i would actually die!

 

[TrainBrain185]

O.M.G. 2hrs urg i would actually die!

You said earlier that you would rather take a 142 than walk. My advice to you is don't travel by 142 because you now say it could be fatal!!

 

[GNERman]

You obviously don't know Firstbus then!

First Buses aren't so bad, they are quick to replace old buses on busy routes, the bus conditions are not so bad and they get the job done...

 

[adamp]

Id rather a 142 any day than a moody, arrogant, annoying and just generally a pillock first bus driver.
Cant stand buses.
The actual buses are ok just the people/drivers.

 

[Ivo]

I think Arriva are bigger culprits than First in terms of buses... and both companies' Pacers are worthless. Faced with a Pacer from Exmouth to Dawlish, I think I'd rather swim across the Exe Estuary. They take some of the glamour away from some of the country's finest routes.

 

[royaloak]

Id rather a 142 any day than a moody, arrogant, annoying and just generally a pillock first bus driver.
Cant stand buses.
The actual buses are ok just the people/drivers.

When bus drivers have to put up with self righteous, opinionated tw*ts like you is it any wonder?
Have you ever done the job and seen what a bus driver has to put up with in an average day? No, well until you have got an idea of what you are talking about keep your opinions to yourself!

 

[Vulcan]

I didn't mean any disrespect to any first employees by including First buses on the list of things worse then travelling by pacer, lets just get that clear before this debate continues!

However, if you get used to travelling by first bus, when you get on a Keighley & District bus it doesn't half show them up. Clean, well driven, no graffiti/window etching, warm and friendly. Unfortunately they don't operate from my house to Bradford city centre, so a K&D journey remains a special occasion*





*well, as special as a bus journey can be, please don't confuse me for a bus enthusiast!