The etiquette of closing windows on trains....

[Howardh]

Last night I was sat in the front of the carriage, sheltered, heating below me. However, downwind, sat a dozen or so other pax, and a few of the windows were open thus giving them an icy blast.

I wondered would anyone get up to close them...or would they think "I must be the only one shivering, everyone else must be happy so I'll leave them open and I won't ask" so the Great British Reserve gets in the way of everyone having a comfortable journey??

 

[nlogax]

It's always a contentious time of year for it, and the extra-warm spell we've been having doesn't make it easier. Unless I'm imagining it (?) I often find the heating on 455s and 456s stays on for some considerable time into the spring months so I open a window or two near where I'm sitting. Am in no doubt others still find it cold though. Can't really win..

 

[Failed Unit]

If you are lucky enough to have a tunnel on the route, no problem they close themselves.

 

[SHD]

We used to have in Parisian buses a very old-world politeness reminder by the windows, written in deliciously precious French:
"En cas de désaccord entre voyageurs, priorité est donnée à celui qui souhaite fermer la fenêtre"
Should a disagreement occur between passengers, precedence shall be given to the person who wishes to close the window.

 

[Howardh]

We used to have in Parisian buses a very old-world politeness reminder by the windows, written in deliciously precious French:
"En cas de désaccord entre voyageurs, priorité est donnée à celui qui souhaite fermer la fenêtre"
Should a disagreement occur between passengers, precedence shall be given to the person who wishes to close the window.

I like that!!

It has been noted that it's pointless bothering to open/close windows on Pacers as any benefit will be lost with the gale through the doors and gaps in the roof!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

That and stickers relating to reservation policy (if not placed they do / don't apply) need to be added to all UK trains.

 

[thewaistcoat]

We used to have in Parisian buses a very old-world politeness reminder by the windows, written in deliciously precious French:
"En cas de désaccord entre voyageurs, priorité est donnée à celui qui souhaite fermer la fenêtre"
Should a disagreement occur between passengers, precedence shall be given to the person who wishes to close the window.

Oh, I wish. I've been driven out of carriages by women of a certain age opening nearly all the windows (even in the middle of winter), sitting themselves just out of the subzero breeze and snarling at anyone that remotely got near to a window. Big coat and scarf doesn't even help in that situation.
One thing the 700s are good for - no window arguments.

 

[Groningen]

There no windows in trains of the Netherlands.

 

[SHD]

There no windows in trains of the Netherlands.

That's Dutch pragmatism for you!

 

[Ianno87]

My 'rule' is that the person sat underneath the window shall be the one with ultimate discretion as to whether it is open or closed (even though it vents pretty much everybody apart from themselves), but should be reasonable in considering polite requests to open it if shut, or shut it if open.

What I've never understood is those who board a train and immediately open/close every window going to suit their own requirements.

.
One thing the 700s are good for - no window arguments.

I like 387s (vice 365s) on the Kings Lynn run for this reason. So many people insisted on shutting the windows on a hot day because of the noise* through the GN tunnels, leaving the rather pathetic air conditioning (more like half-heartedly blowing lukewarm air around) to try and cope.

*I personally loved the noise, breeze through the train and smell of burning brakes after a hearty run, but appreciate it's not everyone's cup of tea!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I relish the story , from a long departed - proper Cockney chap - who as an ex loco fireman in the 1940's feared no-one. Circa 1970.

Coming back one evening on a terribly overheated and smoky no corridor coach on the Southend line - all seats taken - he obliged the only lady passenger by cracking the drop window open about a couple of inches , (at her request) , some bowler hatted individual then slammed the window shut and said something like "none of that - thank you".

So Ken , gave it a minute - planned his move , and then scooped up the Evening Standards / News's of the other passengers , dropped the window fully and flung their reading material out into the darkness. Sat back and awaited events. He could out glare anyone - a very fair man with excellent principles , though one would not wish to cross him in a disciplinary hearing.

Nothing happened. They were in a state of considerable shock. He alighted at Rayleigh with a few choice words of advice to the compartment and tipped his trilby to the lady. Quality.

Do not miss the Thameslink 319's for the abrupt slamming of the window vents in Elstree Tunnel when something on the opposing fast lines stormed past. As someone else said - 700's are so much better in that respect.

 

[Adlington]

There no windows in trains of the Netherlands.

You certainly meant "no windows which can be opened", didn't you?

