EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Senex]

Leavers had the information: they knowingly voted to be poorer in order to be more "independent" and to limit the numbers of people from the EU coming here whilst not restricting the numbers of so-called refugees and other sorts of migrants from elsewhere in the world.
But even if they claim they didn't realise then what they were voting for, surely the arguments over the last 2½ years have made it absolutely clear who will lose by Brexit and who of the Brexiteer-brigade will not be personally affected. How tenable is the argument, heard almost every day at the moment, that the people's decision of 2½ years ago must be honoured? It was the decision 2½ years ago, albeit by a tiny majority, but should any government or parliament stick to an old decision when there is a great deal of new evidence to be considered, the overwhelming majority of which points to the damage that decision can do to the living standards of all, including those who voted for it? If new evidence becomes available, scientists and other scholars change what may well have been long-accepted doctrines. Should politicians not also respond to further and better particulars and not just bray on about the will of the people? Can it ever be right to be proud of sticking to your principles as you walk into disaster? (And why does no politician ever seem to argue that at least some consideration should be shewn in a truly democratic system to the views of the 16.1 million who opposed the 17.4 million?)

 

[Puffing Devil]

The whole affair reminds me of WW1 (as the Brexiteers love a good war story).

It started with the whole "It'll be over by Christmas" and descended into the hell that was trench warfare as the leaders of the time refused to see any other way forward, sticking to the established dogma.

May seems to be set on her course of destruction as it seemed a good idea 2 years ago and it was the will of (some) of the people. Time to stand back and take stock of what can really be delivered and the costs to all, while we still can. If, after an honest appraisal, the majority still want to leave, so be it.

 

[sprunt]

There's nothing emotional about wanting a job.

Or wanting to retain access to the medication without which I will die.

 

[Muttley]

Bingo.
So it is fair to say that HH was making things up.

Many apologies HH.
It was Puffing Devil making things up.

 

[HH]

Many apologies HH.
It was Puffing Devil making things up.

Alright, apology accepted. I do try very hard not to post anything that I cannot verify.

 

[nidave]

For those that wanted brexit to reduce the number of people in the country (clogging up the trains in the south apparently) No free trade deals without freedom of movement - which begs the question - why are we still doing this?

I say this not just as someone often accused of Anglophilia but also as a citizen of India — one of the very few countries that believes, according to polling organization YouGov, that Britain is individually more important than either Germany or France. Even so, there will be no preferential trade deals for a post-Brexit Britain from New Delhi unless more Indians are allowed to work in the U.K. This is not, of course, something that Brexit’s Little Britain will permit.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...ThNbGTYU0F64WoRTbL_gtTMXIay8d-iMGd251UaPKi7NY
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...ThNbGTYU0F64WoRTbL_gtTMXIay8d-iMGd251UaPKi7NY
Edit: 900 Jobs Lost in London this week- Wonder if someone is keeping track of all these "project fear" job losses and I wonder if the ONS will still say we have 4% unemployment or will they include dead people in the working population to fudge the figures further

The European Medicines Agency, one of the biggest EU regulators and one of the first casualties of Brexit, has closed its doors in the UK for the last time with the loss of 900 jobs.

Staff lowered and folded up the 28 national flags that adorned the lobby in London’s Canary Wharf headquarters on Friday night and bid farewell before moving to their new offices in Amsterdam.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...jhdWVCwPTjjk12PdyqJwzruuouip4olKMxeESnCdJV87o

 

[HH]

No, no, no. It's not really happening. It's fake news. Facebookuser 1987654 said so.

 

[nidave]

Well this seems like its going well

The government has been advising public bodies on how to avoid answering Freedom of Information (FOI) requests about no-deal Brexit planning, a leaked report has revealed.

Using advice from the Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU), a report marked "sensitive" which drawn up by the Kent Resilience Forum (KRF) and seen by The Independent, quotes tips on how to refuse to deal with requests about contingency planning using exemptions under FOI legislation.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-foi-requests-public-bodies-a8746681.html?amp

Its almost as if they are trying to hide how bad its going to get with a no deal.

