EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[EM2]

Who would have thought? Another vote, another defeat. May's "updated" plan is defeated by 303 votes to 258.

I'm thoroughly confused now. I have absolutely no idea what the Government's plan is, whether they even have one, what the Opposition are doing about it, and the clock keeps ticking inexorably on...

 

[Modron]

Really. Just really?

The 16 year old could be hit by a bus/train, suffer a fatal heart attack, be stabbed to death or shot.

As I said, circumstances. Besides, how many super fit sports players die at an early age? Marc Vivien-Foe collapsed and died in 2003 aged only 28, the same age as Emiliano Sala who tragically died just recently. Matt Brazier (ex QPR and Cardiff footballer) died aged 42.

So..yah...really.

 

[Modron]

I'm thoroughly confused now. I have absolutely no idea what the Government's plan is, whether they even have one, what the Opposition are doing about it, and the clock keeps ticking inexorably on...

Theresa May is currently sat in a chair in Chequers with spoons up her nose shouting 'Wibble!'

 

[nlogax]

Trying to pacify the frootloops of the ERG as well as the staunch remainers while trying to appear strong and determined in the eyes of the EU27 AND trying to get agreement on a deal that no-one actually wants is proving impossible. Whodathunkit?

Related; I'm out of popcorn.

 

[Modron]

For some, that popcorn will be salty.

No Deal is coming...

 

[Howardh]

Theresa May is currently sat in a chair in Chequers with spoons up her nose shouting 'Wibble!'

That's an improvement then. Nice to see she has a plan after all. Wonder if they are Tim Martin's 'Spoons?

 

[Modron]

That's an improvement then. Nice to see she has a plan after all. Wonder if they are Tim Martin's 'Spoons?

Ba Dum Tiss!

 

[fowler9]

With regards to the 'nearly dead', I think that is a bit of a rude comment as these people helped to put the UK back on it's feet post World War 2. I assume that you mean those born mid 1940s to early 1950s?

A moot point, but old age is not always an indicator of that person is going to die soon - a 16 year old is just as likely to die today as an 80 year old, it depends upon circumstances. What about those 'coffin dodgers' who voted for Remain? Guess they don't matter, chip off those votes!

Don't forget that not all young people are EU-lovers either (my nephew is twelve, getting into online blogging, and he thinks that the EU is bad because of Article 13) and that there is no guarantee that Remain would win next time around.

I would also look further afield and see if we aren't already in a paradigm shift politically and socially - empires come and go with the passing of time, therefore I'm not totally surprised. The EU itself might collapse in a few years, we just don't know.

Absolute gibberish. Old age is an indicator that someone is going to die sooner. And no, being older doesn't mean you helped get the country on its feet after world war two any more than I pulled the country up by its bootstraps after Thatcherism.

 

[yorkie]

The 16 year old could be hit by a bus/train, suffer a fatal heart attack, be stabbed to death or shot.

Miniscule chance of any of these happening

 

[Modron]

Absolute gibberish. Old age is an indicator that someone is going to die sooner. And no, being older doesn't mean you helped get the country on its feet after world war two any more than I pulled the country up by its bootstraps after Thatcherism.

I don't agree, but I am not going to turn this into a conflict.

IMO, none of us know when we are going to 'expire', chances are that an older person might go soon but none of us has a crystal ball.

My Aunt is 95 and had to bury both her daughter and had two of her grand children die before her.

 

[yorkie]

chances are that an older person might go soon ....

So this post contained a typo?

.... a 16 year old is just as likely to die today as an 80 year old...

 

[Esker-pades]

I'm glad the debate on Brexit has turned into one about who is more likely to die. Could we make it more topical?

Which one is more likely to die?
1. Nigel Farage
2. Jacob Rees-Mogg
3. Michael Gove
4. Boris Johnson

 

[Modron]

Haha - smart.

Okay...start again...

Just because a person is old, it does not mean that they are going to die any time soon. Similarly, young people can die at a young age or 'before their time'.

