EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[overthewater]

Until remoaners etc fully understand people underlying concerns and why people voted leave instead of calling people bigots, racist and xenophobes this problem will get resolved and in fact its the remain people that are making its more toxic

 

[ComUtoR]

calling people bigots, racist and xenophobes this problem will get resolved and in fact its the remain people that are making its more toxic

Pot, meet Kettle.

THose Labour MP's are RED tories, and to get into bed with Anna Soubry is a disgree, that cow still say George osborne was a great Chancellor, yea right he double the national debt, he spent more than Labour ever did, and pushed throw £12billion welfare cuts while pushing more tax cuts.. Lets not forget he was booed at the Olympics

 

[overthewater]

How? My point anna soubry stand, how is it - " bigoted, racisted and xenophobe"

Im not "intolerant towards those holding different opinions." I'm just disgusted, she keeps on saying the tories are morden, and compassionate, yet she's happy to continue pushing these hard line cuts which are just nothing more than political ideology. Two faced, in many respects.

Saying the national debt has double is also none of the above.

 

[VauxhallandI]

A general election is a different thing to a referendum which was about a single issue. Completely different.

Take the last general election, I would've been in the 'ignored' percentage. Do we ask the Tories to put down several policies, (say A,B,C) and then get the public to vote on it? Like everyone else I voted and in the end my choice of party lost.
That's democracy.

Quite how you think the 48% minority have been ignored is beyond me. You had your vote and lost.
There's been a significant amount of airtime and commons time given to those who want to remain & have a second vote. Hardly ignored.

Does the two years of arguments and the fact we have 519 odd pages on here not inform you that it isn't a "single issue"? Beggars belief.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Until remoaners etc fully understand people underlying concerns and why people voted leave instead of calling people bigots, racist and xenophobes this problem will get resolved and in fact its the remain people that are making its more toxic

Can we avoid using remoaner please? Just because some remain supports call all brexiteers bigots/racist/xenophobes does not mean it is okay to do the same back and insult all remainers.

 

[ComUtoR]

How?

What has upset me from the second the result was announced is the constant name calling and vitriol coming from both sides. Your blatant Pot, Kettle moment is very much you calling out others for insults and yet handing out insults in the same sentence and taking direct aim at Ms Soubry by calling her a 'cow'

 

[jellybaby]

I don't have much time for our MP but despite him being a remainer, he's voted in a way which best represents his constituents wishes during the 2016 vote.

My MP was a prominent leave campaigner despite the vote in the constituency being to remain. By your argument they have failed to represent their constituents.

 

[jellybaby]

You just have to go the embassy with your passport

Last time I needed a visa I 'just had to go to the embassy' twice (once to drop off, once to collect). As someone that works in central London that wasn't a big deal but if I lived in Lerwick I might feel differently and would have probably gone on holiday somewhere else.

Emergency travel is also a problem if you need a visa. People are used to being able to rush to the bedside of a sick relative across Europe with no notice and will not appreciate the delays.

 

[Howardh]

Last time I needed a visa I 'just had to go to the embassy' twice (once to drop off, once to collect). As someone that works in central London that wasn't a big deal but if I lived in Lerwick I might feel differently and would have probably gone on holiday somewhere else.

Emergency travel is also a problem if you need a visa. People are used to being able to rush to the bedside of a sick relative across Europe with no notice and will not appreciate the delays.

I think it was written with a very large tongue in the cheek. Yeah, let's have 2m holidaymakers all descending on the Spanish and Greek embassies because they all want to take a short break, or maybe the French embassy so they can have a day's shopping in Calais....way to go!!

 

[furnessvale]

I think it was written with a very large tongue in the cheek. Yeah, let's have 2m holidaymakers all descending on the Spanish and Greek embassies because they all want to take a short break, or maybe the French embassy so they can have a day's shopping in Calais....way to go!!

Indeed! And I'm sure those countries would relish the loss of tourist income if the EU imposes over prescriptive regualtion of tourism.

 

[Howardh]

Indeed! And I'm sure those countries would relish the loss of tourist income if the EU imposes over prescriptive regualtion of tourism.

Yay, I agree with you on something!!

The ridiculousness of it all is - suppose we HAD to have visas (and we won't but let's suppose) you would have the situation where we would be highly regulated and at some expense, whereas EU's could enter Ireland perfectly freely and wander into the UK without even giving their name. So much for border control - it would be controlling US!!

We need tourist income too, so it would be counter-productive if we put unnecessary bureaucracy and cost in front of those wishing to come here and spend a grand upwards.

 

[Esker-pades]

There is nothing wrong to having to get a visa. I remember many years ago this was required for visiting most countries around the world. But now with so many countries being visa free people have gotten lazy and expect to get in to any country visa free.

