Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[Lothian_Bus]

Confirmed: No. (at least I haven't seen any confirmation)
Speculated: Yes. (likely routes like service 31)

Will hopefully be announced on Sunday the 3rd of February 2019, when they are launched.

(1500th post on this thread.)

The 37 has also been suggested in this thread. If there are 42 new buses then perhaps both the 31 and 37.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

People have said the last 12 are for the Airlink

If true this would result in a frequency reduction down to every 15 minutes

If you took into consideration the cutbacks and route changes that would likely happen then the 31 and 37 would add up for the other 30 of them

 

[VioletEclipse]

People have said the last 12 are for the Airlink

If true this would result in a frequency reduction down to every 15 minutes

If you took into consideration the cutbacks and route changes that would likely happen then the 31 and 37 would add up for the other 30 of them

so that would be 1093-1104 (presumably their numbers) replacing almost 2 year old Gemini Threes on the 100 (496-510), which replaced then 2 year old Gemini Threes on the 100 (426-437) in 2017. An update to the Airlink fleet every 2 years is a bit excessive, right?

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Correct me if I am wrong but all B8Ls delivered to date are in madder and not Airlink livery so if they were for the 100, surely they'd have had at least one Airlink dressed bus for the launch? Given also that the current Airlink are on 17 plates (except one 15 plate) then I'd not expect them to be changed until March 2020 at the earliest.

Also, if they were for the Airlink, they would not seat 100 people due to luggage racks and that would take away from the "these buses seat 100 people" tagline that they have got.

I'm sure I read somewhere that there (or was) a 3 year limit on the age of Airlink buses although given one is on a 15, so coming up for 4 years in March, not sure if that was true or not.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

so that would be 1093-1104 (presumably their numbers) replacing almost 2 year old Gemini Threes on the 100 (496-510), which replaced then 2 year old Gemini Threes on the 100 (426-437) in 2017. An update to the Airlink fleet every 2 years is a bit excessive, right?

I hope they aren't going to the Airlink. Wouldn't be surprised though.

If the launch of these buses is going to result in timetable changes then we should be hearing about any planned changes very soon.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Correct me if I am wrong but all B8Ls delivered to date are in madder and not Airlink livery so if they were for the 100, surely they'd have had at least one Airlink dressed bus for the launch? Given also that the current Airlink are on 17 plates (except one 15 plate) then I'd not expect them to be changed until March 2020 at the earliest.

Also, if they were for the Airlink, they would not seat 100 people due to luggage racks and that would take away from the "these buses seat 100 people" tagline that they have got.

I'm sure I read somewhere that there (or was) a 3 year limit on the age of Airlink buses although given one is on a 15, so coming up for 4 years in March, not sure if that was true or not.

Not sure about the E400XLBs, but the 15 plate you speak of (Gemini Three 427 (SA15 VTE)) was repainted and retrimmed in December, and now mainly works on non-Airlink Central services.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Correct me if I am wrong but all B8Ls delivered to date are in madder and not Airlink livery so if they were for the 100, surely they'd have had at least one Airlink dressed bus for the launch? Given also that the current Airlink are on 17 plates (except one 15 plate) then I'd not expect them to be changed until March 2020 at the earliest.

Also, if they were for the Airlink, they would not seat 100 people due to luggage racks and that would take away from the "these buses seat 100 people" tagline that they have got.

I'm sure I read somewhere that there (or was) a 3 year limit on the age of Airlink buses although given one is on a 15, so coming up for 4 years in March, not sure if that was true or not.

That one bus (427) is now on regular Central services so I assume they are coping with a fleet of 15 buses.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Thanks, it was 427 I was referring too. I had not realised it had been put on regular service. So therefore all Airlink are on 17 plates (and Skylink are on 15/67 plates)

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

427 was reportedly repainted so it could run normal runs whilst also act as a back up for new vehicles that were due hence why some think that the last 12 E400XLB's are for the Airlink. Me thinks if all this is true 496-510 would stay at Central for the 27

427 does look kinda stupid running mainly on the 10 with the tables and the large luggage rack

VOSA changes (normally) come through a good 5 or 6 weeks prior

 

[Jordan Adam]

Correct me if I am wrong but all B8Ls delivered to date are in madder and not Airlink livery so if they were for the 100, surely they'd have had at least one Airlink dressed bus for the launch? Given also that the current Airlink are on 17 plates (except one 15 plate) then I'd not expect them to be changed until March 2020 at the earliest.

Also, if they were for the Airlink, they would not seat 100 people due to luggage racks and that would take away from the "these buses seat 100 people" tagline that they have got.

I'm sure I read somewhere that there (or was) a 3 year limit on the age of Airlink buses although given one is on a 15, so coming up for 4 years in March, not sure if that was true or not.

Wouldn't a cut to Every 15 Minutes be a bit drastic? However it's hard to work out how frequent the 100 is currently. Every time i'm down buses appear to run back to back with huge gaps in the service! With Airlink you could probably remove the second door as you'd be unlikely to have large numbers of people getting on and off at stops en-route. So that's 4 seats back.

