EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Esker-pades]

The point of checks and balances is that they are supposed to lock in the status quo.

I disagree. The point of checks and balances is to prevent the (in this case) executive doing something detrimental/damaging.

 

[Groningen]

The UK has opened a medical hub for supplies of medicine in Belgium.

 

[Howardh]

So, watching parliament today, it's now one day to vote on the deal, and if rejected the next day to vote to eliminate no-deal (both likely to happen) so the day after that they have to get A50 extended.
Once we reach that point, then what?
Either she accepts Labour's position and gets that through, goes to the country with her deal vs. remain or.....well, what other options are there?
Are we finally, finally beginning to see the end of Brexit? Could put Labour's Deal v remain as an option if we went down Labour's route.

 

[HH]

Nah. The barely trained polecats have to have their day. No deal Brexit has to be on the table in a Referendum - just so as no-one can claim it wasn't an option afterwards.

 

[jellybaby]

I don't entirely see the need for stickers when cameras can just look up by registration number.

Some countries aren't keen on as much CCTV and mass surveillance as we have in the UK.

 

[Howardh]

Some countries aren't keen on as much CCTV and mass surveillance as we have in the UK.

I don't know - can UK cameras identify the car/owner if they are on foreign plates - and for that matter tolls (eg London) be chased up if unpaid?

 

[jellybaby]

can UK cameras identify the car/owner if they are on foreign plates - and for that matter tolls (eg London) be chased up if unpaid?

Yes and yes.

 

[nlogax]

Yes and yes.

How does that work..is it useful only if there's already a reference to the foreign plate on the UK PNC, or is there realtime access to EU vehicle and driver data? Sorry, I know this is taking things a tad off-topic.

 

[Howardh]

How does that work..is it useful only if there's already a reference to the foreign plate on the UK PNC, or is there realtime access to EU vehicle and driver data? Sorry, I know this is taking things a tad off-topic.

If there is an EU databank (which doesn't help for Russian cars etc) then won't we lose that after Brexit - at least if there's no deal??

 

[mmh]

Yes and yes.

That's not true.

 

[Esker-pades]

That's not true.

Could you elaborate please?

 

[jellybaby]

Could you elaborate please?

Not all foreign registered vehicles are successfully fined. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-40996859

Figures show about 1,160,000 fines - worth about £81m - have been passed to a European debt recovery agency since the Dart Charge began in 2014

Mr Freeman - known as "Mr Loophole" - said it sent out a bad message.

Highways England said non-payment was being followed up in the UK and abroad..

Bit some are so they can identify the owner and can collect a fine.

 

[Please Explain]

Some countries aren't keen on as much CCTV and mass surveillance as we have in the UK.

1984...

 

[EM2]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-polit...ews&ocid=socialflow_twitter&ns_source=twitter

Brexit: No-deal impact assessment published

The government has published its assessment of the impact of a no-deal Brexit on business and trade.

The report said "some food prices are likely to increase" and customs checks could cost business £13bn a year in a no-deal scenario.

It also said there was "little evidence that businesses are preparing in earnest".

But the government said it had undertaken "significant action" to prepare for no deal on 29 March.

It comes as the PM has promised MPs votes on delaying Brexit or ruling out no deal, if her deal is rejected again.

Theresa May's Brexit deal was comprehensively rejected by MPs on 15 January and she has said they will get a second chance to vote on it - possibly with some changes - by 12 March.

The UK is currently due to leave the EU on 29 March - with or without a deal.

The government's report, which was drawn up for the cabinet, said: "One of the most visible ways in which the UK would be affected by delays in goods crossing the Channel is our food supply, 30% of which comes from the EU."

Possible disruption to cross-Channel trade "would lead to reduced availability and choice of products", the document said.

"This would not lead to an overall shortage of food in the UK, and less than one in 10 food items would be directly affected by any delays across the short Channel crossings.

"However, at the time of year we will be leaving the EU, the UK is particularly reliant on the short Channel crossings for fresh fruit and vegetables.

"In the absence of other action from government, some food prices are likely to increase, and there is a risk that consumer behaviour could exacerbate, or create, shortages in this scenario.

"As of February 2019, many businesses in the food supply industry are unprepared for a no-deal scenario."

It repeated analysis suggesting a no-deal scenario could leave the UK economy 6.3% to 9% smaller after 15 years, compared to what it would have been.

It said the worst-hit areas economically in a no-deal scenario would be Wales (-8.1%), Scotland (-8.0%), Northern Ireland (-9.1%) and the north east (-10.5%).

The document said slightly more than two-thirds of the government's most critical preparation projects - and fewer than 85% overall - were "on track" for completion in time for 29 March.

It also warned that a no-deal Brexit would "affect the viability of many businesses across Northern Ireland", and said some businesses could relocate to the Republic of Ireland.

The publication of the document follows a proposed amendment last month from former Conservative MP Anna Soubry and backed by ex-Labour MP Chuka Umunna - who are both now members of the newly-formed Independent Group.

In the Commons, Ms Soubry told MPs that the document was only a summary and she asked for access to the papers "which actually go into the detail", which she was shown in privy council terms (confidential terms).

