EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Howardh]

You should be on the negotiating team. Hell, if you can achieve all that even I could vote remain!

No negotiation needed, it's the exact Norway model, which was lauded before the referendum. All May has to do is ask parliament to accept this, and it's done and dusted.

 

[furnessvale]

No negotiation needed, it's the exact Norway model, which was lauded before the referendum. All May has to do is ask parliament to accept this, and it's done and dusted.

Not quite. Norway is not a member of the customs union and requires regulatory checks. The EU accepts technological checks which would solve the Irish border issue but somehow it is a problem at that location.

Also any trade deals Norway makes, as part of EFTA, are shallower than what the UK would want because Norway is closely tied to the EU regulatory framework and is limited as to what it can do.

 

[Howardh]

https://ibb.co/VpRMYSQ

Table of options for the UK

 

[ungreat]

Pity they are not even more of a minority - but there are reports they are having massive internal fights - so hopefully they wont be long for this earth.

Days to go until Brexit - 48
Alternative Arrangements - 0
Trade Agreements this week - 1 (Faroe Islands)

Actually trade deals still zero...none can be signed by the UK individually until we have completely left the EU.
So we have nowt still
But Brexit is sooo good.. ..if you are an imbecile or xenophobe. Those blue passports will feed you and get your medications so don't worry....

 

[Puffing Devil]

Thought that I would share this that popped up in my FB feed this morning. I'm sure we could all go for this deal......

 

[eotw]

On keeping our fish, the question is do we really want them?

Regardless of the CFP, the issue is that fish in UK waters are the wrong species for the UK market – unless you swap cod & chips for herring & chips. So we need access to EU ports to land our fish (about 40% of UK fish are landed in the EU) – and we need access to North Atlantic and EU waters to catch fish required by the UK (white fish in essence). We will have to enter into some form of CFP whatever the outcome, as has Norway.

I think it’s 75% of the UK fishing fleet is engaged in non-quota fishing, so will be entirely unaffected by whatever happens, while I think I’m correct in saying that the UK fleet has a total quota share from EU waters that is a higher proportion than the proportion of UK waters to total EU waters.

Fundamentally, there is no real replacement for cod or haddock available within UK waters, and while there are abundant other non-quota species, such as Megrim, these can’t replace the fish we traditionally like to eat.

The Brexit response to this tends to be that we will need to learn to eat different fish, but again, that’s not really the message we were sold in 2016.

 

[furnessvale]

On keeping our fish, the question is do we really want them?

Regardless of the CFP, the issue is that fish in UK waters are the wrong species for the UK market – unless you swap cod & chips for herring & chips. So we need access to EU ports to land our fish (about 40% of UK fish are landed in the EU) – and we need access to North Atlantic and EU waters to catch fish required by the UK (white fish in essence). We will have to enter into some form of CFP whatever the outcome, as has Norway.

I think it’s 75% of the UK fishing fleet is engaged in non-quota fishing, so will be entirely unaffected by whatever happens, while I think I’m correct in saying that the UK fleet has a total quota share from EU waters that is a higher proportion than the proportion of UK waters to total EU waters.

Iceland has no trouble entering UK ports with cod that used to be caught by UK vessels, despite a bitter cod war. I see no problem in UK vessels doing the same at EU ports with fish caught by UK vessels. After all, the EU is a reasonable entity, as the UK was after the cod war.
(In case anyone thinks differently, I am being sarcastic about the reasonableness of the EU).

 

[nidave]

Iceland has no trouble entering UK ports with cod that used to be caught by UK vessels, despite a bitter cod war. I see no problem in UK vessels doing the same at EU ports with fish caught by UK vessels. After all, the EU is a reasonable entity, as the UK was after the cod war.
(In case anyone thinks differently, I am being sarcastic about the reasonableness of the EU).

