Bendy Buses

[Masbroughlad]

I grew up in South Yorkshire in the 70s and 80s. If I remember correctly, SYT were the first authority in the UK to buy bendy buses?

Since then they had a bit of a flourish in many areas, but recently I thought I haven't seen any in the UK for ages. Do First still have the high spec ones in Leeds and York?

When travelling in Europe, I still see many of them in use?

Has the UK fallen out of love with them?

 

[route101]

Last in Glasgow i seen were McGills citaros on 38 . First Aberdeen still have them . Dont see the reason to have them over a decker

 

[Robertj21a]

Plenty in Brighton and at many airports.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Last in Glasgow i seen were McGills citaros on 38 . First Aberdeen still have them . Dont see the reason to have them over a decker

B7LA capacity = 160+
B7TL Capacity = about 90

There's the simple reasoning, the 1/2 in Aberdeen have been dealing with severe capacity issues ever since the E500s replaced the older Artics.

 

[carlberry]

I grew up in South Yorkshire in the 70s and 80s. If I remember correctly, SYT were the first authority in the UK to buy bendy buses?

Since then they had a bit of a flourish in many areas, but recently I thought I haven't seen any in the UK for ages. Do First still have the high spec ones in Leeds and York?

When travelling in Europe, I still see many of them in use?

Has the UK fallen out of love with them?

The First FTRs are all out of service as they cost a fortune to run and had low capacity. The UK never loved them however ill informed comments by a certain politician meant they became even less popular. They're perfect for moving large crowds, Bath university and the Eden project being examples in the South West plus Cardiff in Wales.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The First FTRs are all out of service as they cost a fortune to run and had low capacity. The UK never loved them however ill informed comments by a certain politician meant they became even less popular. They're perfect for moving large crowds, Bath university and the Eden project being examples in the South West plus Cardiff in Wales.

The problem with the FTR was that it was basically a polished turd intended to hide that it was a cheap and nasty bus (not to mention that the driving position ruled out conventional fare collection). A conventional articulated Citaro, give or take the incendiary issues with the RHD variety, would give a much better impression.

 

[LOL The Irony]

There's the simple reasoning, the 1/2 in Aberdeen have been dealing with severe capacity issues ever since the E500s replaced the older Artics.

How on earth are they being filled up? Weren't they removed from Glasgow because they were too empty?

 

[Jordan Adam]

How on earth are they being filled up? Weren't they removed from Glasgow because they were too empty?

The main reason for the E500s moving was Aberdeen's ageing Artic fleet but also the fact they were deemed more viable in Aberdeen.

The 1/2 serve two universities with the Garthdee and Bridge Of Don areas having relatively high bus use, not to mention also going round the outer age of the Seaton area, again a high bus use area. The 1/2 route set up works so well that the route can actually be traced back almost 140 years (1883), while it has been extended at either end over time, the main core has remained unchanged, as i say testament to how well it works. While the service has been cut recently (primarily due to the driver shortages), the 1/2 were operating Every 3/4 Minutes offpeak, and up to Every 2 Minutes at peaks. All that being said currently in the evening peak i have buses on the 1/1A/1B/2 running past my house up to almost every minute.

They did trial our Geminis on the 1/2 back in 2012 prior to them being fully allocated to the 19, however they found the capacity on them far too poor, even on the quieter Bridge Of Don end.

Spoiler: Screenshot

 

[alangla]

The First FTRs are all out of service as they cost a fortune to run and had low capacity. The UK never loved them however ill informed comments by a certain politician meant they became even less popular. They're perfect for moving large crowds, Bath university and the Eden project being examples in the South West plus Cardiff in Wales.

You get FTRs (or whatever the non-First name for them is) in Las Vegas, running the limited stop SDX up the strip. They generally run with a driver & security guard and it’s primarily off-bus ticketing. The all-stop Deuce service is Enviro 500s

 

[Busaholic]

I think City of Oxford Motor Services were the first to operate an artic bus, but it was only a demonstrator.

 

[Deerfold]

SYT bought them before it was legal to use them in fare-charging service so they initially ran a free service.

 

[CODE02]

We have 4 Mercedes Benz Citaro Gs in Hatfield drivers take them over a Decker anyday for the simple reasons

1. It has three doors easier to load/unload
2. It can fit 150+ passengers
3. It has a much better turning circle with the trailer then a rigid or decker does

 

[padbus]

I think City of Oxford Motor Services were the first to operate an artic bus, but it was only a demonstrator.

Indeed they were, as long ago as December 1978. The bus was an M.A.N. which had been exhibited at the 1978 motor show at the NEC where it was used on the on-site P+R. It's use in Oxford was on the Pear Tree-City Centre-Redbridge P+R service which, in those days ran straight through the City Centre via Cornmarket Street. This was before the use of bendybuses had been legalised in UK so no fares were charged. However, it only came into service after the morning peak by which time most users had already bought a return ticket (or had a pass).

 

[David M]

Did McGills (the original) not have artics at one point - I assume early 80s?

 

[alangla]

Did McGills (the original) not have artics at one point - I assume early 80s?

Yes - Nationals.

 

[CM]

Yes - Nationals.

They weren't Nationals. They were Leyland DAB Artics and the only relation to the National they had was that they look vaguely simmilar, other than that they were a completley different and unrelated vehicle.

 

[GusB]

Did McGills (the original) not have artics at one point - I assume early 80s?

I believe McGilll's ended up with some of the former SYPTE examples, although I couldn't say how many.

Yes - Nationals.

As Colin M has explained, they were built on Leyland-DAB* chassis, which had mid-mounted underfloor engines. They used National parts for the bodywork, but the bodies were taller than the National due to the engine layout.

