TRIVIA: Naming of Engines

[DarloRich]

It is the dated nostalgia i find boring with these threads. All anyone ever does is offer the same old dull and unimaginative names from the past that don't really reflect modern society. I will, therefore, suggest 5 categories from which names may be selected:

1. Heritage/ culture
2. Tourism
3. Places
4. People who have made an outstanding contribution ( or are famous and alive!)
5. Responsibility & reward ( sponsorship & support for charity works)

It must be noted that names these days are, generally, about generating PR NOT nice train names. Clearly the names chosen need to reflect both the heritage of the route in question along with recognising the vast changes and regeneration that have taken place in our cities and the make up of our communities. There should also be a reflection of the people and places served by current services and the lives people lead in 21st century Britain. Clearly namings can not be divisive or controversial but have to be more than just a list of dead, old, white, blokes! They have to mean something to the public paying for tickets, help to engender in the travelling public a feeling of “togetherness” and a connection with the company and the service offered. Ultimately they have to be used to entice people onto the train. It may also be used to help create links between local communities/groups and the company, ultimately helping to reduce trespass or rail crime.

We need to remove our trainspotter hats and wear our commercial hats. What PR does a name give us? Will it get us in the papers? Can I get a slot on the ITV news via this? That is what is important not that 47689 was once called University of Nowhereville.

with the 68s being named for warships

they aren't named after warships unless they are space warships.

Warships and those from mythology sound the best, are evocative and are timeless IMO. Of course, RN warships do have a naming committee.

the RN have 20 front line ships and 10 submarines. Most people would struggle to name mythological creatures or people beyond the obvious ones. Take a look at the names on the barrier vehicles used by Arlington - Liwet? Pascher? Perpetiel? I have a classics background and struggle with those!

We need a mix of names from a mix of sources.

I wasn't sure if some TOCs maybe had something like it in their PR departments or whatever.

There will be but it will be an informal grouping rather than a standing body. I suspect they would come together once the PR director had convinced the board of a cunning plan to develop free PR via a naming campaign

 

[43096]

they aren't named after warships unless they are space warships.

Space warships? What are you talking about?

Some of the 68s do have the names of D800 and Class 50 locomotives (Intrepid, Daring, Valiant, Fearless, Resolution, Achilles, Superb) which were named after warships, whilst at least Astute, Tireless, Rapid, Vigilant and Centaur have also been used on Royal Navy warships or submarines. So that's at least 12 of 19 names with Royal Navy connections.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

"Techniquest" was a name that always puzzled me (it was on a HST power car IIRC)... turns out that it was named after some sort of interactive science-based tourist attraction. Given the amount of traffic it generates for the railway, I'm surprised there isn't either a Northern or GC unit named for Eureka- the children's museum in Halifax which is right next to (and occupies part of) the station.

For the TPE 68s I'd like to see a revival of the "Pride in Huddersfield" name from 47434. I'd also suggest my namesake (numbersake?) but that's already on 66738.

 

[DarloRich]

Space warships? What are you talking about?

Some of the 68s do have the names of D800 and Class 50 locomotives (Intrepid, Daring, Valiant, Fearless, Resolution, Achilles, Superb) which were named after warships, whilst at least Astute, Tireless, Rapid, Vigilant and Centaur have also been used on Royal Navy warships or submarines. So that's at least 12 of 19 names with Royal Navy connections.

I was told that any such connection is entirely coincidental and that the names are not linked to any name used by the Royal Navy. The words were chosen to suggest strength, solidity and power. The conversation came about as I suggested that if they were named after the ships then the ships crest would be a nice touch especially as we have family history with at least one of the ships.

If we look at the names the link with the Royal Navy is tenuous at best. Only 3 are live RN ships. I could see DRS locomotives named after RN submarines as they are built at Barrow and DRS transport naval reactor material. However I struggle with ships dating from WW1 or WW2!

• HMS Intrpid was an amphibious assault ship withdrawn in 1999
• HMS Astute is a current attack submarine
• HMS Rapid was a WW2 R Class destoryer sunk as a torpedo target in 1981
• HMS Defiant was a film or a 1780's ship of the line! However USS Defiant is in Star Trek first contact and is commanded by Worf
• HMS Daring is a live type 45 Destroyer
• HMS Valiant was a WW1 battle ship although there is a USS Valiant in Star Trek
• HMS Avenger was a WW2 escort carrier or a Type 21 frigate sold to Pakistan in 1994
• HMS Fearless was amphibious assault ship withdrawn in 2002
• HMS Hornet was a WW1 destroyer
• HMS Vigilant is an active missile submarine
• HMS Reliance was last used in the 1700's
• HMS Tireless was an attack submarine withdrawn in 2014
• HMS Resolution was a ballistic missile submarine withdrawn in 1994
• HMS Achilles was a Leander class frigate sold to Chille in 1990
• HMS Centaur was an aircraft carrier scrapped in 1970
• HMS Superb was an attack submarine withdrawn in 2008

Of the proposed names Endevour was the name of James Cook exploration ship in the 1770's, Excelsior is a Star Trek ship, HMS Patriot was a WW1 destroyer, HMS Courageous is a semi preserved attack submarine and HMS Victorious is an active missile submarine.