Not quite as simple.. Well it is but the UK is not ready..fish exports from the UK to the EU need an approved Border Inspection Post (BIP) at the port or airport for the fish. Also Fish will also have to have a Catch Certificate and Health Certificate. Not ready for March 29th.

Norway would be already following these rules for any fish sent to the EU - the UK might implement something but it depends on how desperate they are - considering they are going to just wave all goods through Dover.

 

[Modron]

When they were talking about No Deal, I bet these guys didn't realise it meant them.

Sometimes, I wonder if Noel Edmonds could have done a better job!

 

[hooverboy]

Consider an outbound UK shipment to Asia. What happens when it reaches the destination port after March 30, 2019?

shipped on carnet. same as it is already

 

[alex397]

Its very awkward being the only person in my family who didn't vote to Leave. I have to keep my mouth well and truly shut!

Its very interesting living in Kent. Most local schools (including one I work in) are now having meetings with all their staff about the impacts of Brexit. Safeguarding is easily compromised if staff struggle to get in on time - particularly with Early Years children where there is a legal pupil to staff ratio. Staff are advised to plan for alternative routes into school.
No doubt of course, this is all just "scaremongering" - Head teachers just love giving staff extra things to worry about so they can't get on with their job properly.

 

[Modron]

Its very awkward being the only person in my family who didn't vote to Leave. I have to keep my mouth well and truly shut!

Its very interesting living in Kent. Most local schools (including one I work in) are now having meetings with all their staff about the impacts of Brexit. Safeguarding is easily compromised if staff struggle to get in on time - particularly with Early Years children where there is a legal pupil to staff ratio. Staff are advised to plan for alternative routes into school.
No doubt of course, this is all just "scaremongering" - Head teachers just love giving staff extra things to worry about so they can't get on with their job properly.

Quite possibly.

It reminds me about the whole 'Millennium Bug' story of 2000, whereby planes were literally going to fall out of the sky. It's a form of moral panic, in that people in authority want you to be worried and then believe what they say, and it's far from a new thing:

1950s - Don't let your kids watch Elvis Presley, he is corrupting them by shaking his pelvis
1960s - The Mods & Rockers are literally satanists
1980s - Satanic messages on rock singles/albums when played backwards
1980s - Oral Roberts and 'God TV'
1990s - Video games cause users to become psychotic
2010s - The rise of the 'Social Justice Warrior' and the 'callout, threaten and doxx' mentality

I would take what is being said with a big pinch of salt - yes, Brexit may well cause a few problems but in time things will settle down.

I 'cut the cable' a long time ago, and I just want the whole thing done and dusted...roll on April.

 

[jellybaby]

It reminds me about the whole 'Millennium Bug' story of 2000

I spent 18 months analysing, upgrading and replacing systems ahead of y2k, as did thousands of others. That's why there wasn't much impact.

Meanwhile it's impossible to plan properly for Brexit since we still don't know what it actually is.

 

[433N]

1990s - Video games cause users to become psychotic

To be fair, this did actually happen and then the psychotic, paranoid victims went on to vote for Brexit.

 

[nidave]

shipped on carnet. same as it is already

What about the tariffs - no one has any idea what (if any) they are going to be.

Written Answer busts open the post no-deal Brexit disaster awaiting the haulage industry - wasn't this rubbished as project fear?
The DoT only has 984 to give out. That's not even one per firm applying. Over half the companies that requested permits won't get any at all.

The Department received applications for a total of 11,392 permits from 1,991 operator licence holders. Following the application of allocation criteria previously set out to the House, 984 ECMT annual permits have been allocated to operators and a further 2,832 short term permits will start to be allocated by March 2019.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2019-02-05.217018.h

 

[Modron]

To be fair, this did actually happen and then the psychotic, paranoid victims went on to vote for Brexit.