"It's the detail that actually fully explains the impact of a no-deal Brexit, leaving the Brexit Secretary to comment that it would be 'ruinous' for this country," she said.

Deputy speaker Lindsay Hoyle said he was "sorry" that Ms Soubry felt she had been "slightly short-changed on what would be available".

"I would expect ministers to take on board your request and hopefully... you will pursue it other than on this point of order," he said.

And Mr Umunna said the report painted "a disastrous picture of the catastrophe which would befall our country if there is a no-deal Brexit".

"In light of what she knows, it is utterly irresponsible for the Prime Minister to keep a no-deal Brexit on the table given the extreme damage it will do," he said.

"These papers set out how food prices will rise, we may see panic buying, there will be severe disruption at the border, and jobs and livelihoods would immediately be put at risk.

"Today she told the House of Commons she is listening, but MPs have passed a motion rejecting a no-deal Brexit and yet she refuses to request an extension of the Article 50 process in order to stop no-deal
happening."

 

[Esker-pades]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-polit...ews&ocid=socialflow_twitter&ns_source=twitter

Brexit: No-deal impact assessment published

All going well then .

some food prices are likely to increase

Possible disruption to cross-Channel trade "would lead to reduced availability and choice of products", the document said.

"This would not lead to an overall shortage of food in the UK, and less than one in 10 food items would be directly affected by any delays across the short Channel crossings.

"However, at the time of year we will be leaving the EU, the UK is particularly reliant on the short Channel crossings for fresh fruit and vegetables.

This chimes directly against the cheaper food mantra that is continued to be spouted by Reeeees-Moggg and co.

It also said there was "little evidence that businesses are preparing in earnest".

"affect the viability of many businesses across Northern Ireland"

Good for business(!)

"It's the detail that actually fully explains the impact of a no-deal Brexit, leaving the Brexit Secretary to comment that it would be 'ruinous' for this country," she said.

It would be very interesting to see the full detail. If people know what is actually going to happen, we can all make an informed judgement. No doubt the usual "fake news", "project fear" and the like would take over again.

 

[mmh]

Could you elaborate please?

There is no Europe wide database of vehicle registrations, automatic enforcement cameras in Great Britain (not including Northern Ireland) can only trigger automatic penalties to registrations on the DVLA's database.

 

[Groningen]

I was blocked from Twitter for 12 hours for using the words Beachy Head and jumping of a cliff. The accountuser who filed the complaint thought that i meant him, but i had it about the UK Jumping into the unknown! I was not clear enough.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Until the education system and teaching of languages reaches a decent standard then this country can not cope with nor deserves to be a part of the EU. Many of the remain camp are more the real xenophobe than the rabid Farage types - they wish to remain in the EU yet are too lazy to learn any of it's languages. People will SELL to you in any language - they much prefer to BUY in their own.

 

[radamfi]

Until the education system and teaching of languages reaches a decent standard then this country can not cope with nor deserves to be a part of the EU. Many of the remain camp are more the real xenophobe than the rabid Farage types - they wish to remain in the EU yet are too lazy to learn any of it's languages. People will SELL to you in any language - they much prefer to BUY in their own.

Foreign language learning is about as good in Ireland as in the UK, but no one seriously thinks the Irish are anything other than committed Europeans. The de facto international language in Europe is English and only a minority of Europeans fluently speak any other European language other than their own and English and very few speak more than one other language. For example, not many Polish people can speak Finnish and not many Finnish people can speak Polish, so when Polish and Finnish people talk together English would be the obvious language to use. Even the Dutch, who are considered to be the most polyglot country in Europe if not the world, will only generally speak Dutch, English and German fluently at best. When a Dutch person goes on holiday in Finland, they will use English just like a Brit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_Netherlands

There is a trend of learning foreign languages in the Netherlands: between 90% and 93% of the total population are able to converse in English, 71% in German, 29% in French and 5% in Spanish.

 

[Please Explain]

Foreign language learning is about as good in Ireland as in the UK, but no one seriously thinks the Irish are anything other than committed Europeans. The de facto international language in Europe is English and only a minority of Europeans fluently speak any other European language other than their own and English and very few speak more than one other language. For example, not many Polish people can speak Finnish and not many Finnish people can speak Polish, so when Polish and Finnish people talk together English would be the obvious language to use. Even the Dutch, who are considered to be the most polyglot country in Europe if not the world, will only generally speak Dutch, English and German fluently at best. When a Dutch person goes on holiday in Finland, they will use English just like a Brit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_Netherlands

Some very interesting observations there.

This is not just limited to UK / Éire though, but anglophone countries in general, At least in my experience anyway.
I noticed this especially at the World Cup in Russia last year, all the fans from anglophone countries spoke next to no Russian at all and I found myself assisting several who were struggling with the locals, not just limited to English, but visiting Nigerians, Canadians, Australians and Americans too.