 

[Bertie the bus]

My 'rule' is that the person sat underneath the window shall be the one with ultimate discretion as to whether it is open or closed (even though it vents pretty much everybody apart from themselves), but should be reasonable in considering polite requests to open it if shut, or shut it if open.

What I've never understood is those who board a train and immediately open/close every window going to suit their own requirements.

If I’m the first person on the carriage I will close open windows unless it is properly hot. In the spring and summer open windows can make the journey very unpleasant for me due to hay fever.

If I’m not the first person on the carriage then my rule is the same as yours - the person sat directly next to it decides. If somebody opens “my” window without having the manners to ask it will almost always get closed again even if it is 90 degrees outside.

 

[njamescouk]

blessed are the class 150s.

otherwise it's a case of jfdi no questions asked.

 

[Calthrop]

You certainly meant "no windows which can be opened", didn't you?

If that was not Groningen's meaning, I'm not going on a railroving tour of the Netherlands...

 

[Groningen]

Yes i mean that there are windows, but not be opened. Maybe only on the push pull still working Apeldoorn - Almelo and Zwolle - Utrecht. Maybe the picture is too large. Own picture in Zwolle.

 

[SHD]

If that was not Groningen's meaning, I'm not going on a railroving tour of the Netherlands...

Even Forty-and-eight waggons had openable (sort of) "windows"

 

[EssexGonzo]

This is a contentious one.

There are two additional scenarios to look at here.

First, standing up in the door wells is always warmer than in the seating area for some reason. Probably due to the fact that standing up requires more effort. I believe that those standing should have priority. If you're sat down, suck it up.

Secondly, those who've already been on the train for 20-30 minutes, sitting down, have cooled down and acclimatised to the temperature of the carriage. If I've just walked briskly for 15 minutes and hopped on a train (probably standing), isn't my need at least as equal as anyone already on the train? I don't get the "I was here first" mantra.

This is all very easy behind a keyboard, obviously.

 

[Bevan Price]

I preferred the older type of sliding window ventilators in trains and buses, where you could control the degree of opening to suit the weather & train heating conditions. The hopper type opening windows are a very poor concept in my opinion - either fully closed or fully open - so you often get the choice between greenhouse environment or a howling gale -- and even on hot days, you could get someone (usually female) upset that the draught was disturbing their hair-style, etc.

 

[Belperpete]

Ah, the great British reserve. Preferable to shiver/overheat than dare speak to one's fellow passengers. Or worse still, suffer the indignity of being turned down if you do ask. My experience, like Bevan's, is the opposite to waistcoat's, in that it is generally women of a certain age who will demand that the windows be shut even on a hot day because they can't stand a draught.

Secondly, those who've already been on the train for 20-30 minutes, sitting down, have cooled down and acclimatised to the temperature of the carriage. .... isn't my need at least as equal as anyone already on the train?

Yes, but by the same argument, everybody else's need is at least as equal to yours.
Windows, like arm-rests, are shared. To just open or shut a window without asking your fellow passengers is plain rude - particularly to open/shut a window that someone else is sitting next to. And if you just open a window without asking, you can hardly argue if another passenger promptly shuts it again without asking. Generally, if you say why you want to open/close it ("It's hot in here, do you mind if I open the window?") you rarely get refused. Again, the great British reserve, people will rarely argue.

 

[radamfi]

The solution is for all trains to be air-conditioned so the question no longer arises. There are still an uncomfortably high number of non air-conditioned trains running in Britain but that number will be significantly reduced by the end of this year.

 

[Ianno87]

If I’m the first person on the carriage I will close open windows unless it is properly hot. In the spring and summer open windows can make the journey very unpleasant for me due to hay fever.

Yes, of course if you're the only person in the carriage, you are free to do as you please! (in the window-opening/closing sense that is)

Except if you're last off a train on a cold day going ECS to its next service and open all the windows as a prank to the next lot of passengers...

 

[Howardh]

The solution is for all trains to be air-conditioned so the question no longer arises. There are still an uncomfortably high number of non air-conditioned trains running in Britain but that number will be significantly reduced by the end of this year.

Problem with A/C is it can blast cold air at you, not good when you've been standing in the rain, and can be uncomfortable even when dry but sitting underneath; and often (hello, Virgin) it's on full blast and darned noisy, uncomfortable noisy. Wherever possible I try to sit as far away from the main "box" as possible. I understand they can't be altered by the train crew?
The perfect solution would be to look at aircraft, each pax having their individual air flow. Used to be the case on inter-cities? Anyhow, a/c is one-size-fits-all which doesn't keep everyone happy!

