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Bus journeys fall by 90 million in a year

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Adlington

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The number of bus journeys taken in Great Britain fell by more than 90 million in one year, official figures show.

The Department for Transport (DfT) said it helped subsidise buses with £250m a year in investment.

Councils say they have had to reduce subsidies for bus routes due to cuts to their own budgets, which has led to services being withdrawn.

Martin Tett, the Local Government Association's transport spokesman, said: "Councils know how important buses are for their residents and local economies and are desperate to protect them. It's nearly impossible for councils to keep subsidising free travel while having to find billions of pounds worth of savings and protect other vital services like caring for the elderly and disabled, protecting children, filling potholes and collecting bins. Faced with significant funding pressures, many across the country are being forced into taking difficult decisions to scale back services and review subsidised routes."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-47045872

Impact of the cuts on the elderly population is discussed in the article, with a decision by First Buses to reduce the 671 service in Bradford from a half hour service to an hourly one, as an example.
 
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96tommy

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I am not surprised by these figures. I personally made a lot less journeys in the last year thanks to the unreasonable prices now on the Coastliner route between here and York/Leeds
 

alex397

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And using this news, Labour are jumping on the 'we want our buses back' bandwagon in favour of nationalisation. Most of the bus cuts are the fault of the government, and yet people want to give them more control over buses. Just look at the mess TfL is in thanks to politicians...
 

Megafuss

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Jezza seems to think that public ownership of the buses will solve everything. No doubt Lothian, NCT and Reading Buses do a good job. But at what cost? Cardiff and Reading are making loses. Thamesdown was sold to Go Ahead as it was making a loss and my regular experiences of Ipswich Buses and Halton are somewhat problematic to his view that councils should run buses.

The evidence suggests that municipals and private operstions only really work where they have a strong local authority partner that can deliver infrastructure improvements and actually gives a carp about transport. Like Brighton, Oxford, Nottingham the West Midlands. So maybe all companies should work closer with local authority partners to utilise all available resources better rather than getting councils to take control of services they cannot afford to run. We might then see some improvements.
 

Adlington

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I personally made a lot less journeys in the last year thanks to the unreasonable prices now on the Coastliner route between here and York/Leeds
Does it mean you now use your car instead, or were the bus journeys kind of non-essential ones?
 

Stan Drews

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Does it mean you now use your car instead, or were the bus journeys kind of non-essential ones?

I’m not sure everyone would agree that £7.50 for a day return between Tadcaster and Leeds (28 miles round trip), or that £24.50 for a Tad-York weekly is expensive.
 

scotrail158713

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No doubt Lothian, NCT and Reading Buses do a good job.

Lothian Buses themselves (as in just the city buses) do well but their subsidiary companies i.e. East Coast and Lothian Country aren’t doing as well. In West Lothian it seems like the majority of off peak buses are close to empty, and in East Lothian they know that they have a monopoly on some routes so can charge extortionate fares (£5 return for journeys of 2.5-3 miles). This has resulted in a loss of potential passengers, as a lot of people who would use the bus in East Lothian then use the car instead.
As far as I know, the fares situation in West Lothian isn’t any better.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I’m not sure everyone would agree that £7.50 for a day return between Tadcaster and Leeds (28 miles round trip), or that £24.50 for a Tad-York weekly is expensive.
I'm sure that isn't a case of a poster using a thread to press home some sort of anti-Transdev point.

I'm sure it's some well balanced, considered point and fully aware of the issues of having to increase walk on fares (if only to cope with the issues of North Yorkshire's woeful ENCTS remuneration) yet trying to maintain sensible tickets for regular passengers - an issue that is replicated around the country.
 

radamfi

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I'm sure that isn't a case of a poster using a thread to press home some sort of anti-Transdev point.

I'm sure it's some well balanced, considered point and fully aware of the issues of having to increase walk on fares (if only to cope with the issues of North Yorkshire's woeful ENCTS remuneration) yet trying to maintain sensible tickets for regular passengers - an issue that is replicated around the country.

Which is more ethical, paying the bus fare, no matter how high it goes, or use the car instead?
 

Bletchleyite

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I’m not sure everyone would agree that £7.50 for a day return between Tadcaster and Leeds (28 miles round trip), or that £24.50 for a Tad-York weekly is expensive.

It certainly compares very favourably with most train fares of that distance, particularly Anytime fares and season tickets.
 

Harpers Tate

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But - as with just about all public transport fares - it compares very badly to the cost of driving when there are 2+ people travelling together. Added to which there are comparisions of comfort and, importantly, flexibility to (for example) change your mind about your route or destination or calling points, with incurring penalty costs. Or to travel out and back on different days. etc.

Sadly, it seems just about impossible for any regular form of transport to compete on overall value - i.e where the costs of using it are sufficiently low as to offset disadvantages of so doing - without huge public subsidy.
 

Mwanesh

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Which is more ethical, paying the bus fare, no matter how high it goes, or use the car instead?
I would rather catch a bus from where i live into Cardiff .Last time i used my car the cost of parking nearly gave me a heart attack.
 

ashworth

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I’m not sure everyone would agree that £7.50 for a day return between Tadcaster and Leeds (28 miles round trip), or that £24.50 for a Tad-York weekly is expensive.

