Lights on Front of Trains?

[northernrail2009]

Ive wanted to know about this for years but why do the front lights on trains stay on all day even when its a clear day with blue skys and also why does 1 light shine more then the other on the front lights?

Ive seen trains with the light brighter on one side then the other.

 

[westcoaster]

Headlights are there preliminary for track workers to see trains approaching and also reflecting off lineside boards not for the driver, trains have night and day lights (day light 2nd mans side- night drivers side) and marker lights (LED'S) most modern trains have cyclopse lights, at the top/middle of the front. And to add most modern trains use halogen bulbs compared to fillament bulbs ( that's why they are brighter) hope that helps.

 

[GNERman]

also it shows the direction of travel in statuins for track workers

 

[Callufrax]

I've often wondered why there's a day/night mode. The UK is the only country that, I know of, does this.

 

[O L Leigh]

Ah, this old chestnut again.

Not all trains have a day/night beam, even where it appears that there is a headlight housing both sides. As I've said on previous ocassions, Cl317/6's have just the one headlight on the driver's side and, until recently, the headlight housing on the secondman's side was empty. These have since been wired up but only for use as an emergency headlight should the main one fail.

However, where a train has both a day and night beam the difference is in how they are set to throw the light. The day beam will shine across the track at the cess so that it is visible to trackworkers but doesn't dazzle drivers coming the other way. The night beam shines along the cess directly in front of the train to pick out reflective signs and other lineside features. In most cases a train will only show one headlight at a time, the only exception I'm aware of (on the NR network at least) are Cl91's and Mk4 DVT's which show both headlights.

Just to correct a couple of other points. Not all trains have LED marker or tail lights, as many still have filament bulbs. Likewise the modern standard for headlights is to use HID bulbs rather than halogens. These are MUCH brighter and have that "cool blue" light.

To come back to the original question, the point of having headlights on all the time is twofold. Firstly it makes an approaching train more visible to anyone on or near the line. The sooner you see a train the faster you can move to a position of safety. Secondly it shows which direction the train is travelling. Again there are one or two rare exceptions in the Rules, but generally speaking white lights means a train is heading towards you while red lights means it's heading away from you.

O L Leigh

 

[DepotCat]

When approaching a train at night the headlights are too bright. They certainly don't need to be as bright as they are for night time use. I've often run up to red signals or into stations unable to look forward due to being dazzled by the headlight of a train on the opposite track. The standard reply from numpty managers is..."It's a minimum standard" and "It complies with health & safety"...Yeah, but it dosn't stop us from being dazzled. I once had a change of aspect and never saw it as a result of not being able to look forward...I only knew about it when the signalman contacted me....So I put that down on a RT3185 form...And as usual got no feed back...Even after I specifically asked for some.
Back in June 2006 CIRAS issued a statement saying they would cease printing complaints about bright headlights because they were getting too many...and therefore there was obviously a problem. "Research" was promised, as was a questionaire for every driver...You've guessed it...Nothing has been done since. It's all been conveniently swept under the carpet. They are banking on drivers not complaining because no driver really likes writing reports...or to mark himself out as a "trouble maker".

 

[MrC]

When approaching a train at night the headlights are too bright. They certainly don't need to be as bright as they are for night time use.

Agree in spades and as windscreens get scratched/hazed then the problem gets worse.

The other thing I personally don't like about modern headlights is that they seem designed to scatter light, which seems sensible as pway etc then have a better chance to see a train.

However some clueless numpty (or, more likely, a committee of numpties) then decided to put the night headlight under the drivers side windscreen. As a result if you're driving a unit with a corridor connection, and therefore sit more to the left, then snow, fog or even heavy rain can reflect light right back into your face and adversely affect your night vision. Normal action then is to switch back to the day headlight until the weather improves.

 

[Kneedown]

Nothing more annoying than a member of the public tapping on your window saying "Do you know one of your headlights isn't working?" GRRRRRRRR!

 

[43021HST]

It might be that espicially if your an express driver and your are hurtling down the track at 125mph you will need to see the track ahead, not just a dim view. The lights must only be for the benefit of the driver. I think to proparly answer this we need an experienced driver to shed some light (parden the pun) on the subject.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

O L Leigh is an experienced driver that has shed some light on the subject.

 

[driver9000]

It might be that espicially if your an express driver and your are hurtling down the track at 125mph you will need to see the track ahead, not just a dim view. The lights must only be for the benefit of the driver. I think to proparly answer this we need an experienced driver to shed some light (parden the pun) on the subject.

