EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[bramling]

Absolute gibberish. Old age is an indicator that someone is going to die sooner. And no, being older doesn't mean you helped get the country on its feet after world war two any more than I pulled the country up by its bootstraps after Thatcherism.

I really find the moaning about older people to be a rather distasteful element of Brexit. I voted leave, and haven’t changed my mind. I’m what would presumably be regarded as middle-aged. I would still have voted leave had I been given the option to vote when I was in my late teens.

There’s an argument that today’s young (and not-quite-so-young) people haven’t got quite such a good deal compared to the “baby boom” generation, however equally I object to giving decision-making power to young people who in many cases will have barely worked nor paid a penny in tax.

 

[GusB]

Could well be, plus I recall hearing about male suicides increasing amongst young men in recent years due to stress/pressure of society.

Anyway, let us not upset the Mods and please return to EU referendum chat?

It is all interconnected, though. The stresses/pressures of society have been there since the year dot, and generally people are able to deal with them, but recently our society has changed so rapidly with the advancement of technology. We already know that those young people who might have followed their parents into the more traditional industries have a less certain future.

There’s an argument that today’s young (and not-quite-so-young) people haven’t got quite such a good deal compared to the “baby boom” generation, however equally I object to giving decision-making power to young people who in many cases will have barely worked nor paid a penny in tax.

You'd deny the vote to those on minimum wage?

 

[HH]

been looking at Volvo cars today, and I ask the sales man what thought would happen to Volvo car prices.He replied that Volvo were prepared for an no deal situation if it arose.

LOL. You believe anything a car salesman tells you? No wonder you think that Brexit will bring back a golden age!

 

[HH]

I also find the moaning about older people offensive, being a baby boomer who voted Remain. Baby Boomers will not be 80+, which is actually pre-War.

Based on the latest (2017) mortality statistics for England & Wales, the older you get the more likely you are to die - which should surprise no-one - but the differences are probably not as large as some would imagine:

15-19 350
20-24 464
25-29 560
...
55-59 1,420
60-64 1,527
65-69 1,740
70-74 1,881

 

[JamesT]

TBF the "bad news" is all about uncertainty for the future after 29th March. The reports about inflation and earnings are about (recent) past performance. Earnings rising was inevitable due to years of suppressed wages and HMG finally easing back on austerity. Inflation being below 2% would be judged by many economists to be too low and suggestive of an economy near to recession. I suspect your perception of the news may depend on the news outlet that you receive it from.

The Bank of England, the Federal Reserve, and the ECB all have 2% as their target to keep inflation under. Though they don’t want it too much lower. That seems to be the consensus for a rate low enough for stable prices but high enough to avoid the dangers of deflation.

 

[AM9]

I also find the moaning about older people offensive, being a baby boomer who voted Remain. Baby Boomers will not be 80+, which is actually pre-War. ...

Actually, I don't find it offensive when espoused by anybody in respect of the referendum result. It's a pathetic argument that's based on trying to blame one age group for the result. It's true that the demographics indicate that the leave vote was higher in the older age group and that younger voters were more disposed to vote remain. As a baby boomer, the majority of my acquaintances of similar age also feel that the decision to leave was insane. Interestingly, they are not all from the south-east either. Maybe they have clearer memories of life before 1970 that aren't tinted with rose tinted glasses or even citing the EU as responsible for everything that isn't as good as they think it was. I think that the picture that hard-line leavers have painted of how good life was before the UK joined the forerunner to the EU.

 

[Mag_seven]

Heard the phrase "Project Fear Two" used by one of the "no-deal Brexit" ERG brigade this morning when confronted with the facts that business leaders are warning against it.

 

[nidave]

The UK really knows how to win friends and influence people...

LONDON - Chinese Vice-Premier Hu Chunhua has cancelled trade talks with Britain’s Finance Minister, Mr Philip Hammond, after Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson threatened to deploy an aircraft carrier in Beijing’s backyard, The Sun newspaper reported on Thursday (Feb 14).

Mr Hu was due to hold trade talks with Mr Hammond this weekend.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/...q1xxjniizIZycUeXZmzxDqGM0Ug9DpOoTRq5zvDQI8xHk

Considering a lot of stuff comes from china this is not good. Lets see how people spin this to be a good thing. "we buy too much from china" "they need us more than we need them" etc..

 

[AlterEgo]

The 16 year old could be hit by a bus/train, suffer a fatal heart attack, be stabbed to death or shot.

As I said, circumstances. Besides, how many super fit sports players die at an early age? Marc Vivien-Foe collapsed and died in 2003 aged only 28, the same age as Emiliano Sala who tragically died just recently. Matt Brazier (ex QPR and Cardiff footballer) died aged 42.

So..yah...really.

