Reading to Dover Priory via HS1

[roadie]

Tickets from Reading to Dover Priory via HS1 are not available, you
can only purchase tickets to Asford Intl depite the train continuing
to Dover Priory. I was advised by both South Eastern and First Great
Western to either take the slow train via Charing Cross/Victoria or to
split ticket the journey.

 

[glynn80]

Tickets from Reading to Dover Priory via HS1 are not available, you
can only purchase tickets to Asford Intl depite the train continuing
to Dover Priory. I was advised by both South Eastern and First Great
Western to either take the slow train via Charing Cross/Victoria or to
split ticket the journey.

I am afraid you have been given incorrect information. This isn't surprising considering the complexity of the fares system that was implemented for HS1.

In short, there are two types of fare valid on HS1, those that have the routeing "Any Permitted" and those that have the routeing "Plus High Speed". Now let me explain the difference between the two.

On the flows from St Pancras and other stations within a relatively close proximity to St Pancras to stations on the HS1 route, there are two separate fares, "Not Valid on HS1" and "Plus High Speed. Obviously the prior being valid only on the slower routes from Victoria and Charing Cross and latter on both the slower routes and the faster route on HS1.

On all the other flows, there has been no change, the Any Permitted fare still remains and this is valid on both the slower routes and the faster HS1 route.

The Reading to Dover Priory flow is one of the flows where no change has occurred and therefore the sole fare on the flow, the "Any Permitted" fare is valid on both HS1 and the slower routes from Victoria and Charing Cross.

If this still continues to confuse you, just reply and I'll try to explain further.

 

[dan_atki]

The Reading to Dover Priory flow is one of the flows where no change has occurred and therefore the sole fare on the flow, the "Any Permitted" fare is valid on both HS1 and the slower routes from Victoria and Charing Cross.

Although, according to the NRG, HS is not a valid map for London Group to Dover Priory, despite Dover appearing on map HS...

 

[devon_metro]

The journey planners don't allow travel via HS1 when putting in Reading - Dover showing no fares available if putting in SPX/EBD as via points.

 

[glynn80]

Although, according to the NRG, HS is not a valid map for London Group to Dover Priory, despite Dover appearing on map HS...

Really, that is wierd considering what is stated within the LESR franchise agreement:

2. Prior to the introduction of CTRL DS, the Franchisee shall modify (and the Secretary of State shall approve the modification of ) the following Flows, in accordance with the relevant procedures set out in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement:

(a) any Flow which permits travel between London and Ashford; and

(b) any Flow which permits travel between London and Gravesend

for which the Franchisee is Lead Operator, to change the route for such Flows to "not CTRL". Fares set on such Flows will not be valid for travel on CTRL DS.

3. For each of the Flows referred to in paragraph 2 above, the Franchisee shall as a condition precedent to the commencement of CTRL DS create a new Flow between the same origin and destination with route "any permitted", and shall set Fares which shall be valid for travel on all services on these Flows, including CTRL DS. The CTRL shall be deemed to be a "permitted route" for the purposes of the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement and the National Routeing Guide, for any journey where the National Routeing Guide permits travel between London and Ashford or between London and Gravesend.

Emphasis added personally

The last sentence states that the NRG should have been updated on all flows where travel between London and Ashford/London and Gravesend were permitted and also include HS1 as a valid route. I can only assume the omission of Dover Priory has been an oversight.

EDIT:

This has actually also been discussed on uk.railway (http://groups.google.com/group/uk.railway/browse_thread/thread/d7c64897fc0fc2d9?hl=en#), where the OP asked exactly the same question. The conclusion was exactly the same:

The problem is Dover. Map HS is not a specified map for London to Dover. IMHO this is an error on the part of the Routeing Guide, but unless and until it is corrected, ticket issuing systems will not route tickets this way. There is no problem for London to Dover journeys, as these are allowed by the through trains rule, and tickets are available, at differential
fares, routed Any Permitted and Not HS1.

 

[mallard]

HS Ticketing is very confusing and there seems to be lots of conflicting information.

SET's site (http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/index.php/cms/pages/view/325) says:

Tickets to or from London which display the 'Any Permitted' route do not entitle you to travel on high speed services.

But makes absolutely no mention of tickets beyond London. Further muddying the situation is the fact that National Rail Enquiries will often tell you to use HS, but when it sends you to a ticket seller, the itinerary tells you to use "Classic" services. Also for some routes, there are "Not HS1" and "Any Permitted" tickets, implying that "Any Permitted" should include HS - despite what the website says, yet for others there are "Any Permitted" and "Plus High Speed"!

Can anybody explain any of this mess? Any chance of some "official" clarification?

 

[glynn80]

Can anybody explain any of this mess? Any chance of some "official" clarification?

There is nothing within the FRPP (Staff Fares Manual) which clears any of the above up.

 

[yorkie]

It's no more of a mess than the current system, which is admittedly a mess, but the point is map HS is a normal map (it's not in special gold lettering which requires a special gold printer) and HS1 is a normal route (it's not gold plated with silver buffers and platinum fishplates and a red carpet isn't rolled out for customers either).

There's nothing special about HS1. In fact the opposite: no catering, no first class. It's quite basic.

If a ticket is routed Any Permitted, then you look up the Routeing Guide (RG) to determine permitted routes and all the permitted routes are valid.

If a ticket is route specific, then that limits you to that route (PLUS cheaper routes).

What they mean by saying "Tickets to or from London which display the 'Any Permitted' route do not entitle you to travel on high speed services." are that tickets to or from London where map HS is permitted are NOT routed Any Permitted, and that any tickets where map HS is not permitted simply are not valid that way because the RG says so, and therefore there is no need for a "NOT HS1" or a "HS1" fare. Clearly this is not the case with Dover so someone forgot to add map HS to the list of maps for Dover to London. That's a mistake, and ATOC make many mistakes.

 

[roadie]

To purchase a ticket from Reading to Dover Priory, visit http://tickets.southeasternrailway.co.uk/se/en/JourneyPlanning/MixingDeck and select Reading to Dover. Although the route states that you should travel from Charing Cross, the ticket will be marked any permitted route, this includes high speed services from St. Pancras.