As well as the Leyland-DABs, SYPTE took some MAN artics as well - I think they went to Midland Red.

*DAB = Dansk Automobil Byggeri, in which Leyland held a majority stake.

 

[alex397]

The First FTRs are all out of service as they cost a fortune to run and had low capacity. The UK never loved them however ill informed comments by a certain politician meant they became even less popular. They're perfect for moving large crowds, Bath university and the Eden project being examples in the South West plus Cardiff in Wales.

To be pedantic, there is still one First FTR in public service in the UK - but operated by Go-Ahead! Its used on the route 888 shuttle between Luton Airport Parkway Station and Luton Airport, alongside other ordinary ex-First bendies and rigid buses. The route is off-bus ticketing so its not an issue on this route having the driver in a separate cabin. It must have ended up with Go Ahead, as the route was previously operated by First (as part of the rail franchise).

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I have sometimes heard that bendies are not so popular in the UK because of our small narrow roads. Well, people who say this should see them squeeze through the medieval streets of some European cities, and usually at speed!

 

[Highlandspring]

I have sometimes heard that bendies are not so popular in the UK because of our small narrow roads. Well, people who say this should see them squeeze through the medieval streets of some European cities, and usually at speed!

They were disastrous in Malta for that reason though, weren’t they.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I have sometimes heard that bendies are not so popular in the UK because of our small narrow roads. Well, people who say this should see them squeeze through the medieval streets of some European cities, and usually at speed!

Depends, bendies typically have a far superior turning circle over a standard single decker.

They were disastrous in Malta for that reason though, weren’t they.

Have you seen Malta's drivers?...

 

[AB93]

They were disastrous in Malta for that reason though, weren’t they.

Largely due to totally incompetent driving though, rather than the actual buses themselves.

http://www.focustransport.org/2012/10/arriva-malta-bendy-bus-gets-stuck.html

Arriva has apologised for yesterday evening's incident where a bendy bus got stuck in Qormi Road, Hamrun. It said the bus should never have been there. The bus tried to perform a u-turn and got stuck. In a statement, Arriva said the incident was the result of an ill-judged decision by an individual bus driver.

https://www.timesofmalta.com/articl...have-seen-sense-over-bendy-bus-menace-.455300

One of Malta’s bendy buses trying to turn on a roundabout. Photo: Chris Sant Fournier

 

[Jordan Adam]

Largely due to totally incompetent driving though, rather than the actual buses themselves.

http://www.focustransport.org/2012/10/arriva-malta-bendy-bus-gets-stuck.html

https://www.timesofmalta.com/articl...have-seen-sense-over-bendy-bus-menace-.455300

"Have you seen Malta's drivers?... "

I rest my case! :P

 

[Highlandspring]

A lot - if not most - of the old drivers left or retired when the Maltese Government forced the traditional vehicles off the road. Arriva brought over some drivers from the UK and made up the balance with local new recruits who were... not great. Of course the standard of driving in Malta is pretty gash generally!

 

[VioletEclipse]

A lot - if not most - of the old drivers left or retired when the Maltese Government forced the traditional vehicles off the road. Arriva brought over some drivers from the UK and made up the balance with local new recruits who were... not great. Of course the standard of driving in Malta is pretty gash generally!

That explains it, thanks. Also first generation Citaros aren't exactly the most modern buses nowadays, but still an improvement I suppose.

 

[Robertj21a]

That explains it, thanks. Also first generation Citaros aren't exactly the most modern buses nowadays, but still an improvement I suppose.

They needed something more sizeable for the massive loads (for Sliema in particular). At the time they weren't all that old and had a sizeable impact on the key routes. They were let down by the appalling roads, poor maintenence and the generally poor driving standards on the island.

 

[Esker-pades]

It's worth listening to Mark Steel's in Town. He does a great bit on Malta's bendy busses. Start at about 08:00.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0002mfr

 

[Jordan Adam]

It's worth listening to Mark Steel's in Town. He does a great bit on Malta's bendy busses. Start at about 08:00.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0002mfr

Good bit for comedic purposes, but not factually, the issue with fires had nothing to do with outside temperature and as i've already said artics are actually pretty manoeuvrable. Many drivers here prefer the B7LAs over many other types in the fleet. Of course they were unsuitable for Malta, but most things are!

People seem to like the jump the "artics are awful and pointless" band wagon, despite many never actually being on them.

 

[dazzler]

To be pedantic, there is still one First FTR in public service in the UK - but operated by Go-Ahead! Its used on the route 888 shuttle between Luton Airport Parkway Station and Luton Airport, alongside other ordinary ex-First bendies and rigid buses. The route is off-bus ticketing so its not an issue on this route having the driver in a separate cabin. It must have ended up with Go Ahead, as the route was previously operated by First (as part of the rail franchise).

---

I have sometimes heard that bendies are not so popular in the UK because of our small narrow roads. Well, people who say this should see them squeeze through the medieval streets of some European cities, and usually at speed!

York have Citaros on Park&Ride services (and have had for years) without any problems in the city centre. In fact, York was the first location that First introduced the FTR - on my local route, the number 4, which at the time ran from the west side of the city all the way through the centre to the University.

The FTR was initially introduced with an on-board ticket machine. These didn't cope very well with the road vibration and were **very** temperamental - randomly not accepting some £1 coins, but quite happy with others. Eventually the machines were ripped out and replaced with conductors, which sped up boarding no end, especially when swallowing a crowd of around 100 students per bus at Uni kicking out time!

Funnily enough, after a couple of years the FTRs stopped working Sundays and evenings and were substituted by normal single deckers, still with a conductor! I suppose it seemed reasonable to management!