 

[EM2]

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-wales-cornwall-regional-funding-eu/
Wales and Cornwall hardest hit as UK loses out on £11.4bn in EU regional funding after Brexit

Britain is set to lose around €13 billion – or £11.4 billion – in regional funding from the European Union after Brexit, according to a major study released on in Brussels today.
UK regions such as Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland would have been entitled to a 22 per cent raise in support from the EU under the budget plans for the 2021-2027 period, up from the €10.6 billion or £9.3 billion that the UK receives in the current 2014-2020 budget package, according to the report, by a network association of European regions.
The theoretical hike in funding is due to the fact that many areas of the UK are falling behind the EU average in terms of regional income. This has been exacerbated in recent years by Britain’s widening wealth gap, in particular between Greater London – which is statistically the EU’s richest region – and the rest of the country.
Wales and Cornwall
This funding loss will be most keenly felt in two regions: Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly, and West Wales and the Welsh Valleys. These are classed as ‘less developed regions’, and currently receive most of the UK’s regional funding.
Three additional areas would have been able to join them in the post-2020 period: South Yorkshire, Tees Valley & Durham, and Lincolnshire. All five of these regions stood to receive EU support in excess of €500 or £440 per capita per year for the seven-year period. The report, published by the Conference of Peripheral Maritime Regions, a network of 160 coastal regions in 25 European countries. Its members include the Welsh Government, several local authorities in Scotland, and Cornwall Council and Southend-on-Sea Borough Council.

 

[Senex]

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-wales-cornwall-regional-funding-eu/
Wales and Cornwall hardest hit as UK loses out on £11.4bn in EU regional funding after Brexit

These are areas that voted to leave. They'll be getting exactly what they voted for. What's the problem (unless they're going to expect the British taxpayers to pay them similar grants instead)?

 

[Esker-pades]

Interesting experience from Wetherspoons staff (taken from Owen Jones' Facebook page):

As a former Wetherspoons manager here. We the staff during the [Brexit] referendum were contractually obliged to put out pro-Brexit propaganda at the behest of Tim Martin's personal agenda. The staff at our pub unilaterally agreed we did not support the propaganda and resorted to binning as much as we could until we started getting regular unannounced inspections from regional and head management to ensure compliance. It was therefore deemed gross misconduct for us to ignore directives from head office and non-compliance would of course be disciplined.

The bottom line was we as working class bar and kitchen staff were not fabulously wealth enough to risk our employment and so we obliged. We faced abuse for policies we did not believe in. We were spat at, cheered, jeered, had drinks thrown at us on occasion and were still serving on the day of the results pouring celebratory pints of Guinness for "taking our country back".

There was non outrage on our behalf, he can suffer a hot on a damn receipt.

 

[furnessvale]

These are areas that voted to leave. They'll be getting exactly what they voted for. What's the problem (unless they're going to expect the British taxpayers to pay them similar grants instead)?

The British taxpayer WILL have the cash to pay similar grants and have £billions in change as well.

Whether those grants are paid will be a matter for the elected UK government.

 

[nidave]

More money flowing out

Two key markets are moving out of the U.K. as Brexit forces finance firms to put more of the region’s trading infrastructure on the continent.

CME Group Inc. will move its foreign-exchange forwards and swaps venue, which has trading volumes of about $15 billion a day, from London to Amsterdam, while Cboe Global Markets Inc. will shift most European equities trading to its market in the Dutch capital after Brexit.

Transaction fees that currently generate tax revenue for the U.K. Treasury will in future go to the Dutch authorities.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-21/brexit-forces-equity-foreign-exchange-markets-to-leave-london?utm_medium=social&utm_content=brexit&utm_source=twitter&cmpid==socialflow-facebook-brexit&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic

 

[Senex]

The British taxpayer WILL have the cash to pay similar grants and have £billions in change as well.

Whether those grants are paid will be a matter for the elected UK government.

I thought The Bus promised all the £350 million a week “savings” to the NHS. And as for the elected government, would that be one like that that failed to win a majority in an election called at a time of its own choosing and stays in power only by buying the votes of the nastiest extremist party presently at Westminster?

 

[nidave]

The British taxpayer WILL have the cash to pay similar grants and have £billions in change as well.

Whether those grants are paid will be a matter for the elected UK government.

Will they - have you a source for that - with an extra £350 million already allocated to the NHS (according to the bus I am sure I have seen)

What about other areas and scientific grants etc?

 

[furnessvale]

Interesting experience from Wetherspoons staff (taken from Owen Jones' Facebook page):

Interesting indeed. The abuse they suffered must have been coming from REMAIN supporters who, we are constantly being told, are paragons of virtue.

 

[furnessvale]

Will they - have you a source for that - with an extra £350 million already allocated to the NHS (according to the bus I am sure I have seen)

What about other areas and scientific grants etc?

My second sentence clearly states it will be a matter for the government where it spends the money.

Whichever way you try and spin it, the UK gives far more to the EU than it gets back. That makes the EU a net contributor unless remain logic changes the UK to net recipients?

This means that the UK government can match ALL existing grants and still have extra cash for the NHS if it wants. By the way, the bus never said ALL the cash would go to the NHS, but given that we only get back about a third of what we send to the EU, there would appear to be sufficient cash to do both.

 

[ungreat]

My second sentence clearly states it will be a matter for the government where it spends the money.

