Hi everyone, I am currently travelling in from Peterborough (PBO) to London Terminals, on a GN train. Part of my ticket is an annual season ticket, part is a off-peak day return. The LNER ticket office at PBO told me that I couldn't take an LNER train because they didn't stop where the train was split (Huntingdon), which I'm fairly sure is incorrect when combined with a season ticket, as detailed elsewhere on these forums - rule 14 etc. My question is thus - how much mileage is there in taking print outs of the rules and waving them about - have others actually done this and if so did it lead to a successful outcome? Thanks!
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Split ticket arguments - print outs of conditions any use?!
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ForTheLoveOf
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I'm not sure that there is a great deal of mileage in this. Either the member of staff will know the rules and accept the combination, or they will be unacknowledgable and have a problem with it. There are very few members of staff out there who don't know the rules but are willing to accept what they might say are "random things you've printed off". After all, those who are unknowledgeable are most likely to pull out the old "I've been on the railway for X years and I know the rules better than you" chestnut.
Ultimately if a member of staff has a problem with the combination, the key is to stay calm and not to try and overly argue the matter with them. Comply with whatever it is they ask (get off at the next stop, give your details, pay the fare etc.) - and then afterwards obviously take things further.
In a normal industry I would have suggested contacting LNER to advise them of their misinformed ticket office staff at Peterborough, but I think it's probably a waste of time in the rail industry. People simply don't get retrained or fired for being incompetent, it's almost worse than the civil service.
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Intermodal
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The above answer is a good one. Just travel with your (100% permitted) ticket combination and see what happens. I am not as sceptical as some on this forum and would suggest you will be fine. In the rare event you do have a confrontation (on-train staff are generally much better trained than ticket office staff in areas of ticket validity) then I would suggest you offer to show them the relevant parts of the NRCoT on their phone.
How about a double split - Peterborough then split at Huntingdon and then Hitchin? My reading of 14.2 is that it only mentions the "train doesn't need to stop at the split / season ticket" allowance in the context of a single other ticket, would it apply to two additional tickets?
Aictos
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Indeed I had a similar issue with Peterborough a few years with a valid ticket combo, it was confirmed as valid by the Fares Manager of my TOC at the time who proceeded to contact the Fares Manager over at East Coast as it was at the time to raise the issue who then sent a reminder to the station management team to brief their staff properly so yes issues do occur regardless and you do get these who know it all but know nothing however issues once raised do get sorted.
ForTheLoveOf
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I think the consensus is that the only way that Condition 14 can be used to do multiple non-stopping 'splits' is if you are only using one ticket - i.e. if switching from one route of validity to another. If using a combination of tickets you are indeed limited to one non-stop split. This is less generous than it was in NRCoC days (pre October 2016), where multiple such splits were permitted. However, in return, non-stopping splits are now allowed on most PTE products as well as rangers and rovers, which weren't previously permitted.
Wallsendmag
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Don't worry they'll know now
Intermodal
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Thanks
gray1404
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Out of interest do booking offices still carry printed copies of the NRCoT? If so, then I would carry a copy of this booklet rather then something you have printed off yourself.
ForTheLoveOf
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They will usually print it on demand.
Westcoast-ting
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It’s sad but true that the level of ticket training is woefully bad for new starters or for existing guards to renew and refresh with regards to changes of the narcot.
It’s also just as bad that a small percentage don’t understand this and react naiveley when their not sure.
Some guards will take the philosophy of I’m
Not sure so I’ll stamp it and find out for myself later.
This leaves you with the only option to resolve the issue to pay again, the only benefit of the situation is that the guard would be made aware of any breaches of narcot and hopefully would spread the word amongst colleagues.
You could contact their social media team and get them to confirm it is valid ?
It’s also just as bad that a small percentage don’t understand this and react naiveley when their not sure.
Some guards will take the philosophy of I’m
Not sure so I’ll stamp it and find out for myself later.
This leaves you with the only option to resolve the issue to pay again, the only benefit of the situation is that the guard would be made aware of any breaches of narcot and hopefully would spread the word amongst colleagues.
You could contact their social media team and get them to confirm it is valid ?
Haywain
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It is highly unlikely that this is the problem. I suspect that I could name the member of staff and it is likely to be someone who has been there for a number of years that is in to double figures.
It is a big problem at some TOCs, e.g. it's rife at Northern, but far less so at LNER.
Yes there is the opposite problem of "I've done this job X years so I know it all" where they are basically refusing to look up the rules rather than lacking training.
I do not think any LNER Guards would claim the combination isn't valid. I don't even think the infamous LNER guard from the zzip00 case would try it.
Yes there is the opposite problem of "I've done this job X years so I know it all" where they are basically refusing to look up the rules rather than lacking training.
the company would be in breach of contract if that was to happen, which would in turn be a franchise breach.
I do not think any LNER Guards would claim the combination isn't valid. I don't even think the infamous LNER guard from the zzip00 case would try it.
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SickyNicky
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Apparently I "do not have permission to view this page", so presumably that's the same for everyone?
RJ
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There's a copy pinned up on the noticeboard where I am.
Joe Paxton
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Has it been pinned there courtesy of yourself though?!
RJ
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No - the TOC I work for has a periodic ticket office audit process in place to ensure we comply with our obligations. One part of that is ensuring a copy of the NRCoT is available for customers to view on request. My colleagues are experienced and knowledgeable people who keep on top of ensuring it's there and up to date - it's not normally down to me as I'm only ever at work once in a blue moon
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