Probably not. The peak time return bus fare from my village into Nottingham (only 18 miles round trip) is £7.60. This can be reduced by using Trent Barton’s Mango Card to £6.84 or as low as £5.75 for off peak travel. Trent Barton once told me that as it’s a route that serves villages and we are lucky enough to still have an hourly service during the day Monday to Saturday we have to pay a premium fare. I can’t help but think that ENCTS also has something to do with this.
 

duncombec

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The problem with fares is that we tend to focus on the amount of money, rather than the distance travelled. A return on my local bus route into town is something like £6.30, that despite it being 2 miles each way. In fact, by rather perverse logic, a day ticket is only £5.50, which naturally, I use more often.

Yet that said, i remember travelling from Skipton to Settle a few years ago, which Google tells me is approximately 15.5 miles in each direction, and almost having a heart attack when hearing the return fare was £8.something. So on the basis of my local bus fare, that (and Tommy96's return to York) are actually very cheap, but at that precise moment it seemed quite the opposite.

There are numerous factors that will come into play in anything such as this: Whilst the fare certainly puts me off, the bigger issue for me is reliability. Our service is mediocre at best, and there was a period last summer when I would only use the bus if I absolutely had no other choice, as it had let me down quite badly on three separate occasions (and that included travelling 2 or 3 journeys earlier than I theoretically needed to to make the connection/appointment). Of course ENCTS comes into it, but you have to be brave to take on the twirlys...

It is something I can't help but wonder: if bus companies _reduced_ their fares, would they actually end up with _more_ revenue, in the same way that "loss leaders" in supermarkets generate more sales than they would otherwise have done had the product remained at full price? Of course, the fact that no bus company has tried this is probably proof of my suspect financial understanding!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Probably not. The peak time return bus fare from my village into Nottingham (only 18 miles round trip) is £7.60. This can be reduced by using Trent Barton’s Mango Card to £6.84 or as low as £5.75 for off peak travel. Trent Barton once told me that as it’s a route that serves villages and we are lucky enough to still have an hourly service during the day Monday to Saturday we have to pay a premium fare. I can’t help but think that ENCTS also has something to do with this.

It is, as NYCC's reimbursement rate is atrocious. The Coastliner is naturally one of those routes that is attractive to pensioners with passes for leisure trips so it's even more of an issue!

"It is something I can't help but wonder: if bus companies _reduced_ their fares, would they actually end up with _more_ revenue, in the same way that "loss leaders" in supermarkets generate more sales than they would otherwise have done had the product remained at full price? Of course, the fact that no bus company has tried this is probably proof of my suspect financial understanding"

This is part of the issue with ENCTS. Reduce the cost and you increase patronage but do you get enough additional revenue to offset the price cut and any additional resource that you need to cope with it.
 

Stan Drews

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It is something I can't help but wonder: if bus companies _reduced_ their fares, would they actually end up with _more_ revenue, in the same way that "loss leaders" in supermarkets generate more sales than they would otherwise have done had the product remained at full price? Of course, the fact that no bus company has tried this is probably proof of my suspect financial understanding!

Supermarket ‘loss leaders’ aren’t really the same as bus fares. They are often designed to get you into store and then buy other products, which isn’t really an option with buses. Effectively if you reduce a fare by 20%, you need a 20% increase in passenger numbers just to get back to where you were. That is quite a challenge, although there have been some examples where it has proved to be an effective tool, I suspect there are many more where it has resulted in an overall revenue reduction.
 

Man of Kent

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It is something I can't help but wonder: if bus companies _reduced_ their fares, would they actually end up with _more_ revenue, in the same way that "loss leaders" in supermarkets generate more sales than they would otherwise have done had the product remained at full price? Of course, the fact that no bus company has tried this is probably proof of my suspect financial understanding![/QUOTE]
Actually, there is one good example where this has been pursued as a commercial project, and that's Bristol. The result is a massive increase in passengers, since fares were first cut and simplified in autumn 2013. But it has come at a price - £6m profit in 2014 on a turnover of £47m; £4m profit in 2017 on a turnover of £55m. As the company (First Bus Central Services Ltd, the company formerly known as First Bristol) was then merged with First Somerset & Avon, it's less clear what happened in 2018.
I believe - but cannot find the proof - that the passenger growth over that time has been in the order of 45%.

So yes - it can be done, but it's a lot of hard work to earn the same or even reduced profits. That may be a short-term viewpoint: I think we will have to wait another year to find out whether the long term position generates better profits.
 

Man of Kent

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Supermarket ‘loss leaders’ aren’t really the same as bus fares. They are often designed to get you into store and then buy other products, which isn’t really an option with buses. Effectively if you reduce a fare by 20%, you need a 20% increase in passenger numbers just to get back to where you were. That is quite a challenge, although there have been some examples where it has proved to be an effective tool, I suspect there are many more where it has resulted in an overall revenue reduction.
If you reduce the fare by 20%, you need a 25% increase in passenger numbers to stand still.
(100 - 20% = 80. 80 + 20% = 96).
 

Stan Drews

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If you reduce the fare by 20%, you need a 25% increase in passenger numbers to stand still.
(100 - 20% = 80. 80 + 20% = 96).

Well spotted MoK. I should have fired up the calculator before posting!
Hopefully your correction emphasises the point even more, but doubt it will stop those who advocate cheaper fares as the simple solution to all the bus industry’s ills.
 
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