Also, I believe that everybody who works and pays taxes should have a say. Sidelining people because of age is discrimination and unhelpful, it is because certain people in society were sidelined and ignored that led us to this precise point in time with Brexit.

The future is what we make it - yes it may be uncertain for a while, but it's pointless crying over yesterday and besides isn't that what some Remainers said to Leave voters?

Myself, I am not an EU fan but also not a fan of politics in the UK... therefore I vote neither Leave nor Remain as I believe that the system of politics and the nature of politicians and who is really their master has to change before anything else.

If I was a Remainer, rather than complain about how bad things are, I'd actually be quite glib and be making long term plans - I'd be convinced it was wrong and waiting for the chance to prove leave voters wrong. By complaining (even legitimately) about things, it just adds fuel to their fires.

Neither side will listen or give an inch, quite sad that.

 

[Modron]

I'm glad the debate on Brexit has turned into one about who is more likely to die. Could we make it more topical?

Which one is more likely to die?
1. Nigel Farage
2. Jacob Rees-Mogg
3. Michael Gove
4. Boris Johnson

Not going there, sorry. Bit too distasteful for me.

 

[Basher]

been looking at Volvo cars today, and I ask the sales man what thought would happen to Volvo car prices.He replied that Volvo were prepared for an no deal situation if it arose. This is what any good CEO of a company would have done.

 

[nlogax]

been looking at Volvo cars today, and I ask the sales man what thought would happen to Volvo car prices.He replied that Volvo were prepared for an no deal situation if it arose. This is what any good CEO of a company would have done.

It's almost like you pride yourself on being deluded. Either that or you have a rubbish salesperson.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/brexit/99602/no-deal-brexit-may-force-porsche-to-charge-customers-10-more

"Porsche is the first car maker to show its hand with a tangible impact of what a no-deal Brexit would look like. Other car makers are understood to be set to follow suit in the coming days, with Volvo being another car maker set to confirm its 2020 model year prices will be 10% higher in the event of a no-deal Brexit."

 

[Modron]

Related to cars, when are the diesel models being phased out?

 

[nlogax]

Related to cars, when are the diesel models being phased out?

Planned end of sale for dino juice-based cars in the UK is 2040. Manufacturers will beat that deadline by a long way.

Certain EU countries - Germany, Ireland and the Netherlands - are setting their own deadline of 2030.

 

[Basher]

It's almost like you pride yourself on being deluded. Either that or you have a rubbish salesperson.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/brexit/99602/no-deal-brexit-may-force-porsche-to-charge-customers-10-more

"Porsche is the first car maker to show its hand with a tangible impact of what a no-deal Brexit would look like. Other car makers are understood to be set to follow suit in the coming days, with Volvo being another car maker set to confirm its 2020 model year prices will be 10% higher in the event of a no-deal Brexit."

The point I was making is all well managed companies will plan for a no deal. Why 10%, some models are built outside the EU.

 

[Esker-pades]

The point I was making is all well managed companies will plan for a no deal. Why 10%, some models are built outside the EU.

I agree. Comapnies like Dyson, for example.

 

[Modron]

Protecting their assets/interest, possibly.

I was talking with somebody I know who works at Bridgend Ford, and Ford are also bracing themselves in case of No Deal. They expect less sales, but some people (maybe in the Leave camp) have said online and in the papers that 'it's because the mode of fuel is changing and people don't want to be left with a car they can't use.'

They have until 2030 to buy a new car... barmy excuse!

 

[fowler9]

Haha - smart.

Okay...start again...

Just because a person is old, it does not mean that they are going to die any time soon. Similarly, young people can die at a young age or 'before their time'.

Also, I believe that everybody who works and pays taxes should have a say. Sidelining people because of age is discrimination and unhelpful, it is because certain people in society were sidelined and ignored that led us to this precise point in time with Brexit.

The future is what we make it - yes it may be uncertain for a while, but it's pointless crying over yesterday and besides isn't that what some Remainers said to Leave voters?