Whichever way you try and spin it, the UK gives far more to the EU than it gets back. That makes the EU a net contributor unless remain logic changes the UK to net recipients?

This means that the UK government can match ALL existing grants and still have extra cash for the NHS if it wants. By the way, the bus never said ALL the cash would go to the NHS, but given that we only get back about a third of what we send to the EU, there would appear to be sufficient cash to do both.

We will have no trade deals in place if we crash out on no deal....how are we going to fund anything at all? No trade..no money!
From a filthy remoaning traitor!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting indeed. The abuse they suffered must have been coming from REMAIN supporters who, we are constantly being told, are paragons of virtue.

While the owner of 'Spoons has every legal right to do what he is doing with the anti-EU propaganda, it is morally highly questionable and I'm not surprised[1] staff, as his proxy, are coming under verbal attack for it. He really should have thought of this before pushing his propaganda via the pub network.

In particular it is absolutely reprehensible for an employer to insist on employees pushing a political view they do not agree with, with the one exception of if they were employees of a political party or official Campaign. I would go so far as to say that doing so should be a criminal offence with a severe penalty, as it is anti-democratic and a gross abuse of power.

For the record, I would have just as much of an issue with it were he pushing a pro-Remain agenda. It simply is not the place for it.

[1] This does not make it OK, but it's like I'm not *surprised* Northern staff may come under verbal attack for the poor service resulting from the strikes.

 

[nidave]

How about an opinion from a Former Aussie trade negotiator (WTO) explaining trade to see why no deal and WTO would be bad.
(he is worth a follow on Twitter)
https://soundcloud.com/dmitry-grozo...inski-with-adrian-chiles-and-friends-bbc5live

 

[Basher]

We will have no trade deals in place if we crash out on no deal....how are we going to fund anything at all? No trade..no money!
From a filthy remoaning traitor!!

So the world is just going to stop. Think positive look at the opportunities it will open up for the entrepreneurs in this country. This UK is the best country in the world only let down by second rate politicians. You do not need any experience or qualifications to be an MP, just tow a party line and you will do. I am proud to be British. I do not see any drop in numbers of people wanting to come to the UK both legally and illegally.

 

[nidave]

By the way, the bus never said ALL the cash would go to the NHS, but given that we only get back about a third of what we send to the EU, there would appear to be sufficient cash to do both.

There is no mention of anything other than the NHS on the bus - unless its in the small print.

 

[ungreat]

So the world is just going to stop. Think positive look at the opportunities it will open up for the entrepreneurs in this country. This UK is the best country in the world only let down by second rate politicians. You do not need any experience or qualifications to be an MP, just tow a party line and you will do. I am proud to be British. I do not see any drop in numbers of people wanting to come to the UK both legally and illegally.

Really...is that what you've got?
What opportunities? Don't start blathering on about trade deals as we can't strike ANY until we are fully out so forget that line. Plus no withdrawal agreement... no deal..no transition. No trade deals. At all.
As for the non payment of the 39 Billion...forget any trade with anyone as the UK will be seen as untrustworthy if its not paid.
When will leavers see this? WTO is NOT an option. No one trades solely on WTO.

 

[Basher]

Keep carm, it's not british to get excited. You don't think for 1 minute that a responsible goverment has not already started discussion on the quite.

 

[ungreat]

Eh?
Can you repost that please?

 

[ungreat]

Keep carm, it's not british to get excited. You don't think for 1 minute that a responsible goverment has not already started discussion on the quite.

I think you mean calm and quiet.
And we don't currently have a responsible government...just imbeciles and idiots

 

[Groningen]

The rent for warehouses in the Netherlands for storing goods in going up.

 

[AM9]

So the world is just going to stop. Think positive look at the opportunities it will open up for the entrepreneurs in this country. This UK is the best country in the world only let down by second rate politicians. You do not need any experience or qualifications to be an MP, just tow a party line and you will do. I am proud to be British. I do not see any drop in numbers of people wanting to come to the UK both legally and illegally.

So leaving the EU is a speculator's charter. That's OK with you as long as there are plenty of serfs around to suffer the consequences then?

 

[HH]

The £350m was only ever the gross figure, which ignored the money we get back. Then there's the extra costs we will incur to replace that part of the money going to the EU for joint projects. And then there's the additional costs we will incur due to not being part of the EU. Take them all into account and we'd be lucky to see 35p. And all that's before the massive one-off costs we will have.

Even if in the long run we might have slightly lower visible costs, it's a bit like saying that conductors should leave RMT, because they'd save their subscriptions. Leave never did and never will make economic sense.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Keep carm, it's not british to get excited. You don't think for 1 minute that a responsible goverment has not already started discussion on the quite.

You consider the present Government responsible?