EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[jellybaby]

You voted to make yourself and others worse off?

I'd vote in a general election to make myself worse off every time if the there is a candidate campaigning to tax higher rate earners, like me, more to pay for services like Sure Start on the ballot paper.

 

[Puffing Devil]

SEE, you stuck up. im not old, im the youth and what opportunities!???? No one care about us before..

You've lost the right to travel and work in the other 27 nations without needing a visa.

If you were going to university you've lost the chance to participate in many EU funded research activities.

You've lost the opportunity to work for many of the international organisations that base themselves in the UK purely because of it's membership of the EU.

I could go on, though that's maybe too stuck up for you.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I'd vote in a general election to make myself worse off every time if the there is a candidate campaigning to tax higher rate earners, like me, more to pay for services like Sure Start on the ballot paper.

So would I. Your examples redistributes wealth with positive benefits.

A vote to leave the EU has no positive benefits, other than for a few disaster capitalists who won't be funding any Sure Start centres any time soon. In fact, no-one will as the country enters a recession.

 

[swt class 450]

Only a very tiny percentage of people have actually used their right to work or study or live in another EU/EFTA/EEA country. And we will not lose that opportunity. It will just mean that you will have to get a visa or permit if you wish to work or study or live in another EU/EFTA/EEA country. So it's not like they are banning us. Many people from other countries (even western countries like USA / Canada / Australia / New Zealand and many others) work in the EU/EFTA/EEA countries. All it means it that you will have to go to an embassy and have an interview and fill out some papers and pay a fee and they will then give you your visa or permit to work or study or live in these EU/EFTA/EEA countries. Remember they are not banning us.

 

[overthewater]

You've lost the right to travel and work in the other 27 nations without needing a visa.

If you were going to university you've lost the chance to participate in many EU funded research activities.

You've lost the opportunity to work for many of the international organisations that base themselves in the UK purely because of it's membership of the EU.

I could go on, though that's maybe too stuck up for you.

I lost something I never had. We have not lost the right to travel, people can still go to spain for their holidays, After £27

Where? I and many other dont see any of these... If you haven't notice youth unemployment is worse in many other nations.

 

[jellybaby]

All it means it that you will have to go to an embassy and have an interview and fill out some papers and pay a fee and they will then give you your visa or permit to work or study or live in these EU/EFTA/EEA countries.

Maybe. Or maybe not, we don't know.

You can't just go and live/work/study in most of the world, you have to apply for a visa and they say yes if you meet whatever the rules are which might include having the skills they want, sufficient education and enough money. Right now I can decide to go and live in elsewhere in the EU and be a cleaner if I want without having to ask anyone's permission.

 

[radamfi]

It will just mean that you will have to get a visa or permit if you wish to work or study or live in another EU/EFTA/EEA country.

Is it really so simple as filling in a form and paying a few quid, meaning that anyone who wants to go can do so? What if you want to retire in a country that doesn't have a retirement visa?

 

[overthewater]

You voted to make yourself and others worse off? To limit the opportunities for the youth of the country? Your choice. I am beyond rage at the selfishness or stupidity..

Yet people voted tory for the past three elections, I surprised people were hoodwinked and to make them self and others worse off......... but I am NOT beyond rage at the selfishness or stupidity of those voters... I accepted the vote

 

[WelshBluebird]

I lost something I never had. We have not lost the right to travel, people can still go to spain for their holidays, After £27

Where? I and many other dont see any of these... If you haven't notice youth unemployment is worse in many other nations.

Just because you never used those rights it doesn't mean other people haven't.

I have a friend who did one year of his university language course studying history at an Italian university.
Another friend who specialised in EU law during his Law degree and is now doing a PHD and working at a Dutch university (who met his German gf out there and he is now seriously considering giving up his British Citizenship because of this mess).
Yet another friend who is from Portugal who now lives here after coming to the UK for university. She and her British boyfriend visit Amsterdam (where some of their friends live) and Portugal fairly often.
I work for a global company who have offices dotted around Europe, some of my colleagues went to a Front End Web Development conference in Amsterdam last week at a moments notice.
Another colleague is originally from Germany, and whilst he has lived in Britain most of his life still has close connections out there where he spends a lot of his holiday time.
Another friend's parents now live in France and he is able to pop over to visit them at the drop of a hat without having to worrying about things like Visa's (or Visa waivers).

All of these things are either made possible or made easier by us being in the EU.

To give you a counter example of what we could be facing, one of my companies offices is in Eastern Europe. We had one of the employees from there come over to work at our office for a couple of weeks a few months ago. In contract to things within the EU, we had to organised a Visa for him and wait for that to get processed. When we then wanted him to spend a further week here, he had to return home whilst the extension was processed. So not impossible with Visa's in place, but it certainly adds unnecessary faff!