Strange, I thought they turned into Trigglypuffs

 

[cjp]

Gibraltar
This has all gone a bit quiet.
A place where there is a land border with the EU.
Where as part of the EU's proposal nothing can be agreed without Spain's prior agreement.
(Something they just dropped into their negotiating position despite the people of Gibraltar having made it abundantly clear in a referendum of their own that they consider them themselves British not Spanish).
Nothing in the news about this of late.
Something being swept under the carpet by connivance or otherwise with the Press who are having more fun with the border in Ireland?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Its very awkward being the only person in my family who didn't vote to Leave. I have to keep my mouth well and truly shut!

Its very interesting living in Kent. Most local schools (including one I work in) are now having meetings with all their staff about the impacts of Brexit. Safeguarding is easily compromised if staff struggle to get in on time - particularly with Early Years children where there is a legal pupil to staff ratio. Staff are advised to plan for alternative routes into school.
No doubt of course, this is all just "scaremongering" - Head teachers just love giving staff extra things to worry about so they can't get on with their job properly.

I'm guessing you fear issues caused by queues of lorries? If it's not that, it's scaremongering. If it is that, then it probably isn't but mitigation is simple - keep an eye on the news, plan alternatives (as you say) and get up earlier!

 

[Groningen]

Like the wrong kind of snow you seem to have so your wrong kind of fish if i rightfully follow from yesterday. Who will notice the difference if 1 kind of fish is replaced with another with your chips.

 

[dosxuk]

Gibraltar
This has all gone a bit quiet.
A place where there is a land border with the EU.
Where as part of the EU's proposal nothing can be agreed without Spain's prior agreement.
(Something they just dropped into their negotiating position despite the people of Gibraltar having made it abundantly clear in a referendum of their own that they consider them themselves British not Spanish).
Nothing in the news about this of late.
Something being swept under the carpet by connivance or otherwise with the Press who are having more fun with the border in Ireland?

A good part of this will be any Irish Border solution we can actually agree on can probably be used as a starting point for a Gibraltan border. The main challenges exist for both borders, challenges we still haven't decided how to accomplish - namely no goods checks while having different health and safety standards, and no checks on people while being able to stop everyone who doesn't have permission to pass. At least in Gibraltar they have some border infrastructure, even if it will be hell if they implemented all the checks.

 

[furnessvale]

Like the wrong kind of snow you seem to have so your wrong kind of fish if i rightfully follow from yesterday. Who will notice the difference if 1 kind of fish is replaced with another with your chips.

The "wrong kind of snow" affected most of western Europe but it suited the media hacks in the UK to use it as a stick with which to beat UK railways.

 

[cjp]

A good part of this will be any Irish Border solution we can actually agree on can probably be used as a starting point for a Gibraltan border. The main challenges exist for both borders, challenges we still haven't decided how to accomplish - namely no goods checks while having different health and safety standards, and no checks on people while being able to stop everyone who doesn't have permission to pass. At least in Gibraltar they have some border infrastructure, even if it will be hell if they implemented all the checks.

No Gibraltar is nothing like the long Irish open border. The Spanish have been known in the past to make, or try to make, points by closing the crossing point or at least to introduce long delays for those choosing to work on the other side of the border. And that is when both are part of the EEC or EU as it morphed into.
Also they do have the same language as they do on both sides of the Irish border.
The trading structure is different.
Do not treat them as being the same.

 

[Groningen]

There is simply no right kind of snow, rain, leafes or what ever for the complete transportation sector. Too much is never good.

 

[zuriblue]

I spent 18 months analysing, upgrading and replacing systems ahead of y2k, as did thousands of others. That's why there wasn't much impact.

Meanwhile it's impossible to plan properly for Brexit since we still don't know what it actually is.

Same here, in 1999 I think that I only spent about 3 weeks in my flat. The rest of the time was out on the road patching legacy systems. It does wind me up when brexiters trot out this nonsense about Y2K, Y2K went as well as it did because thousands of IT people worked their dangly bits off to mitigate the problems.

 

[SteveP29]

Gibraltar
This has all gone a bit quiet.
A place where there is a land border with the EU.

