Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
From conversation recently quite a lot of Leavers actually did, yes. Did they understand the implications? Questionable, from the same conversations. Though I think some did.
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EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...
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From conversation recently quite a lot of Leavers actually did, yes. Did they understand the implications? Questionable, from the same conversations. Though I think some did.
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YorkshireBear
Established Member
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I hate this, there's been a vote get behind it? Why should I? You mean like tories get behind a Labour government and Labour get behind a tory government. I don't think they do. So why should this act of democracy be any different.
Why can't I move to the EU. Various reasons.
1. Leaving my family. My family are currently in the EU so I get to be an EU citizen and be near them. After brexit that wouldn't be the case.
2. Language. In this small minded country we think its uncool to learn a foreign language. Why when they all speak English in benidorm anyway? So I haven't got good enough language skills to replicate my career abroad. Other than some very niche jobs which are impossible to get. Yes I have tried.
3. Come April I may not actually be able to without going through some serious red tape paperwork exercises.
Despite all this I am in the process of leaening german in the hope that DB fancy some English rail engineers. And portugese too. I have been told in no uncertain terms by brexiteers that the country doesn't need people like me who won't get behind the will of the people so hopefully the despise for which they hold me will overcome the reasons above for not leaving. Apparently the country is awash with civil engineers.
furnessvale
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2015
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- 4,910
And remainers claim that Brexiters deny facts and talk gibberish!
It's not really about them refusing to sell to us, because I'm sure that will not be the situation at all. It's that delivery will become more expensive and longer and the tariffs will make their products more expensive to UK buyers. Their profits will be hit and it may cause them to move some sales elsewhere, which will cause costs to go even higher. No-one wins out of this, which is why no-one sensible wants a no deal Brexit.
Well except for the speculators, who are no doubt shorting the UK right now.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Well, quite. There really should be legislation to ban short-selling. There is absolutely no conceivable benefit to it whatsoever.
Roadtrip45
Member
- Joined
- 4 Feb 2019
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- 7
I am just worried now as to what might happen, it all seems so up in the air
R G NOW.
Member
The whole lot was not thought out from the start in my mind. Why didn't Cameron sort some options out first with the eu, before the ballot papers came from the printers.
First, agree several withdrawal deals.
second agree new terms with eu, if stayed in.
then put on ballot paper.
do you wish to remain in the European union.
yes or no. ---------------
If uk result is remain.
opt 1
opt 2.
opt 3.
if uk result is leave.
opt 1
opt 2
opt 3
please tick only one of each option.
now please fold the paper in half and place in the ballot box.
if you tick more options the ballot paper will be void. please show to the returning officer and they with give you another one.
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opt nos would on ballot paper would be in wording as the country would have voted for what they want from the outset.
the options would have been agreed with the eu, before we went to the polls.
It was a total shambles, in my mind and many other peoples. Then Cameron storms out of office like a kid in a classroom.
First, agree several withdrawal deals.
second agree new terms with eu, if stayed in.
then put on ballot paper.
do you wish to remain in the European union.
yes or no. ---------------
If uk result is remain.
opt 1
opt 2.
opt 3.
if uk result is leave.
opt 1
opt 2
opt 3
please tick only one of each option.
now please fold the paper in half and place in the ballot box.
if you tick more options the ballot paper will be void. please show to the returning officer and they with give you another one.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
opt nos would on ballot paper would be in wording as the country would have voted for what they want from the outset.
the options would have been agreed with the eu, before we went to the polls.
It was a total shambles, in my mind and many other peoples. Then Cameron storms out of office like a kid in a classroom.
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DynamicSpirit
Established Member
Is that how much you care about your fellow citizens? That you think it's OK to just tell them to leave the country they grew up in, the place where (for most of us) our families, friends and careers are? How would you like it if it was suggested to you that if you don't like the EU, you should just abandon all your family and move away to a country outside the EU? I'm guessing you wouldn't like it very much.
Besides, your logic only works if you assume that people are supporting Remain for entirely selfish reasons to do only with their own personal lives. In many cases that's not true. For example, my strong support for Remain is to a large extent because of a belief in international co-operation, a belief that the EU overall is a force for good in the World, and a belief that many problems (such as pollution/environmental protection) are best solved by the kind of coordinated action across national boundaries that are facilitated by organisations like the EU. As well as by all the evidence that leaving the EU will cause a lot of harm to a very large number of people. How on Earth would my leaving the UK change any of that?
So Nissan were offered millions to keep the xtrail. Even with that they think it's not viable.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...arkers?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Government letter to Nissan reveals Brexit promise to carmarkers
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...arkers?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Basher
Member
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- 6 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 343
I understood the grants were for the development of an electric car research / excellent centre. The X trail demise is its a diesel, I would of thought that if Nissan wanted to keep a the production of the X Trail it would have moved it to another EU country, especially when there is some kind of tie-up with Renault.
It apparently a car with diminishing sales anyway, according to what I heard today on the radio.