 

[Esker-pades]

Only a very tiny percentage of people have actually used their right to work or study or live in another EU/EFTA/EEA country. And we will not lose that opportunity. It will just mean that you will have to get a visa or permit if you wish to work or study or live in another EU/EFTA/EEA country. So it's not like they are banning us. Many people from other countries (even western countries like USA / Canada / Australia / New Zealand and many others) work in the EU/EFTA/EEA countries. All it means it that you will have to go to an embassy and have an interview and fill out some papers and pay a fee and they will then give you your visa or permit to work or study or live in these EU/EFTA/EEA countries. Remember they are not banning us.

The 50 members of the Wind Band who are going on the tour don't have 2 days to make the round trip to London to be interviewed by Belgium. Nor can we really waste a day if we can do the interview closer to home. It's all additional hoops to jump through, more time wasted etc. This is being replicated across the country. The situation has been made objectively worse by leaving the EU.

What positive outcomes of Brexit makes these extra complications worth it?

 

[overthewater]

All I see is people who never cared about the left behinds until now, releasing what the rest of us have to put up with for years. Were NOT HAPPY... The fact people still dont get this is strange. EU never listened, UK government never listened. EU were like there is nothing wrong and that was the last straw.

I do believe Brexit could be stop with mins. This could all be resolved pretty fast if the EU & UK government both admitted there are major problems, there are sorry and we do need changes in some form, let see what we can do to fix this. Neither will because it would make them weak and were in the wrong in the first place...

 

[WelshBluebird]

All I see is people who never cared about the left behinds until now, releasing what the rest of us have to put up with for years. Were NOT HAPPY... The fact people still dont get this is strange. EU never listened, UK government never listened. EU were like there is nothing wrong and that was the last straw.

I do believe Brexit could be stop with mins. This could all be resolved pretty fast if the EU & UK government both admitted there are major problems, there are sorry and we do need changes in some form, let see what we can do to fix this. Neither will because it would make them weak and were in the wrong in the first place...

1. So your opinion seems to be well we are "left behind" so screw everyone else. Is that right?
2. You are right to blame the EU government for situations where people are left behind. But I fail to see what on earth the EU has to do with it.

 

[overthewater]

1. So your opinion seems to be well we are "left behind" so screw everyone else. Is that right?
2. You are right to blame the EU government for situations where people are left behind. But I fail to see what on earth the EU has to do with it.

1: maybe people were left with no other option?
2: you have made a minor mistake, can you please clarify

 

[Puffing Devil]

Yet people voted tory for the past three elections, I surprised people were hoodwinked and to make them self and others worse off......... but I am NOT beyond rage at the selfishness or stupidity of those voters... I accepted the vote

People vote Tory for their own benefit. They never voted Tory believing that they, and the country, would be worse off.

You voted knowingly to bring down the country.

 

[WelshBluebird]

1: maybe people were left with no other option?
2: you have made a minor mistake, can you please clarify

1. By voting differently in general elections? By proposing strikes, or another action? Certainly not by saying "F you" to some of us who have been lucky enough to benefit from the EU.
2. Obviously I mean blame UK government , as that is the government that has made every decision in the chain that has ended up with some people being left behind. Hell, by voting to leave the EU you are making it MORE likely others will be left behind because a fairly right wing Tory government will take any chance it can get to remove worker protections and various regulations that they can get away with (why else were some leavers quoted as saying they wanted a bonfire of red tape?).

 

[overthewater]

You voted knowingly to bring down the country.

There said that before and it didn't happen in 2016.

 

[overthewater]

See this is what it boils down to neither side can deal with the other side options or opinions are. No matter what either side says people will dig in, because people feel like there values are being questioned and ripped apart. Its like like if you vote A, then People who Voted B are stupid no matter what and that goes both ways. Its not right, I have yet to complain about anyone that voted to stay in..

Here is the thing this prove unreversey there is a major problem in this country and no one can deal with the other side. I still do believe Brexit could be stop with mins.... until people sit down appect there are some major issues that need to be resolved this isn't going to happen.......................519 page prove that.


No one what to understand the other side.. Maybe I dont believe in everything I said just now, maybe I only believe in parts, maybe I was trying to highlight points about people's replies..... calling people names??? its not right and continues to prove why this mess willl never get fixed.

 

[jellybaby]

there is a major problem in this country and no one can deal with the other side

Got that but... how does Brexit help?

We have had 2 and a half years of ignoring what I think are the real issues. Things like austerity decimating services, what is the plan for the NHS, are we going to tackle climate change or not etc. Brexit addresses none of those.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Only a very tiny percentage of people have actually used their right to work or study or live in another EU/EFTA/EEA country. And we will not lose that opportunity. It will just mean that you will have to get a visa or permit if you wish to work or study or live in another EU/EFTA/EEA country. So it's not like they are banning us. Many people from other countries (even western countries like USA / Canada / Australia / New Zealand and many others) work in the EU/EFTA/EEA countries. All it means it that you will have to go to an embassy and have an interview and fill out some papers and pay a fee and they will then give you your visa or permit to work or study or live in these EU/EFTA/EEA countries. Remember they are not banning us.

Have a look at the new UK guidelines. £30K minimum wage before you can apply for a visa. There's nothing to stop the EU applying the same criteria to UK workers. We don't know, though I would expect some reciprocity.