The idea that someone who is 16 is just as likely to die today as an octogenarian is the most flagrantly stupid thing I have seen in this thread. You could not make it up. Congratulations on your achievement.

 

[Modron]

The idea that someone who is 16 is just as likely to die today as an octogenarian is the most flagrantly stupid thing I have seen in this thread. You could not make it up. Congratulations on your achievement.

You do say the nicest things.

Expectation v Reality

The expectation is that an elderly person will die sooner than a younger person. The reality is anybody of any age could suddenly die and that age does not discriminate.

As a Cardiff City supporter, did I expect Emiliano Sala to die in a plane crash? No, I did not. The reality is that he did die aged only 28.

Older people have more CHANCE of dying, yes - undisputed, but fate is not always predictable and there are always variables. There are some younger people who are less fit and active than older people (over-eating, alcohol and drug dependent) and they would no doubt be considered a serious health risk.

Any person, of any age in this country today is at risk of dying - you or I could be hit by a bus/train (the latter would be somehow ironic considering the nature of the forum) or involved in a car or motor vehicle accident. You could be blown sky high thanks to terrorists or just collapse and not wake up.

You'd have to be silly to not consider that life is not always as you expect it to be.

 

[mmh]

Yes, of course anyone can die at any time, but that's not relevant to the bizarre notion that as nasty old Leavers die they're replaced with lovely young Remainers. Not only is it pretty vile, but it's stupid - it seems to ignore that all the existing people are continuously getting older.

 

[Modron]

Yes, of course anyone can die at any time, but that's not relevant to the bizarre notion that as nasty old Leavers die they're replaced with lovely young Remainers. Not only is it pretty vile, but it's stupid - it seems to ignore that all the existing people are continuously getting older.

VERY well put. However, it will upset the narrative with some.

It's also incredibly daft to think that all old people voted Leave and all youngsters voted Remain. The media always want a 'whipping boy' and now it's the turn of the elderly to get the sharp end of the stick. Most insulting and patronising of supposedly 'better' people.

Yeah, a lot of young people will feel let down and that they have no say - well, maybe they should talk with people who for years felt that they were an irrelevance and got treated as if they were some social aberration. I live near Pontyclun and very little has changed in order to benefit the communities around where I live - Pontypridd Town Centre is dying on its backside, Tonypandy and Porth are virtually dead commercially, there are major drink and drugs problems and we now have County Lines to worry about. It's just one problem after another here, but you tell that to people in authority or positions of power and their eyes glaze over. They're alright Jack, you can do the other.

The referendum was the greatest trolling trick (until Mr. Trump got elected using the same methodology) pulled by those in power here - get the people to fight amongst themselves whilst we continue to take more money from them.

You can argue Leave or Remain, Trump or Clinton etc. all day long and it will not make a bit of difference - the real power makers and those who ultimately control the game are the issue, and until you take out the puppet masters (rather than just focusing solely on the puppets) then nothing will change.

 

[krus_aragon]

You do say the nicest things.

Expectation v Reality

The expectation is that an elderly person will die sooner than a younger person. The reality is anybody of any age could suddenly die and that age does not discriminate.

I think the point you're trying to make is something like this:

• One particular 80-year-old isn't neccesarily more likely to die than one particular 16-year-old: it depends on their health, activities, etc.

Which is perfectly true. However, if you're considering a random 80-year-old and 16-year-old, or those age groups as a whole, then it's correct to say that you'd expect the 80-year-old to die sooner, on balance of probability. (Individual cases may go the other way, but over a large sample size, the overall trend will be for the youngsters to live longer.)

 

[Modron]

I think the point you're trying to make is something like this:

• One particular 80-year-old isn't neccesarily more likely to die than one particular 16-year-old: it depends on their health, activities, etc.

Which is perfectly true. However, if you're considering a random 80-year-old and 16-year-old, or those age groups as a whole, then it's correct to say that you'd expect the 80-year-old to die sooner, on balance of probability. (Individual cases may go the other way, but over a large sample size, the overall trend will be for the youngsters to live longer.)

Correct, thanks for that @krus_aragon

 

[Basher]

By closing UK plants, factories etc and moving to elsewhere in Europe.

There's over capacity in the world on car manufacturing. There will be some companies will merge.

 

[Modron]

There's over capacity in the world on car manufacturing. There will be some companies will merge.

As well as the push to get us to use alternative 'greener' technologies.

 

[Basher]

I ask the following question sometime ago. What will the government do to replace the lost duty and Vat on fuel. There is huge amount of tax collected from fuel
What is annoying I'm penalised for having a diesel car, yet there is no tax on aircraft and ship fuel. As a person who prefers to holiday in the UK I get the rough end of the stick.

 

[furnessvale]

I ask the following question sometime ago. What will the government do to replace the lost duty and Vat on fuel. There is huge amount of tax collected from fuel
What is annoying I'm penalised for having a diesel car, yet there is no tax on aircraft and ship fuel. As a person who prefers to holiday in the UK I get the rough end of the stick.