I'd doubt there is an actual age limit, certainly that older Gemini that was used on it a while back was much older than 3 years! Perhaps they have a preference to when vehicles are replace. Stagecoach North Scotland for example like to replace the fleet roughly every 6 years on their key routes (Buchan Xpress, 10, 11, Coastrider, JET727).

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The Airlink presently runs every 7 mins

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

The Airlink presently runs every 7 mins

Ok, in that case then, it's presently 79 seats every seven minutes. That's 1 seat every ~5.32 seconds. That means for 100 seats, you'd need a bus every 532 seconds, rounded up to every 9 minutes.

So realistically and mathematically, if passenger numbers were to remain neutral, and the buses were to be changed to Enviro400 XLBs, you'd need a bus every 9 minutes instead of every 7 minutes.

 

[overthewater]

Thats not the problem its the sitecases, on top of that the Airlinks have tables upstairs so the number is lower. Every 10mins should be alright overall.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Ok, in that case then, it's presently 79 seats every seven minutes. That's 1 seat every ~5.32 seconds. That means for 100 seats, you'd need a bus every 532 seconds, rounded up to every 9 minutes.

So realistically and mathematically, if passenger numbers were to remain neutral, and the buses were to be changed to Enviro400 XLBs, you'd need a bus every 9 minutes instead of every 7 minutes.

No idea where I got 15 from. Been a non stop week for me. Assuming PVR is 10 or 11 with 1 or 2 spare (and 427 too) then every 9 or 10 mins sounds realistic

Thats not the problem its the sitecases, on top of that the Airlinks have tables upstairs so the number is lower. Every 10mins should be alright overall.

There's no longer tables upstairs. The upstairs seating arrangement is just like every other B5 in the fleet (apart from 427 of course)


The whole thing about having these buses I think is a cost-cutting measure. On average they'll spend the same on buses but in the very long term I reckon around 150 buses could be made redundant if this idea keeps going. This of course doesn't take into account a growing city but at least 100 fewer buses could be required in the next 5 years

Out of curiosity anyone know how much one of these 'monster buses' actually costs compared to a regular B5TL

 

[overthewater]

How many buses will be taken off the road once the trams go down Leith walk and the waterfront? I dont think the number of buses will decrease I think even with the growing city the overall buses will stagnate because of the trams.

 

[OmniCity999]

Its thought that 904-905 are see use on the 3 bridges tour.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Its thought that 904-905 are see use on the 3 bridges tour.

why not 905-906, as they are currently the wrapped ones?

 

[Gingerbus1991]

No idea where I got 15 from. Been a non stop week for me. Assuming PVR is 10 or 11 with 1 or 2 spare (and 427 too) then every 9 or 10 mins sounds realistic

There's no longer tables upstairs. The upstairs seating arrangement is just like every other B5 in the fleet (apart from 427 of course)


The whole thing about having these buses I think is a cost-cutting measure. On average they'll spend the same on buses but in the very long term I reckon around 150 buses could be made redundant if this idea keeps going. This of course doesn't take into account a growing city but at least 100 fewer buses could be required in the next 5 years

Out of curiosity anyone know how much one of these 'monster buses' actually costs compared to a regular B5TL

The B5’s you’ll find on the 22’s cost roughly £225,000, the B5 Hybrids on the 300 were roughly £235,000 with a grant, I suspect these will cost nearer the £280,000 mark, each.
I think the purchase cost should be justifiable given that enough smaller buses can be moved or removed from service.

 

[ScotRail158725]

112 is the Harlequin single deck for any wondering not 115

 

[Lothian_Bus]

why not 905-906, as they are currently the wrapped ones?

One explanation could be that as 904 is Marine and 905 is Longstone each depot will only lose 1 bus each but that's really just a guess.

 

[VioletEclipse]

112 is the Harlequin single deck for any wondering not 115

Yay! I am very much hoping that it's at the Enviro 400XLB launch on the 3rd!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Yup 115 was a pile anyway so glad in that respect that 112 was picked, personally wanted 124 as it's imo the best one but 112 a decent choice nevertheless

 

[route101]

Confirmed: No. (at least I haven't seen any confirmation)
Speculated: Yes. (likely routes like service 31)

Will hopefully be announced on Sunday the 3rd of February 2019, when they are launched.

(1500th post on this thread.)

Is this launch the entry into service for these buses?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Is this launch the entry into service for these buses?

No the launch is just showing them off, they're likely to enter service with the next timetable change. We only have about 15 delivered

 

[ScotRail158725]

Anybody know the Airlink trident? I can narrow it down to 631, 634, 662-664. 628-630/633/665 are at Marine and 632 is sold on so those are the remaining options

 

[TheEastCoaster]

VOSA changes (normally) come through a good 5 or 6 weeks prior

So by that point realistically we should be getting a service change either late March or Early April, but with these new buses being allocated on select routes might not effect a certain routes timetable so it could not result in any change like when service 8 or 26 for got new buses exclusive for their routes, so i get the feeling the 31 will get them first and then possibly the 37 in the next service change when they supposedly switch routes with the 27 in Muirhouse.