How many from the UK have lived or worked in the EU? Do you know or is "a very tiny percentage" pulled out of your hat?

 

[overthewater]

See you still being snippy and bad tempard

 

[cjp]

No not no mechanism but no quota until the EU established limits.

I do not think we have established we get more back from the EU than we put in bot sides accept we paid more into the EU than we got back by way of grants ans subsidies.
What we did get was a certain harmonisation of regulations whether that was good overall as it meant our Parliament was then limited in what it could change I am not going to go into.

 

[EM2]

All I see is people who never cared about the left behinds until now, releasing what the rest of us have to put up with for years. Were NOT HAPPY...

But you've not explained why whatever it is that you were not happy about is the fault of the EU, and how being out of the EU will fix it.

The fact people still dont get this is strange. EU never listened, UK government never listened. EU were like there is nothing wrong and that was the last straw.

The EU gave us more opt-outs than (almost?) any other member state.

 

[Puffing Devil]

See you still being snippy and bad tempard

Challenge and oppose. Don't insult.

 

[overthewater]

But you've not explained why whatever it is that you were not happy about is the fault of the EU, and how being out of the EU will fix it.

The EU gave us more opt-outs than (almost?) any other member state.

For starters the 5% on vat on heating which couldn't be scraped back in 1997.

Secondly. I dont beleive their listern to people or like being in the wrong.

 

[Howardh]

All I see is people who never cared about the left behinds until now, releasing what the rest of us have to put up with for years. Were NOT HAPPY... The fact people still dont get this is strange. EU never listened, UK government never listened. EU were like there is nothing wrong and that was the last straw.

I do believe Brexit could be stop with mins. This could all be resolved pretty fast if the EU & UK government both admitted there are major problems, there are sorry and we do need changes in some form, let see what we can do to fix this. Neither will because it would make them weak and were in the wrong in the first place...

I take it you have voted in every Euro election? Maybe if you're so disgruntled you actually stood for election yourself? Maybe you wrote endless letters to the European Commission about their shortfallings, maybe areas which negatively impacted your life?
The EU DOES listen. It gave us rebates. It gave us vetos. It gave us opt-outs. It gave us workers and consumer rights. It gave us courts to go to when we have been shafted by our own government. It even allowed us to vote to leave. All you are doing is sounding like an editorial of the Daily Mail, all heart and no substance. The EU has had zero negative affect on your life, and if you didn't use the benefits then fine, don't take them off those who do.

 

[Howardh]

For starters the 5% on vat on heating which couldn't be scraped back in 1997.

Secondly. I dont beleive their listern to people or like being in the wrong.

You seriously think any UK government is gonna drop that?? Do us a favour....in fact I would wager the Tories will gradually put it up like insurance and airline tax. They will call it "green".

 

[swt class 450]

The big question we have to ask is what is good about the EU? What has the EU ever done for us? Whenever i ask anybody the only thing they can say is the freedom of movement and the right to easily work or study or live in any EU/EFTA/EEA country without a visa or permit! But nobody seems to be able to say anything else positive! So are people really wanting to remain in the EU just for that one reason? Have people actually thought about all the negative things about the EU?

 

[Howardh]

What has the EU ever done for us?

Funny you should ask
https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...ne-for-you-quite-a-lot-actually-a7097636.html
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/13-things-european-union-gave-8257113
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6455879.stm
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/11/whats-eu-ever-done-us
https://www.myeu.uk

At last we may get a debate on Britain's relationship with Europe (Leader, 11 January). What did the EEC/EU ever do for us? Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade; structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline; clean beaches and rivers; cleaner air; lead free petrol; restrictions on landfill dumping; a recycling culture; cheaper mobile charges; cheaper air travel; improved consumer protection and food labelling; a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives; better product safety; single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance; break up of monopolies; Europe-wide patent and copyright protection; no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market; price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone; freedom to travel, live and work across Europe; funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad; access to European health services; labour protection and enhanced social welfare; smoke-free workplaces; equal pay legislation; holiday entitlement; the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime; strongest wildlife protection in the world; improved animal welfare in food production; EU-funded research and industrial collaboration; EU representation in international forums; bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO; EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty; European arrest warrant; cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence; European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa; support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond; investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.

Oh, and the small matter of 60 years of peace so you haven't had to send your kids off to be slaughtered.

 

[Puffing Devil]

No not no mechanism but no quota until the EU established limits.

Which we would have introduced ourselves to preserve our own fish stocks, much as Iceland did to preserve their own fishing grounds.

I do not think we have established we get more back from the EU than we put in bot sides accept we paid more into the EU than we got back by way of grants ans subsidies.
What we did get was a certain harmonisation of regulations whether that was good overall as it meant our Parliament was then limited in what it could change I am not going to go into.

The UK’s net budgetary contribution is a small net cost relative to the benefits: Have a look at the consider, measured and calculated view of the CBI: http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-a...t-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/

 

[Puffing Devil]

Have people actually thought about all the negative things about the EU?

Name one and how it has negatively affected you.