Whenever i have visited Russia or Belarus or China or Iran or Turkmenistan (all countries i have visited in the past few years) and many other countries i have had to go to the embassy and get a visa. It's really no problem at all. You just have to go the embassy with your passport and fill out some forms and pay a fee and you will get your visa. Yes it is not as easy as going somewhere visa free but it's not the end of the world. It's not really that difficult. People just expect everything to be easy and free these days.

So even in the rare chance that the EU was to make us get full visas it really wouldn't be a problem. It's not like they are stopping us from visiting. I don't care if i have to go to an embassy and fill in some forms and pay a fee.

1. It makes visiting the EU harder.

2. It will make visiting the EU more expensive. £52 is not an insignificant proportion of the cost of this Wind Band tour.

3. We don't know if we'll need a Visa. If I know that a Visa is needed, I can do something about that. If I know that there won't be one required, I can do something about that. Currently, I don't have a clue. And that's the biggest problem.

4. Going to an embassy is all well and good if you're in London, but quite a problem in other places. Belgium has a consulate in Penicuik. That's an hour each way on the bus for 50 people. 100 additional hours that we didn't have to do before.

 

[Mag_seven]

I don't care if i have to go to an embassy and fill in some forms and pay a fee.

Well I do care - I care that a right that I've had for years (visa free access to numerous countries) is in effect being stolen from me.

 

[Puffing Devil]

There is nothing wrong to having to get a visa. I remember many years ago this was required for visiting most countries around the world. But now with so many countries being visa free people have gotten lazy and expect to get in to any country visa free.

Whenever i have visited Russia or Belarus or China or Iran or Turkmenistan (all countries i have visited in the past few years) and many other countries i have had to go to the embassy and get a visa. It's really no problem at all. You just have to go the embassy with your passport and fill out some forms and pay a fee and you will get your visa. Yes it is not as easy as going somewhere visa free but it's not the end of the world. It's not really that difficult. People just expect everything to be easy and free these days.

So even in the rare chance that the EU was to make us get full visas it really wouldn't be a problem. It's not like they are stopping us from visiting. I don't care if i have to go to an embassy and fill in some forms and pay a fee.

I take it that:

1) You live in, or close to London
2) You can spare a day without work to get a visa
3) Your work doesn't rely on your ability to take frequent trips to Europe and perform some work while you're there?

I frequently work in Europe, live in the frozen north and can't spend valuable working time hanging around embassies for visas.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Until remoaners etc fully understand people underlying concerns and why people voted leave instead of calling people bigots, racist and xenophobes this problem will get resolved and in fact its the remain people that are making its more toxic

Humour me, then. As a "remoaner" who has never yet received a coherent answer in this forum. Please tell me how we will be better off as a country by leaving the EU, and how you, specifically will have a better quality of life?

 

[Howardh]

Until remoaners etc fully understand people underlying concerns and why people voted leave

Give me the major reason why you voted leave.

 

[WelshBluebird]

There is nothing wrong to having to get a visa. I remember many years ago this was required for visiting most countries around the world. But now with so many countries being visa free people have gotten lazy and expect to get in to any country visa free.

Whenever i have visited Russia or Belarus or China or Iran or Turkmenistan (all countries i have visited in the past few years) and many other countries i have had to go to the embassy and get a visa. It's really no problem at all. You just have to go the embassy with your passport and fill out some forms and pay a fee and you will get your visa. Yes it is not as easy as going somewhere visa free but it's not the end of the world. It's not really that difficult. People just expect everything to be easy and free these days.

So even in the rare chance that the EU was to make us get full visas it really wouldn't be a problem. It's not like they are stopping us from visiting. I don't care if i have to go to an embassy and fill in some forms and pay a fee.

You may not care, but most people who go abroad will care.
Just visit an embassy? What about those of us who don't live near London?
What if you need to visit multiple times, sometimes at short notice for work or family reasons?
Have people really got so into this "Brexit at all costs regardless of consequence" mindset that they are not arguing that having to go to London to get a visa to visit France would be a good thing??

It's a misleading report - one needs to look at the detail.
Brits will need to fill in the ETIAS form (e7) to visit up to three months, that's Spain and the whole of the EU + Schengen area less Ireland.
Spain can't opt-out and force tourist visas when the rest of the EU doesn't (as we could simply drive into Spain from France or Portugal!). Other countries don't want the hit on tourists being forced to pay extra and then going elsewhere.
Anyone else who wants to stay longer, work, reside etc will need the full-on Visa.
Think that, unless negotiated differently, was always going to be the case. The EU have specifically ruled out visas for short-term tourists (as long as the UK does) but you are still gonna have the situation where UK's going to Europe will be required to complete at least one form and require a passport with over 6 months validity; whereas any EU can get into the Republic with just an ID card, and they are free to enter the UK unchallenged across that border.
More #brexitlogic...securing our borders makes them no more secure than they are today.