Meanwhile I can hunch the new buses will be the first in the Lothian city fleet to have contactless which should roll over with the rest of the in city services.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Also on an side note what other service changes should we be expecting from both Lothian and East Coast?

I’m hoping in my opinion a few extension of pre-existing routes and a few new routes for the summer
(Here’s a list of proposed service changes I had in my mind)

Lothian
7- Extended to Ocean Terminal

21 - Runs via Wakefield Avenue to/from Portobello (Replaced by 200 in Craigentinny Avenue)

24 - Extended to The Jewel via Greendykes

38 - Extend to Granton Square on all days

N25 - Extended to Lochend Roundabout via Leith Walk and Restalig Road, continues on a one way loop via Marionville Road and Lochend Road South

30/N30 - Extended to Whitecraig via Inveresk

200 - Extended to Eastfield Terminus via Salamander Street, Seafield, Craigentinny, Portobello

300 - Extended to Royal Infirmary via Old Dalkeith Road

East Coast Buses

113 - Now runs via Western General in both directions (Mirroring 38) on Monday-Sunday, Sunday buses extend to West Granton

140 - Extended to Ocean Terminal via Portobello, Seafield, Leith Walk

New Services

Lothian
13 - Restalrig to Craigleith
Via Lochend, Dalmeny Street, Broughton, Bellevue, West End, Dean Gallary, Ravelston and Blackhall

46 - Balerno to Granton Harbour
Via Curriehill, Hermiston, Sighthill, Edinburgh Park, Gyle, Maybery, Barnton, Davidson Mains, Silverknowes, Muirhouse, West Granton

East Coast

X13 - Pencaitland to Haymarket
Via Ormiston, Tranent, A1, Brunstane, Willowbrae, Regent Road and West End

120 - North Berwick to Dunbar
Via Tantallion Castle, Whitekirk, Thyinghame, East Linton, West Barns and Belhaven.

Thoughts? it’s just a little fun but thought these changes could make sense in the long term

 

[overthewater]

None make sense, and some are just waste of time, also No13 is paid for by the council. Maybe just maybe 140,

 

[ScotRail158725]

Also on an side note what other service changes should we be expecting from both Lothian and East Coast?

I’m hoping in my opinion a few extension of pre-existing routes and a few new routes for the summer
(Here’s a list of proposed service changes I had in my mind)

Lothian
7- Extended to Ocean Terminal

21 - Runs via Wakefield Avenue to/from Portobello (Replaced by 200 in Craigentinny Avenue)

24 - Extended to The Jewel via Greendykes

38 - Extend to Granton Square on all days

N25 - Extended to Lochend Roundabout via Leith Walk and Restalig Road, continues on a one way loop via Marionville Road and Lochend Road South

30/N30 - Extended to Whitecraig via Inveresk

200 - Extended to Eastfield Terminus via Salamander Street, Seafield, Craigentinny, Portobello

300 - Extended to Royal Infirmary via Old Dalkeith Road

East Coast Buses

113 - Now runs via Western General in both directions (Mirroring 38) on Monday-Sunday, Sunday buses extend to West Granton

140 - Extended to Ocean Terminal via Portobello, Seafield, Leith Walk

New Services

Lothian
13 - Restalrig to Craigleith
Via Lochend, Dalmeny Street, Broughton, Bellevue, West End, Dean Gallary, Ravelston and Blackhall

46 - Balerno to Granton Harbour
Via Curriehill, Hermiston, Sighthill, Edinburgh Park, Gyle, Maybery, Barnton, Davidson Mains, Silverknowes, Muirhouse, West Granton

East Coast

X13 - Pencaitland to Haymarket
Via Ormiston, Tranent, A1, Brunstane, Willowbrae, Regent Road and West End

120 - North Berwick to Dunbar
Via Tantallion Castle, Whitekirk, Thyinghame, East Linton, West Barns and Belhaven.

Thoughts? it’s just a little fun but thought these changes could make sense in the long term

The 300 and X13 are the only one reallistic all the rest are just pointless

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

From what I gather this is what's rumoured. This is pretty much a combination of p

Airport routes will largely stay as is - with tweaks to the Airlink for the E400XLB's

31 and 37 are both expected to get route changes, some in Edinburgh and no doubt some in Midlothian as a result of the E400XLB's

ECB will tweak the odd thing here and there, nothing major though. IF an X13 came it would be an extension of a transferred X44. Nothing fancy

Not really sure what LC plan to do but I imagine that their changes will be at another time

The return of the 32 as well is highly likely - Royal Mail, College students (including myself) and school travellers to St Augustine's from the North all want this to happen. Likely route is as it was but through the industrial estate instead of Broomhouse Road - not confirmed, potentially to OT as well. Every 30 all day Monday to Friday with Singles. Reduced Frequencies at weekends. 21 will apparently reduce to every 20 mins (kept at 15 during peak) with all journeys to the Gyle and then covering Clovenstone late in the evening when it doesn't serve the Gyle and imo probably on a Sunday too. Even I can't see the demand for the 32 on a Sunday. Personally I'd rather the 21 was left alone and the 32 goes to Riccarton via the Industrial Estate to offer yet another connection to there. Again it would be well used


This is probs when contactless will go live as well