The headlights are there to be seen with not to see with, even with the new style headlights you dont see much further than 50-100ft ahead and thats if they are actually pointing at the track Ive had some lovely views of tunnel roofs and embankments

 

[The 158 Man]

Class 91s & Mk4 DVTs have two headlights and two marker lights don't they?

Mind you, they never look very bright these days!

 

[MrC]

It might be that espicially if your an express driver and your are hurtling down the track at 125mph you will need to see the track ahead, not just a dim view.

Not at all At any decent speed no headlight could let you see far enough ahead to be able to stop for an obstruction and lines have curves and embankments along them which can't be seen round anyway. At night drivers use their route knowledge to tell them where they are (as they'd do during the day if driving in snow or fog) and the signalling system tells them how far the line is 'clear'. Headlights don't really add a great deal apart from making it easier to identify lineside objects to back up your route knowledge.

Sometimes bright headlights are useful, such as low speed moves like inspecting the line, or are handy to identify something just before you hit it As stated upthread bright headlights can cause real problems for drivers (eg glare, reflected light in fog and snow).

 

[Old Timer]

The frontal lights serve two primary purposes.

The first is to enable the train to be visible to staff working on the track, as well as to users of user worked level crossings and footpath crossings, especially duirng poor visibility, and the second is to enable the Driver to see the line ahead in situations where he is required to carry out an examination of the line. Hence the way that the beams are focussed.

A further benefit is that it allows track-side signage to be retro-reflective, hence saving the costs of lighting certain signs that previously would have been lit.

Prior to the introduction of headlights it was extremely difficult to carry out an examination of the line, and needed the Driver to be accompanied.

By way of an example, one night many, many years ago, having gone through the section with a class 47, even hanging out the door with a lamp I could not be sure we had confirmed the track clear and had to walk several miles back through the section looking for a body.

By the way a number of very experienced Drivers have already responded Mr klambert. I am sure that you did not mean your post to be read as it can be and you may want to think about saying it a little better ? People might take offence where I suspect none was intended ?

 

[Kneedown]

and the second is to enable the Driver to see the line ahead in situations where he is required to carry out an examination of the line. Hence the way that the beams are focussed.

A further benefit is that it allows track-side signage to be retro-reflective, hence saving the costs of lighting certain signs that previously would have been lit.

Prior to the introduction of headlights it was extremely difficult to carry out an examination of the line, and needed the Driver to be accompanied.

Thanks for making those points OT. I remember well from my Toton days numerous occasions where, on a pair of Class 20's, being required to examine the line at 2, 3 or 4 o'clock on a Winters morn, sometimes up some dark deserted colliery branch, with only a pair of marker lights, equivalent to a couple of candles, lighting my way!

The introduction of headlights has improved things no end, making it much easier for examination purposes, but also for locating the little landmarks that all Drivers use as reference points for navigation, braking points, etc. Sometimes these landmarks can be very insignificant, especially at night. A bridge number, the back of a lineside sign applying to the opposite direction. Approaching Radford Jct from Trowell the braking point for the 35mph restriction over Radford is nothing more than a little pole sticking up from the cess. Were it not for headlights then many of these would be invisible thus causing increased journey times.
As regards the brightness of the modern BMAC headlights, i can only say that they have made a tremendous improvement to nightime visibility on EMT's Sprinter fleet. The older style were often so bad as to be really not worth bothering with. Yes they can dazzle, but if you apply the same technique as outlined in the highway code for when you are dazzled by a cars headlights, ie avert your gaze to the left, then it ceases to be that much of a problem (unless i've got a splitting headache!)

 

[MrC]

Yes they can dazzle, but if you apply the same technique as outlined in the highway code for when you are dazzled by a cars headlights, ie avert your gaze to the left, then it ceases to be that much of a problem

Good points although if you drive a Desiro then looking to the side might not be possible as you've only got a tall narrow windscreen in front of you and no other window (the driver's door window is effectively behind you). Driving a Desiro is like driving a photo-booth

 

[O L Leigh]

It's good advice, but I was once dazzled by a GBRf "Shed" that was still well over a mile away. How long should I be taking my eyes off the road?

O L Leigh

 

[Pumbaa]

Good points although if you drive a Desiro then looking to the side might not be possible as you've only got a tall narrow windscreen in front of you and no other window (the driver's door window is effectively behind you). Driving a Desiro is like driving a photo-booth

I've never got why they didn't put in a side window, like they have in the 185s. I suspect it would be of huge benefit to drivers!