It apparently a car with diminishing sales anyway, according to what I heard today on the radio.
That's not what Nissan and the government have said. Are they lying??
The letter states the money is there on contingent of the x trail being built in Sunderland.
How about the only economist the erg listens to Patrick Minford...
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https://t.co/jfkt3ynTSK
So WTO rules means we have to let everyone have free access to the UK and this is not stopping the eu from doing checks.
It's also opening the borders to illigal immigrants and smuggling and dies nothing to sold the n. Ireland border issue.
More project fear. Damn these people not investing in the UK. They are traitors and should be hung at the gallows. Or are we now going to get "there are too many building in the UK anyway"
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...survey?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
UK construction growth close to stalling as Brexit fears build
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...survey?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Like those people saying "it will be bad"... eh? :P
Claiming citizenship is different to leaving.
I'm not sticking my head in the sand...
I'm just not bothering to moan about how the politicans are messing it all up, nor am I still moaning about the result of the vote. The opinion on whether we have a no-deal brexit or not isn't really worth very much unless you do something with it... like physically go and SEE your MP and hassle them. Get a group of people together to do the same... get media attention...
Perhaps getting a group of 10 random people together to draw up terms would have been better.
That's not what it's about.
It's about those people who continue to berate the country, think the world is coming to an end and we've shot ourselves in the foot. If they really think that, they would move. It's not about being thrown out, it's about making the choice to move, because this country is "going to the dogs".
Truth is, it's not that bad, or it's too much hassle to move.
So I fail to understand why peole continue to stomp around saying it's all a mistake.
Until we've been out for about 5 years, we can't say whether it's good or bad. I have yet to read a media article giving the other side of the view... that it could be good.
I too believe the EU is a force for good, but as I've said before, most EU countries find ways around new laws the EU impose, the UK does not.
This short term badness with our currency and all the politics going along with it is short term. Of course it was going to be bad before it gets better.
If you accept the point of view that it could get worse (and most people here seem to think it will), why can't you accept that it could be better?
Remember, we're talking about the long term, not just the next few years.
Esker-pades
Established Member
There is evidence that things will be bad afterwards. Like the supermarkets saying they will have difficulty importing food, or the recently leaked suggestions that, in order to keep the Dover-Calais crossing moving smoothly, checks will simply stop in our side and we will hope France does the same. And then there's the entire situation with the Irish border. And Patrick Minfford.
I'd love to see evidence that no deal will be good, or indeed that Brexit will be good.
Brexiters don't do evidence.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1092040413240807424.html
Intresting read considering how many falsehoods like "the UK got nothing from the Marshall plan" Daniel Kawczynski has been telling recently. He was a remainer then switched to hard leave. Follow the money. This is what it's all about.
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Go on... I've been wanting a list of positives of leaving and nobody is yet to produce any that stand up to the slightest scrutiny. There's plenty of mights and coulds, but nothing concrete that is going to be good for us.
On the other hand, there's plenty of stuff that definitely is going to be bad for us compared to what we have today. And we know this before the government has even worked out what sort of relationship we want with the EU!
What UK manufacturer?
More fake news I suppose. Even when it comes from the leave director.
You don't really hear much about smaller businesses and brexit. This matches my experience.
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-director-admits-won-lied-public/08/02/
You don't really hear much about smaller businesses and brexit. This matches my experience.
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/c...m_campaign=sharebar&__twitter_impression=true
EM2
Established Member
I've mentioned this a number of times on this thread. It's been ignored by Leave supporters, or they say that they don't care about it.
As I've already noted, this has become a question of belief now, rather than rational thought. And people don't easily change their beliefs.
I don't think anyone could have predicted just how bad the Referendum would be for the country, never mind actual Brexit.
I wonder if a referendum on any other topic would have had such a lasting divisive effect and stirred up such animosities. On capital punishment, or voluntary euthanasia, for example, where the views of MPs seem out of step with the views of the populace at large. Or is it that the chaotic way in which the aftermath of the referendum has been handled is what has really stimulated hatreds that will take a very long time to die down? Or is that this was simply a topic unsuited for any referendum, where our so-called representative MPs should have done their job and exercised their best judgement on all our behalfs?
Howardh
Established Member
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- 9,794
Capital Punishment, arming the police, euthenasia etc can all be reversed reasonably straightforwardly if they were voted for and it proved to be a mistake. Joining the Euro less so I suppose, but this Brexit nonsense, once left, would be very difficult to reverse - maybe unless we were EEA members operating the same rules - and rejoining (unless some kind of deal could be made otherwise) would probably require joining Schengen, that would be great IMO, and joining the Euro.
Just wonder if there could be a cavetat to a soft or even hard WTO Brexit, the EU agreeing to let us return on more-or-less current rules (ie our vetos, opt-outs, rebate, no Schengen/Euro) within 10 years either by another vote/government decision? And the cost of that cavetat, er, £39bn?
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