 

[jon0844]

leaving the rather pathetic air conditioning (more like half-heartedly blowing lukewarm air around) to try and cope.

The 365s have no air conditioning at all (cabs excepted). It's just air being forced through (and that doesn't always work).

When the forced induction does work it's arguably better than having the windows open, as you can direct air on you. But that then requires the ball vents to work.

Nice as the 365s are, they're NOT good on hot days. Sure, at full pelt and when they've had a chance to bring air in (and you've also cooled down after rushing for the train) they can be fine - but the windows create horrible noise and definitely making it uncomfortable for people in certain locations.

For some reason enthusiasts love the noise almost as much as an old HST engine. I think most would agree that air conditioning and sealed windows are preferable. The air con on a 700 is also loads better than older Siemens stock - it being far quieter for one (almost silent).

 

[bramling]

The 365s have no air conditioning at all (cabs excepted). It's just air being forced through (and that doesn't always work).

When the forced induction does work it's arguably better than having the windows open, as you can direct air on you. But that then requires the ball vents to work.

Nice as the 365s are, they're NOT good on hot days. Sure, at full pelt and when they've had a chance to bring air in (and you've also cooled down after rushing for the train) they can be fine - but the windows create horrible noise and definitely making it uncomfortable for people in certain locations.

For some reason enthusiasts love the noise almost as much as an old HST engine. I think most would agree that air conditioning and sealed windows are preferable. The air con on a 700 is also loads better than older Siemens stock - it being far quieter for one (almost silent).

The 700s have been pretty awful in this recent bout of warm weather. Having rushed to catch a train, I can assure that sitting on the right-hand side heading into London at midday on a sunny day is not a pleasant experience.

I'd take opening windows *any* time over air conditioning, simply on the basis that I'd prefer some flow of air compared to the potential prospect of non-functioning or ineffective air conditioning.

As far as etiquette goes, I'd say it's another one of those things where he who arrives first should get his wish. I don't understand why some people seem to arrive on a lightly loaded train, choose to sit somewhere where others have windows open or closed, then make a big thing of wanting everyone else to bend over backwards to accommodate their own preference. I've found over the years that a small ball of rolled up newspaper wedged in the right place makes any prospect of confrontation disappear, as strangely those who make such a fuss about things will then either stomach it (in which case it wasn't quite so much of an issue as made out to be), or find somewhere else to sit (which perhaps they should have done in the first place)! As people have said, the issue will go away when all trains have air conditioning - we just have to put up with mobile greenhouses instead.

None of this is unique to trains though, there's just as much bitching and contention in your average shared-use office when it comes to temperature. If anything worse as there's less scope for people to move elsewhere if two people want different things.

 

[221129]

That's one of the good things about the trains I've worked, because of the AC I get to set the temp to my preference.

 

[Bevan Price]

That's one of the good things about the trains I've worked, because of the AC I get to set the temp to my preference.

OK for you, but not for the passengers if you choose to set the temperature too high (or low) that the environment becomes unpleasant. Personally I find that sitting still in stuffy, overheated places tends to induce headaches.

 

[bramling]

OK for you, but not for the passengers if you choose to set the temperature too high (or low) that the environment becomes unpleasant. Personally I find that sitting still in stuffy, overheated places tends to induce headaches.

I think it's still the case that on most trains the passenger air conditioning is set by thermostat, and crew have little if any control other then perhaps being able to cut it out.

 

[221129]

OK for you, but not for the passengers if you choose to set the temperature too high (or low) that the environment becomes unpleasant. Personally I find that sitting still in stuffy, overheated places tends to induce headaches.

That's why you have to be sensible with it. If it's warm outside then I'll have it cool inside, if it's freezing outside it'll be warm inside, but at the end of the day it's the staffs working environment and if the HVAC isn't working at all and it's too hot or too cold, the train will be failed.

 

[jon0844]

The 700s have been pretty awful in this recent bout of warm weather. Having rushed to catch a train, I can assure that sitting on the right-hand side heading into London at midday on a sunny day is not a pleasant experience.

While the 700s are fully open inside, the air con units are still separate in each coach so moving further up or down the train can often help.