In due course, road pricing will replace excise duty and you will pay by the mile (or km).

Don't buy a pleasure boat. You now have to use white diesel for propulsion in boats just like road vehicles, thanks to an EU directive.

 

[Modron]

In due course, road pricing will replace excise duty and you will pay by the mile (or km).

Don't buy a pleasure boat. You now have to use white diesel for propulsion in boats just like road vehicles, thanks to an EU directive.

How will Road Pricing work out v Excise Duty - which one will cost the tax payer more?

 

[nlogax]

In due course, road pricing will replace excise duty and you will pay by the mile (or km).

Will it? Road pricing used to be the future once, now the future is a ban on the sale of petrol and diesel cars in the next 20 years. Which will come first?

 

[fowler9]

I really find the moaning about older people to be a rather distasteful element of Brexit. I voted leave, and haven’t changed my mind. I’m what would presumably be regarded as middle-aged. I would still have voted leave had I been given the option to vote when I was in my late teens.

There’s an argument that today’s young (and not-quite-so-young) people haven’t got quite such a good deal compared to the “baby boom” generation, however equally I object to giving decision-making power to young people who in many cases will have barely worked nor paid a penny in tax.

Apologies if you found what I said distasteful. I wasn't saying it in relation to Brexit (My bad, off topic) I just meant that the older you are the miles you have left on the clock are probably fewer.

 

[furnessvale]

Will it? Road pricing used to be the future once, now the future is a ban on the sale of petrol and diesel cars in the next 20 years. Which will come first?

How will Road Pricing work out v Excise Duty - which one will cost the tax payer more?

Assuming petrol and diesel cars will be phased out, without road pricing government revenue from motor vehicles would fall dramatically. The details may not have been finalised yet but I wouldn't put any money on motorists being given a free taxride in the future.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

The Bank of England, the Federal Reserve, and the ECB all have 2% as their target to keep inflation under. Though they don’t want it too much lower. That seems to be the consensus for a rate low enough for stable prices but high enough to avoid the dangers of deflation.

As a principle that is fine. The specific issue currently is that the uncertainty arising from Brexit, made worse by the uselessness of the HoC, is dampening consumer spending which reduces inflationary pressure. It is therefore possible, though by no means certain at this point, that the country could slide into a recession purely due to us all tending to keep our money in our pockets rather than spending it thereby generating profits and tax revenues. Whatever happens with Brexit I would expect a government to find simple ways to encourage consumer spending should the need arise.

 

[AM9]

In due course, road pricing will replace excise duty and you will pay by the mile (or km).

Don't buy a pleasure boat. You now have to use white diesel for propulsion in boats just like road vehicles, thanks to an EU directive.

Well that addresses the uncomfortable truth that burning diesel in any IC engine produces CO2 and other noxious pollutants so fuel duty can now be regarded as a pollution duty. That aligns with VED (Vehicle Excise Duty) which is* levied in proportion to environmental impact.
* Or was until the Conservative government decided that low-polluting car drivers were getting away with cheap motoring. Possibly following complaints from their followers with their heavy large engined polluters.

 

[AM9]

Assuming petrol and diesel cars will be phased out, without road pricing government revenue from motor vehicles would fall dramatically. The details may not have been finalised yet but I wouldn't put any money on motorists being given a free taxride in the future.

Any road vehicle with pneumatic tyres leaves particulate matter on the road to the detriment of the health of others, so any replacement for VED will still be collecting money in proportion to the environmental damage that road vehicles create.

 

[furnessvale]

Any road vehicle with pneumatic tyres leaves particulate matter on the road to the detriment of the health of others, so any replacement for VED will still be collecting money in proportion to the environmental damage that road vehicles create.

Apart from which roads still have to be built, maintained and policed as well as cash for other government expenditure.

 

[EM2]

There are now less than a thousand hours until Brexit.

 

[HH]

It seems that the Maybot hasn't heard of the aphorism, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". Either that or Brexit has actually driven her insane.

At first I thought her merely dumb; then I started to have some sympathy for her position, but I've come back to my original diagnosis. It's impossible to sort out this mess and any sensible person would just have chucked the towel in and done a Cameron.

 

[Howardh]

There are now less than a thousand hours until Brexit.

On the bright side, 900 until my next holiday then!

 

[R G NOW.]

Planned end of sale for dino juice-based cars in the UK is 2040. Manufacturers will beat that deadline by a long way.

Certain EU countries - Germany, Ireland and the Netherlands - are setting their own deadline of 2030.

When diesel cars go, will that also spell the end for diesel as well?.

If they get rid of the diesel engine altogether, what's going to happen to train station and hospital stand by generators.