There is a hard border for entering Spain from Gibraltar, totally different to the no border gates at all between Ireland and Northerm Ireland

At least in Gibraltar they have some border infrastructure, even if it will be hell if they implemented all the checks.

No Gibraltar is nothing like the long Irish open border. The Spanish have been known in the past to make, or try to make, points by closing the crossing point or at least to introduce long delays for those choosing to work on the other side of the border.

It was already hell when we went there, we queued for 3 hours to get back into Spain AND the hire car was checked over top to bottom, front to back, even without a Spainish random decision to close or increase the delay at the border.

 

[cjp]

There is a hard border for entering Spain from Gibraltar, totally different to the no border gates at all between Ireland and Northerm Ireland

It was already hell when we went there, we queued for 3 hours to get back into Spain AND the hire car was checked over top to bottom, front to back, even without a Spainish random decision to close or increase the delay at the border.

Yes we really are not one big happy EU despite what people would have you believe.

At present business are squabbling on how to get most of the cake to eat whilst spreading FUD on the peons and using the politicians in their pockets to achieve their desires.

Us? We get what we are given rather than the break the country voted for.

 

[dosxuk]

No Gibraltar is nothing like the long Irish open border. The Spanish have been known in the past to make, or try to make, points by closing the crossing point or at least to introduce long delays for those choosing to work on the other side of the border. And that is when both are part of the EEC or EU as it morphed into.
Also they do have the same language as they do on both sides of the Irish border.
The trading structure is different.
Do not treat them as being the same.

That's my point - the Irish border is the easier one, and until we can come up with a solution to that border, there's not much point discussing the Gibraltan one. If we end up in a customs union with freedom of movement in order to keep the Irish border clear, it makes the Gibraltar one much simpler to deal with. If we end up with a manned, checkpoint heavy border in Ireland, then we'll just end up with the same there, just with less people trying to blow it up.

 

[cjp]

That's my point - the Irish border is the easier one, and until we can come up with a solution to that border, there's not much point discussing the Gibraltan one. If we end up in a customs union with freedom of movement in order to keep the Irish border clear, it makes the Gibraltar one much simpler to deal with. If we end up with a manned, checkpoint heavy border in Ireland, then we'll just end up with the same there, just with less people trying to blow it up.

Then we have to agree to disagree - see 15265 just above :-.

It was already hell when we went there, we queued for 3 hours to get back into Spain AND the hire car was checked over top to bottom, front to back, even without a Spanish random decision to close or increase the delay at the border.

 

[nidave]

Gibraltar
This has all gone a bit quiet.
A place where there is a land border with the EU.
Where as part of the EU's proposal nothing can be agreed without Spain's prior agreement.
(Something they just dropped into their negotiating position despite the people of Gibraltar having made it abundantly clear in a referendum of their own that they consider them themselves British not Spanish).
Nothing in the news about this of late.
Something being swept under the carpet by connivance or otherwise with the Press who are having more fun with the border in Ireland?

Remain had taken 96 percent of the vote in the EU referendum in Gibraltar.

 

[nidave]

Yes we really are not one big happy EU despite what people would have you believe.

Yes we really are not one big happy UK, or one big happy England, or One big happy London or one big happy Barnet, or one big happy Edgware or one big happy North Street or one big happy No 32. I don't see what point you are trying to make here.

At present business are squabbling on how to get most of the cake to eat whilst spreading FUD on the peons and using the politicians in their pockets to achieve their desires.

You mean like ensuring there are enough medicines for people to deal with any uncertainty, making sure their customers have enough to eat (I don't think we will have many shortages thanks to the planning of these businesses) would you rather they just sat back and did nothing to ensure they can continue trading properly or actually take some action. I bet you would be the first to complain "why didn't they plan for this" if it all goes up the spout.

Us? We get what we are given rather than the break the country voted for.

You need to at least elaborate on this bit - makes very little sense - are you talking about a specific location, brexit or what?