Northern strike action suspended

[Bletchleyite]

Is this not the same deal that GA agreed with the RMT last year?
It's a bit of a disappointment, as I was hoping for a role like Southern's OBS, which as a passenger I find a lot better than a Northern Guard you may or may not see!

If the drivers are going to operate (at least release) the doors I think you're going to see more of them anyway. It will make the revenue part of the guard role much easier.

 

[cactustwirly]

If the drivers are going to operate (at least release) the doors I think you're going to see more of them anyway. It will make the revenue part of the guard role much easier.

Yes I do agree it's a step in the right direction!

 

[dk1]

Is this not the same deal that GA agreed with the RMT last year?
It's a bit of a disappointment, as I was hoping for a role like Southern's OBS, which as a passenger I find a lot better than a Northern Guard you may or may not see!

GA guards are guaranteed this role until the end of the current franchise in 2025.

 

[yorksrob]

Hooray,

It sounds remarkably like the sort of arrangement that some of us have been arguing for for the past two years.

 

[Howardh]

I'm totally lost in all this - I thought Northern were always going to have someone other than the driver onboard - ie. to access the ramp for wheelchairs etc. I assumed they wanted to devalue the "guard" so they could pay less; can someone fill me in as in if a train is DOO; who gets the ramp out? Who checks the tickets??

 

[cactustwirly]

I'm totally lost in all this - I thought Northern were always going to have someone other than the driver onboard - ie. to access the ramp for wheelchairs etc. I assumed they wanted to devalue the "guard" so they could pay less; can someone fill me in as in if a train is DOO; who gets the ramp out? Who checks the tickets??

On full DOO trains, like the GWML, platform staff use the ramps, there aren't regular ticket checks, but most stations have barriers, and there are RPI stings at the smaller stations.

However on Southern there's an OBS who does the ramp and collects tickets.

 

[geoffk]

On full DOO trains, like the GWML, platform staff use the ramps, there aren't regular ticket checks, but most stations have barriers, and there are RPI stings at the smaller stations.
However on Southern there's an OBS who does the ramp and collects tickets.

On a DOO train in Ireland (Cork to Cobh) a few years ago, the driver got out of his cab to attend to the wheelchair ramp and stow it away afterwards, as the stations on the branch are unstaffed.

 

[Howardh]

On full DOO trains, like the GWML, platform staff use the ramps, there aren't regular ticket checks, but most stations have barriers, and there are RPI stings at the smaller stations.

However on Southern there's an OBS who does the ramp and collects tickets.

Thanks for that, does it mean someone turning up in a wheelchair at an unmanned station can't get on? In 2018??

Edit - adds that I have just read the post above. Could a driver not see the pax; maybe if thye are in a shelter?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I wonder if they have been able to contribute some kind of funding so the DfT could climb down on their push for DOO which was primarily for financial reasons?

I suspect your hammer is at least close to the head of the nail...

 

[craigybagel]

I'm totally lost in all this - I thought Northern were always going to have someone other than the driver onboard - ie. to access the ramp for wheelchairs etc. I assumed they wanted to devalue the "guard" so they could pay less; can someone fill me in as in if a train is DOO; who gets the ramp out? Who checks the tickets??

Northern were going to vaguely try and put someone on every train, but without any guarantee that they would be on every train. On trains where they weren't on - there would be nobody to get the ramp out, check thy tickets, or do any of the 101 other things a qualified guard can and does do.

Now they have backed down from this stance, and agreed that a 2nd member of staff will be on 100% of trains that run, full stop.

 

[Andyh82]

I’m guessing something has happened behind the scenes, as they’ve been to ACAS before and nothing ever changed.

I expect Arriva have reached the end of their patience playing this game of the DfT’s making, and either they threatened to pull out of the franchise and/or some money has become available meaning Arriva can now afford to keep the guards without any financial impact.

 

[cactustwirly]

Thanks for that, does it mean someone turning up in a wheelchair at an unmanned station can't get on? In 2018??

Edit - adds that I have just read the post above. Could a driver not see the pax; maybe if thye are in a shelter?

But all of the stations are staffed on the GWML AFAIK

 

[baz962]

Northern were going to vaguely try and put someone on every train, but without any guarantee that they would be on every train. On trains where they weren't on - there would be nobody to get the ramp out, check thy tickets, or do any of the 101 other things a qualified guard can and does do.

Now they have backed down from this stance, and agreed that a 2nd member of staff will be on 100% of trains that run, full stop.

So does this mean that if a couple of guards go sick say , they just cancel the train ?

 

[dk1]

So does this mean that if a couple of guards go sick say , they just cancel the train ?

Will be just as it is now. If they can cover they will but no way will any train run with just the driver.

 

[bengley]

I’m guessing something has happened behind the scenes, as they’ve been to ACAS before and nothing ever changed.