I had this conversation with a German friend recently who said this is "because everyone speaks English", as English has became the international language of business in recent years, therefore anglophones now find themselves in the extremely fortunate position that their native tongue has became almost universally understood by many across the world, baring some regions like ex-USSR or South America.
So there is now less incentive to learn other languages as it is presumed that everyone else should learn English as the international language..
Personally, I find this a narrow-minded viewpoint to have and very much encourage all nationalities to learn at least one other language and try and make the effort to learn at least the basics of their neighbours language.
I find the majority of French people in NPdC et Normandie do this but sadly the majority of their neighbours over the Channel in Kent and Sussex do not do the same and there is often an atmosphere of hostility towards one and other which really saddens me...

I myself will alsways try to learn basic pleasantries at the very least as a mark of respect wherever I find myself in the world, as I believe it would just be simply downright disrespectful and rude to approach a stranger in say, Helsinki and scream: "DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH?!" at them!
Instead, how hard is it just to Google and memorise some basic greetings before you go such as: "Hyvää huomenta, puhutko englantia?" before continuing in English.
It took me a couple of seconds!
Maybe it's just me, but I think it's just a sign of respect and common courtesy.

Having said that, as a regular visitor to Belgium and the Netherlands over the years, I fell in love with their culture, bier, music and language -(which I'm told Nederlands or Frysk is the closest to English, but I have found Deutsch far easier to learn, -maybe because I did that in school!), got myself a book and have been learning Dutch since just for fun.
What @LivingBelowYM says about the Dutch people, I find especially true as think they really do go way above and beyond and tend to know so many languages, the Swiss are also amazing at this and I think we should never take those excellent skills for granted.
The down side to this is though whenever I find myself speaking Nederlands in NL, everyone almost always replies in Engels when they hear my accent!
Well around Amsterdam and most of Noord en Zuid-Holland anyway but I was in Groningen en Leeuwarden last year and got talking to a most friendly elderly gentleman who told me he spoke no Engels at all!
And then there was the narrow-minded Dovorian taxi driver that proclaimed:
"Dutch is such a useless language, why the hell would anyone want to learn Dutch?!"

In België though, I find it to be the best place to practice, especially with the NMBS staff who are always very happy to help, albeit in their lovely Vlaams dialects which can be a challenge to comprehend at times!
The same can be said of the francophones in Brussel and wallonia too!
Then you have the German speakers in Eupen and the Ostkantons as well, it really is a unique country which is so underrated in my opinion and it has a great railway too!
But I really am getting way off topic now..

 

[Groningen]

There are Turkish people in the Netherlands that only speak only their own language. Even when being in the Netherlands for more than 40 years. Newspapers and television from Turkey only.

 

[Esker-pades]

Vote 502 to 20 in favour of allowing the government flexibility in the Article 50 deadline date. There is now legitimacy for May to ask the EU for an extension, should she need it.

 

[furnessvale]

Vote 502 to 20 in favour of allowing the government flexibility in the Article 50 deadline date. There is now legitimacy for May to ask the EU for an extension, should she need it.

Given the veto applies, will the EU grant one?

Secondly, what would an extension achieve?

 

[Esker-pades]

Given the veto applies, will the EU grant one?

Surprisingly, I don't know. The only state making negative noises is France. They have said that they will block unless there is a clear objective which has changed.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...esa-may-france-germany-eu-talks-a8799506.html

Secondly what would an extension achieve?

In theory, a "better" deal. In practice, probably sod all.

 

[SHD]

The extension bears the risk of a cliffer edge on July 1st - and this is probably Theresa May’s strategy to force the Commons into voting her deal.

Let me explain.
If the UK does not participate in the European elections, then it will be out of the European Union on July 1st. This time, no safety belt. Thrown from the cliffs at Dover into the sea.

So the only way to obtain a longer extension for the UK would be to organise European MEP elections. Mayhem guaranteed in the old and dessicate oak (Sorry, I meant Conservative) party as well as in the Trotskyte sect that was once Clement Attlee’s party. I do not see how it would be politically tenable for HMG to proceed with MEP elections.

If this strategy works, and if the House bows to the pressure, the UK will exit on the terms of the WA. If it fails, and if the House does not come to a meaningful vote on the WA... there will probably be less UK-registered cars on the French motorways carrying the Smiths and Joneses towards their vacation this summer, among other disagreements.

 

[Howardh]

Meanwhile; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47400679

Net migration to the UK from countries outside the European Union has hit its highest level for 15 years, says the Office for National Statistics.
Figures show 261,000 more non-EU citizens came to the UK than left in the year ending September 2018 - the highest since 2004.
In contrast, net migration from EU countries has continued to fall to a level last seen in 2009.

Looks like our votes to have fewer immigrants thus freeing up space on the roads/hospitals/schools/surgeries is on target then.

 

[Esker-pades]

George Eustice (Minister of State for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food) has resigned in protest at the possible delay to leaving the EU.*

Source:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-47405261


*Don't worry, I hadn't heard of him either.

 

[HH]

 

[mmh]

Meanwhile; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47400679

Looks like our votes to have fewer immigrants thus freeing up space on the roads/hospitals/schools/surgeries is on target then.

As ever, it's the remainers who are most obsessed with immigration

 

[Howardh]

As ever, it's the remainers who are most obsessed with immigration

GREAT!!!!, if it doesn't bother you give us our freedom of movement back!!!!