Myself, I am not an EU fan but also not a fan of politics in the UK... therefore I vote neither Leave nor Remain as I believe that the system of politics and the nature of politicians and who is really their master has to change before anything else.

If I was a Remainer, rather than complain about how bad things are, I'd actually be quite glib and be making long term plans - I'd be convinced it was wrong and waiting for the chance to prove leave voters wrong. By complaining (even legitimately) about things, it just adds fuel to their fires.

Neither side will listen or give an inch, quite sad that.

Because someone is old does in fact mean they are are more likely to die sooner. Sorry to break this to you. This holds true at least in the UK .

 

[Modron]

Because someone is old does in fact mean they are are more likely to die sooner. Sorry to break this to you. This holds true at least in the UK .

No need to be sorry at all.

I know what you are saying, and whilst the law of averages is that the older you are the more chance you are that you are closer to 'meeting your maker' my point was and is that age alone is not the stand out factor.

Suicides (an increase with girls aged 15-18 recently according to The Guardian), childhood deaths from cancer, heart attacks, accidental death etc. can and do happen with young people as well. Not being old does not equal immunity from the Grim Reaper.

My point is that if you were to put an old man and a young girl on a stage, in front of an audience, and ask them which of these will be dead the soonest... how can you know for sure? The girl might have terminal cancer, with only a few weeks or months to live and the old man might be fit as a fiddle and live long enough to get a card from Buckingham Palace.

Not all old people are feeble and incapable, I've learnt that lesson a very long time ago.

 

[Mag_seven]

The point I was making is all well managed companies will plan for a no deal

By closing UK plants, factories etc and moving to elsewhere in Europe.

 

[Modron]

Bridgend Ford is likely to be gone by the early 2020s.

 

[dosxuk]

Just because a person is old, it does not mean that they are going to die any time soon.

Depends on your definitions of "old" and "soon". The chances that a 90 year old will die in the next 20 years are a lot higher than those of someone only 19 year old.

Just because some young people die young doesn't mean they're as likely to die as old people are to die old. If what you were saying was true, nobody would ever reach old age! Another way of looking at it is that all is people die, but not all young people die young.

 

[Modron]

Depends on your definitions of "old" and "soon". The chances that a 90 year old will die in the next 20 years are a lot higher than those of someone only 19 year old.

Just because some young people die young doesn't mean they're as likely to die as old people are to die old. If what you were saying was true, nobody would ever reach old age! Another way of looking at it is that all is people die, but not all young people die young.

Fair enough.

As an aside, I would be interested in the mortality rates for the years 20-60, as there does appear to be a rise in people in these ages dying compared to 10-20 years ago.

Back on track?

 

[GusB]

Fair enough.

As an aside, I would be interested in the mortality rates for the years 20-60, as there does appear to be a rise in people in these ages dying compared to 10-20 years ago.

Back on track?

Maybe something to do with the introduction of Universal Credit and the surge in the use of food-banks? (I have no figures - it's just a thought)

 

[Modron]

Maybe something to do with the introduction of Universal Credit and the surge in the use of food-banks? (I have no figures - it's just a thought)

Could well be, plus I recall hearing about male suicides increasing amongst young men in recent years due to stress/pressure of society.

Anyway, let us not upset the Mods and please return to EU referendum chat?

 

[bramling]

Absolute gibberish. Old age is an indicator that someone is going to die sooner. And no, being older doesn't mean you helped get the country on its feet after world war two any more than I pulled the country up by its bootstraps after Thatcherism.

I really find the moaning about older people to be a rather distasteful element of Brexit. I voted leave, and haven’t changed my mind. I’m what would presumably be regarded as middle-aged. I would still have voted leave had I been given the option to vote when I was in my late teens.

There’s an argument that today’s young (and not-quite-so-young) people haven’t got quite such a good deal compared to the “baby boom” generation, however equally I object to giving decision-making power to young people who in many cases will have barely worked nor paid a penny in tax.