If someone has alternative information I will happily offer my apologies. The space warships was in relation to some of the names of the class 68's which sound suspiciously like Star Trek ship names names

PS I cant find HMS Oxford Flier

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I was told that any such connection is entirely coincidental and that the names are not linked to any name used by the Royal Navy. The words were chosen to suggest strength, solidity and power. The conversation came about as I suggested that if they were named after the ships then the ships crest would be a nice touch especially as we have family history with at least one of the ships.

If we look at the names the link with the Royal Navy is tenuous at best. Only 3 are live RN ships. I could see DRS locomotives named after RN submarines as they are built at Barrow and DRS transport naval reactor material. However I struggle with ships dating from WW1 or WW2!

• HMS Intrpid was an amphibious assault ship withdrawn in 1999
• HMS Astute is a current attack submarine
• HMS Rapid was a WW2 R Class destoryer sunk as a torpedo target in 1981
• HMS Defiant was a film or a 1780's ship of the line! However USS Defiant is in Star Trek first contact and is commanded by Worf
• HMS Daring is a live type 45 Destroyer
• HMS Valiant was a WW1 battle ship although there is a USS Valiant in Star Trek
• HMS Avenger was a WW2 escort carrier or a Type 21 frigate sold to Pakistan in 1994
• HMS Fearless was amphibious assault ship withdrawn in 2002
• HMS Hornet was a WW1 destroyer
• HMS Vigilant is an active missile submarine
• HMS Reliance was last used in the 1700's
• HMS Tireless was an attack submarine withdrawn in 2014
• HMS Resolution was a ballistic missile submarine withdrawn in 1994
• HMS Achilles was a Leander class frigate sold to Chille in 1990
• HMS Centaur was an aircraft carrier scrapped in 1970
• HMS Superb was an attack submarine withdrawn in 2008

Of the proposed names Endevour was the name of James Cook exploration ship in the 1770's, Excelsior is a Star Trek ship, HMS Patriot was a WW1 destroyer, HMS Courageous is a semi preserved attack submarine and HMS Victorious is an active missile submarine.

If someone has alternative information I will happily offer my apologies. The space warships was in relation to some of the names of the class 68's which sound suspiciously like Star Trek ship names names

PS I cant find HMS Oxford Flier

I'm not holding my breath for a 68 named Cockshoot... nor ones named Red Dwarf or Starbug!

Serenity would get my vote, however inappropriate it may be for a noisy diesel!

 

[DarloRich]

I'm not holding my breath for a 68 named Cockshoot... nor ones named Red Dwarf or Starbug!

Cock o' the North offers much more opportunity for euphemism

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Cock o' the North offers much more opportunity for euphemism

A plaque with Don Revie's face would be appropriate for that one!

 

[Iskra]

the RN have 20 front line ships and 10 submarines. Most people would struggle to name mythological creatures or people beyond the obvious ones. Take a look at the names on the barrier vehicles used by Arlington - Liwet? Pascher? Perpetiel? I have a classics background and struggle with those!

We need a mix of names from a mix of sources.

Yes, however at one point the RN had 1000+ ships and it is hundreds of years old, so there are plenty to go at.

I'm 29 and could name a few, but I also did Classics at school! Perhaps when class x Charybdis, Hydra, Minotaur, Charon or Medusa passed-by it might encourage a quick google, and someone could learn something they wouldn't otherwise have come across. I additionally like the RN character traits.

Agreed, but they need to stand the test of time too. Some of the post privatisation ones have been crap, gimmicky or ill-thought out. Virgin Invader.

 

[Cowley]

Yeah that's pretty painful.

 

[pieguyrob]

Bond girls. Loco's/units with 007 in the number should be named after bond girls. That will get people talking. Especially with names like Pussy Galore from Goldfinger, Holly Goodhead from Moonraker, and, of course Octopussy from the same film. Jinx Johnson from Diamonds are forever. No doubt Xenia Onatopp from Goldeneye will raise some eyebrows too!
Like it has been previously said text doesn't satire/sarcasm!

 

[pieguyrob]

Honey Ryder? Dr. No.

 

[pieguyrob]

Freightliner did acknowledge 57007 by naning it Freightliner Bond. Its a shame noone else has.

 

[Steamie Boxes]

66783 The Flying Dustman

 

[Steamie Boxes]

Deleted

 

[306024]

It is the dated nostalgia i find boring......We need to remove our trainspotter hats and wear our commercial hats. What PR does a name give us? Will it get us in the papers? Can I get a slot on the ITV news via this? That is what is important not that 47689 was once called University of Nowhereville.

Yes and No.
Yes it is all about PR, look at the names on the class 90s on the Norwich service. Two newspapers and a well known Modern Railways journalist amongst them.
However look at the pride there was at Stratford in looking after their celebrity class 47s. Unfortunately a staff suggestion to name 3 class 90s County of Essex / Suffolk / Norfolk fell on stoney ground, but would have been well received by many.