 

[royaloak]

Since when have designers and TOCs cared about drivers seeing anything outside of the cabs.

 

[Vulcan]

Makes you wonder how steam engines ever got to their destinations at night without crashing, with no headlights at all apart from tiny oil lamps, a tiny cab window / wind blowing in your face if you lean out and semaphore signals that again are only illuminated by tiny oil lamps at night. Add to that as well the steam obstructing the view, especially in the last days of steam when engines had steam leaking out of every joint.

I say be grateful for your high intensity headlights and stop complaining about being dazzled

 

[jopsuk]

Vulcan- various reasons, such as (in general) lower speeds, less frequent trains and a higher accident (including fatal) rate I'd hazard.

 

[royaloak]

that would be ROUTE KNOWLEDGE, ROUTE KNOWLEDGE and ROUTE KNOWLEDGE, need I say more.

 

[Vulcan]

certainly was, diesels with large windows in the front and no smoke and steam blowing in your face must have been a godsend for steam drivers.

 

[MrC]

@Vulcan: I suspect your post was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but in their day steam drivers, signallers and, more importantly, their management had a far more relaxed attitude about station overruns, failed-to-calls, timekeeping, drinking and drugs, SPADs, bad routing, delay attribution, general H&S and other things. They had no OTMRs to worry about either and traction inspectors were comparatively rare and would give bollockings to minor or first offences rather than todays rigmarole. Given the things I hear from older BR drivers I think steam drivers would have had nervous breakdowns adapting to the modern regime

 

[Vulcan]

I suspect your post was a bit tongue-in-cheek,

correct

 

[Old Timer]

A steam driver, even a diesel/electric driver would know where he was years ago by the "feel" of the track, and by other means, jointed track, bridges, signalboxes etc. Long sections of continuous welded rail has taken much of this away.

By comparison much of todays railway is featureless to a large degree, but you will find that most modern drivers can still tell you pretty accurately where they are by reference to features on and around the railway.

Regular commuters over a route build up a similar knowledge over the years.

 

[MrC]

A steam driver, even a diesel/electric driver would know where he was years ago by the "feel" of the track, and by other means, jointed track, bridges, signalboxes etc.

TBH, this hasn't changed that much. You still teach new drivers to drive by reference to lineside features and drivers can still get caught out when someone chops down a tree or repaints a house

One real advantage that drivers had in BR days is that they'd have picked up quite a bit of route knowledge before attaining the drivers grade (eg as guards, firemen or secondmen).

 

[RPM]

One real advantage that drivers had in BR days is that they'd have picked up quite a bit of route knowledge before attaining the drivers grade (eg as guards, firemen or secondmen).

A very good point indeed. Today's drivers have to take to the road with far less experience than in the past but face much harsher penalties for making mistakes.

 

[O L Leigh]

All good points. However, you're not always looking out the front to see where you are. You still need to see your braking points and whether anyone is titting about in the 4 foot in front of you.

There can't be many things worse than hearing a loud "bang" and not know what you've hit. It happened to a colleague of mine the other night. A big "bang" then all the brakes came on. When he got down to look there was blood down the side of the train but he'd seen nothing out of the front. An examination of the line an hour later established that it was just a deer, so he was very fortunate.

O L Leigh

 

[TDK]

When approaching a train at night the headlights are too bright. They certainly don't need to be as bright as they are for night time use. I've often run up to red signals or into stations unable to look forward due to being dazzled by the headlight of a train on the opposite track. The standard reply from numpty managers is..."It's a minimum standard" and "It complies with health & safety"...Yeah, but it dosn't stop us from being dazzled. I once had a change of aspect and never saw it as a result of not being able to look forward...I only knew about it when the signalman contacted me....So I put that down on a RT3185 form...And as usual got no feed back...Even after I specifically asked for some.
Back in June 2006 CIRAS issued a statement saying they would cease printing complaints about bright headlights because they were getting too many...and therefore there was obviously a problem. "Research" was promised, as was a questionaire for every driver...You've guessed it...Nothing has been done since. It's all been conveniently swept under the carpet. They are banking on drivers not complaining because no driver really likes writing reports...or to mark himself out as a "trouble maker".

Why didn't you approach your union rep if feel that strongly about it, I find some units with lights that are too bright but never lost sight of any signals as 99% of them are on the left hand side, so to be honest you were looking at the headlight and not the signal