Sprinter vs Pacer...which would you choose?

[Vulcan]

Yet you like 153s, which are pretty much based on the 142 design. The main difference being that 153s have bogies

In what way is a 153 based on the design of a 142? They are poles apart.

 

[starrymarkb]

Same Basic Bodyshell and structure. The main difference being that the 153 body doesn't have an additional underframe (142s are self supporting, but then married to a separately built chassis), other then that they have sprinter style cabs and other improvements

 

[Vulcan]

Same Basic Bodyshell and structure. The main difference being that the 153 body doesn't have an additional underframe (142s are self supporting, but then married to a separately built chassis), other then that they have sprinter style cabs and other improvements

The same construction methods perhaps, and a design influenced on experience from the 142s, but I wouldn't say they were based on a 142, the differences are so many.

 

[northwichcat]

Yes, they do have toilets, and surprisingly enough they're quite roomy. Unfortunately they're usually the best part of the train.

Most of the ex-FNW 142s have toilet doors that don't shut properly or with a broken lock, but some of them do have running water. Although some of the ex-ATN 150s with Northern are in the same state but then any Northern unit with a sliding push button toilet door seems to be tempermental.
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Exactly why I would lease a Pacer in the circumstances, even though I find the 153's more comofortable to ride in! If the question had been 'Which unit do you prefer?' I would probably have voted differently!

Depends on the circumstances. If your TOC had 30 150/2s and no Pacers and you needed up to 75 extra seats on some peak journeys then a 153 would be a much better option as they are more similar to 150s for maintainence purposes and you could use corridor linkers.

 

[KendalKing]

153. The Pacer was the worst train ever built, until the Voyagers came along, of course.

I sooner ride on a Voyager, then a Pacer any day.

 

[poshbakerloo]

I sooner ride on a Voyager, then a Pacer any day.

smooth ride at 125mph vs thrown around at 60mph...hard choice lol

im not a fan of express DMUs in general tho.

 

[Vulcan]

smooth ride at 125mph vs thrown around at 60mph...hard choice lol

im not a fan of express DMUs in general tho.

Pacer can do 75mph

 

[poshbakerloo]

Pacer can do 75mph

after they have been running down a steep hill for 30mins...:roll:

 

[Lampshade]

after they have been running down a steep hill for 30mins...:roll:

They can hit that running flat out down the Styal Line from Manchester Airport, although nodding about like a Churchill dog in the back of a car, that has no suspension, being driven by Mr Bean, over a cliff, backwards.

 

[Vulcan]

They often absolutely bomb it between Keighley and Shipley on the way back from Morecambe, but I think the Northern drivers probably just enjoy taking the banked corners through Crossflats and Bingley at speed without having to stop. They also get a fair old gallop on the WCML.

 

[Kneedown]

From a Drivers point of view i'd have to go for the pacer as the cab environment is far superior to a 153. Ok, so they bounce a bit, so do class 20's and you don't see many enthusiasts slaggin them off!

To be totally honest, both Pacers AND 153's are a total embarrasment to our railways in this day and age, and so both should be got rid of as soon as possible.

 

[37401]

From a Drivers point of view i'd have to go for the pacer as the cab environment is far superior to a 153. Ok, so they bounce a bit, so do class 20's and you don't see many enthusiasts slaggin them off!

To be totally honest, both Pacers AND 153's are a total embarrasment to our railways in this day and age, and so both should be got rid of as soon as possible.

yeah the small 153 cab looks like a comfy place to work.... I think you lot deserve medals for doing the Nottingham- Skegness runs on them (or more HST work)

 

[yorksrob]

Same Basic Bodyshell and structure. The main difference being that the 153 body doesn't have an additional underframe (142s are self supporting, but then married to a separately built chassis), other then that they have sprinter style cabs and other improvements

I don't see how they can be compared from a passenger point of view. A 153 at least feels like a finished train whereas a 14X still feels like a bus/tin can.

 

[Broken Viking]

T'was a hard choice for me, but I decided to go for the Pacer in the end. Pacers have more pax space, are lighter (I presume), have fewer wheels per carriage (=Less friction, more speed), are a lot more fun to cross Crewe junction in at high speed (Lots of crossovers! ), are a little more aerodynamic, would suit my Ryanair-esque approach to OA TOC operation better, and - Of course - Pacers have much more "spare" space inside which a larger engine could be installed at a later date!

And the correct term to discribe the ride over pointwork is 'exhilerating'.

Personally, one of the things that I want to do before I Die () is to experience passing along the Birmingham, Crewe and Mersey sections of the WCML in a 142 at over 250mph... hock:

...and there'll be loads of spare parts available as the mainstream TOCs get rid of theirs while I'm solidering on, on my open access shoestring!

Exactly! Not only would there be plenty of spares to be had from other TOCs, but just about any Stagecoach or Arriva bus yard would be another potential part source as well...And all of the above would probabally pay us to take the parts off their hands, as it'd save them a ton in waste disposal charges! hock:

Besides, a Pacer can normally be patched up with just about anything and keep running fine...Might explain why most Pacers have a roll of gaffa-tape labelled "Tool kit" stowed somewhere in the cab!

Pacer can do 75mph

after they have been running down a steep hill for 30mins...:roll:

A downhill start is always useful for getting a Pacer (Or any train for that matter!) going...But show me a half well maintained 142 (Or a 140 if there's any of those still out of preservation!) if such a thing exists, and I'll show ye the most frightening way of doing 175mph along the WCML... hock:8)

They often absolutely bomb it between Keighley and Shipley on the way back from Morecambe, but I think the Northern drivers probably just enjoy taking the banked corners through Crossflats and Bingley at speed without having to stop.

That's the way a Pacer ought to be driven, IMO! Straight around corners at the highest speeds possible (Ten point bonus for exceeding the rated speed of the cant angle! hock...No need to worry about knocks and bumps, the suspension'll easily take care of that! 8)

 

[yorksrob]

To be honest, most of those accolades could be applied to a Southern slammer Though I'm not sure how long they'd last at 175mph down the WCML (even dragged most of the way):-

 

[Lampshade]

Besides, a Pacer can normally be patched up with just about anything and keep running fine...Might explain why most Pacers have a roll of gaffa-tape labelled "Tool kit" stowed somewhere in the cab!

The other week I was on a 142 with a large hammer attached to the wall (not a window smasher, a regular hammer B&Q style), maybe that's Northern's answer