But isn't all that reliant on the relevant details being passed through the European parliament - the issues of that is what the article is talking about.

 

[cjp]

Give me the major reason why you voted leave.

Because we are paying in more than we got back whilst loosing out on our fish and the CAP is not causing more food to be produced.

 

[radamfi]

First of all we were assured that we would still be able to live and work in the EU as now. Then we were told, at least you won't have to get a visa for travel. Now apparently it doesn't matter if we have to get visas.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Because we are paying in more than we got back whilst loosing out on our fish and the CAP is not causing more food to be produced.

Paying in more than we get back: We receive more back in indirect benefits that we do in hard cash
Fish: How, exactly, are we losing fish to the EU. We lost our deep sea fishing grounds in the Cod War. Iceland is not in the EU.
CAP: Which food, specifically? And why does this concern you?

 

[Howardh]

Because we are paying in more than we got back whilst loosing out on our fish and the CAP is not causing more food to be produced.

The paying in is a good point, however we get far more back in terms that aren't tangible fiscal value - indirect benefits such as our freedom of movement, consumer rights across the EU, jobs created here from EU grants and so on. We spend more on the arts and farts than the EU and not everyone goes to the ballet once a month!
Agriculture - you do know the intentions are to bring in cheap foreign non-EU food, eg beef, which will seriously compete against and undermine our farming industry - and don't our farmers get EU subsidies anyhow (anyone in that industry confirm?). As for fish, we lost much ground after the Iceland conflict (non-EU) as alluded to above and I understand we have actually sold our fishing rights (again, anyone confirm?).

 

[radamfi]

The increased economic activity from being in the EU and single market generates wealth and tax revenue.

 

[Howardh]

Edit from my earlier post r/e fisheries - I've done a quick google and it appears I was right;

But it turns out that foreign firms already own a big slice of British fishing rights and will continue to do so permanently. Why? Because British companies sold their quotas. Spanish firms own 88 per cent of Welsh fishing rights and most of the quota from the Bristol Channel to the Scottish border.

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/c...rth-sea-bristol-channel-blue-passports-brexit so that's from the anti-EU Brexpress!! Everything's the fault of the EU.....er, no, actually.

 

[cjp]

Edit from my earlier post r/e fisheries - I've done a quick google and it appears I was right; https://www.express.co.uk/comment/c...rth-sea-bristol-channel-blue-passports-brexit so that's from the anti-EU Brexpress!! Everything's the fault of the EU.....er, no, actually.

But was it possible pre EEC to sell such things as there was no quota to sell?

 

[overthewater]

Humour me, then. As a "remoaner" who has never yet received a coherent answer in this forum. Please tell me how we will be better off as a country by leaving the EU, and how you, specifically will have a better quality of life?

We never once said life would get better. That the problem so many people have been left behide............. A race to the bottom..

 

[jellybaby]

But was it possible pre EEC to sell such things as there was no quota to sell?

Regardless of regional coordination there needs to be some kind of control of fishing today or there wont be any fish to catch tomorrow. That probably means a quota system unless you have a better idea?

 

[Esker-pades]

We never once said life would get better. That the problem so many people have been left behide............. A race to the bottom..

I frequently remember the Leave campaign talking about life getting better.

The left behind, yes. The question then is "is the EU to blame?". Now, I'm not sure that it is, but it represents the things that have left peple behind.

Even if the EU is what has left people behind (I'm not convinced), then the next question is "will leaving the EU improve the situation?" Not so much about the EU, more about if the UK's leaving the EU will make things better. The current situation demonstrates that the UK isn't going to be wonderful outside the EU, especially now that the Leave campaign members who can afford it are shifting their money and their business out of the UK.

 

[Puffing Devil]

We never once said life would get better. That the problem so many people have been left behide............. A race to the bottom..

You voted to make yourself and others worse off? To limit the opportunities for the youth of the country? Your choice. I am beyond rage at the selfishness or stupidity.

The EU is not to blame, the actions of our elected government was and continues to be a fault. Vote to change things in the UK, but don't blame it on the EU.

 

[overthewater]

SEE, you stuck up. im not old, im the youth and what opportunities!???? No one care about us before.. Calling people doesn't make you look any better.

 

[Puffing Devil]

But was it possible pre EEC to sell such things as there was no quota to sell?

Only because there was no mechanism in place. Who knows what would have happened if we had stayed out of the EU?

We've established that we do get more from the EU than we pay in; that the fisheries have been sold off by our own fishermen.

Where do you see the fault in the CAP?