I expect Arriva have reached the end of their patience playing this game of the DfT’s making, and either they threatened to pull out of the franchise and/or some money has become available meaning Arriva can now afford to keep the guards without any financial impact.

Aren't DB selling Arriva?

 

[baz962]

Will be just as it is now. If they can cover they will but no way will thectrain run with justvthe driver.

Ok, thanks.

 

[dk1]

Ok, thanks.

Most welcome mate. Everything is done to avoid a cancellation.

 

[Bantamzen]

I’m guessing something has happened behind the scenes, as they’ve been to ACAS before and nothing ever changed.

I expect Arriva have reached the end of their patience playing this game of the DfT’s making, and either they threatened to pull out of the franchise and/or some money has become available meaning Arriva can now afford to keep the guards without any financial impact.

Arriva have, allegedly been making some unhappy noises to DfT for a while. So perhaps this is not a million miles from what has gone on. The DafT have had their heels dug in deeply for a long time, so to suddenly give way suggests more of a fear of another franchise fail rather than bowing to union pressure. And also consider who is the stakeholder of DB, and a certain political stalemate. Just saying like...

 

[baz962]

Most welcome mate. Everything is done to avoid a cancellation.

I was wondering though , if it happens a fair bit , do you think passengers will get cheesed off with no train. I'm just wondering if most passengers would rather a second person or no train .

 

[WatcherZero]

So RMT have caved to the position Northern and the Government have been offering for months and they've previously refused to even discuss (guarantee of a second trained staff member on board, not necessarily a guard)?

Wonder what caused them to finally stop digging their heels in and actually talk about the offer on the table.

 

[dk1]

I was wondering though , if it happens a fair bit , do you think passengers will get cheesed off with no train. I'm just wondering if most passengers would rather a second person or no train .

Whether they get cheesed off or not makes no difference whatsoever. It rarely happens now so what's to think it will happen more in future?

 

[Eccles1983]

So RMT have caved to the position Northern and the Government have been offering for months and they've previously refused to even discuss (guarantee of a second trained staff member on board, not necessarily a guard)?

Wonder what caused them to finally stop digging their heels in and actually talk about the offer on the table.

Eh?

The RMT hasn't caved. The offer was second person on board, which could mean any employee.

Today's offer is a conductor on board every train.

Capitulation has happened on one side only.

 

[Muenchener]

So with this issue finally on the down wind leg and approaching finals; what are we going to find to exercise us from here on in I wonder?

Oh well; I guess there is still the question of the delivery of the Northern May 2019 timetable...

 

[Bantamzen]

So with this issue finally on the down wind leg and approaching finals; what are we going to find to exercise us from here on in I wonder?

Oh well; I guess there is still the question of the delivery of the Northern May 2019 timetable...

Don't worry, there is still the issue of the 195/331 seats to be fully debated....

 

[Muenchener]

Don't worry, there is still the issue of the 195/331 seats to be fully debated....

Ah yes rolling stock.

Northern; the gift that continues to deliver!

 

[Aivilo]

Am I missing something as I cannot see a mention of 'some DCO operation'?

 

[cactustwirly]

And also consider who is the stakeholder of DB, and a certain political stalemate. Just saying like...

Northern is only a very small part of Arriva's operations!
DB has little say over Arriva, as the day to day operations are run from Sunderland not Berlin!
DB has big problems of it's own, before it starts micromanaging Arriva.
Given that DB is semi privatised, I'm not sure how much control the German government has over it!

 

[craigybagel]

So RMT have caved to the position Northern and the Government have been offering for months and they've previously refused to even discuss (guarantee of a second trained staff member on board, not necessarily a guard)?

Wonder what caused them to finally stop digging their heels in and actually talk about the offer on the table.

Other way around it would seem - it sounds like it's the same arrangement that had been reached months ago with Greater Anglia. A guard on every train, just not necessarily in charge of the doors. RMT allegedly proposed this a long time ago, and it was Northern/DFT who refused to accept - and who have now caved.

 

[Aivilo]

Its not a case of RMT caving at all. Northern would not agree to a 2nd safety critical member of staff onboard which is the big issue.

 

[CHAPS2034]

So with this issue finally on the down wind leg and approaching finals; what are we going to find to exercise us from here on in I wonder?

Oh well; I guess there is still the question of the delivery of the Northern May 2019 timetable...

From your aircraft analogy above, let's hope this issue doesn't suffer a "go-around"

Well, to exercise us, here's a few ideas.

• What about training for all these new trains whilst maintaining a full schedule
• And now we appear to be getting a 6 day railway again, what about Sunday driver availability?
• Electric trains via Bolton?
• Withdrawal - or not - of Pacers by the end of the year
• Northern's "customer service"

Plenty to go at. All in their own threads of course

And indeed, I (and many others I guess!) would be interested to hear of the views of DfT's Peter Wilkinson on this solution ... But sadly I expect we never will