• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

First Greater Glasgow

JumpinTrainz

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
1,929
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

JumpinTrainz

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
1,929
Mr Negative here, I'm for once glad they've decided to Refurbish the corroded wheels, it manages to make the whole package look better! Pitty the interior hasn't had anything done.

First are notorious for relivering the outside but doing nothing inside. Most buses without e-leather need a retrim by now. The lilac seat coverings same to age very badly...
 

Gingerbus1991

Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
992
Wow is it just me or does the new livery not do anything for the ADL products... the E300s and E400s look a mess! The huge lilac at the front looks awful! The Wright buses look much better as they have the small curve and the bottom which just somehow looks miles better.
There is something about the lilac that doesnt sit right with me on any bus, it doesnt seem to age all that well.

Going back to a Grey/Orange colour scheme(strathclyde buses) would make this far more rejuvenated and noticable change, the lilac is far to similar to the bland barbie livery that used to be used.
 

JumpinTrainz

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
1,929
There is something about the lilac that doesnt sit right with me on any bus, it doesnt seem to age all that well.

Going back to a Grey/Orange colour scheme(strathclyde buses) would make this far more rejuvenated and noticable change, the lilac is far to similar to the bland barbie livery that used to be used.

I have to agree I definately thing Glasgow should have gone possibly black and orange. Since the other cities are going with a more meaningful local colouring scheme. Even a bit of pink on Glasgow’s buses would have been nicer than the 2 purple shades. Really not feeling it. FSE and Aberdeen look incredibly smart however.

On a separate note... if First are refurbishing their 12 year old B9TLs then surely there will be plans to do the low height E400s. Some of them are very worn inside and would benefit from a refurb.
 

Gingerbus1991

Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
992
I have to agree I definately thing Glasgow should have gone possibly black and orange. Since the other cities are going with a more meaningful local colouring scheme. Even a bit of pink on Glasgow’s buses would have been nicer than the 2 purple shades. Really not feeling it. FSE and Aberdeen look incredibly smart however.

On a separate note... if First are refurbishing their 12 year old B9TLs then surely there will be plans to do the low height E400s. Some of them are very worn inside and would benefit from a refurb.
Hence why I say I’m not sure what the person who is managing the buses is doing.

As the saying goes, too many indians not enough chiefs.

Why is someone at the very top not taking charge to put in place a business plan to have all the new buses delivered then you’d be able to send mid-life buses of in mass away for refurbishment?
Is it because there all going elsewhere to Bath, FSE and Aberdeen?

Plus if the 53 plates are to be kept even if for a short time why have I seen them going through repaints? Is doesnt make any sence if this is the case.
However, I do understand that the 06/07 plate B7’s could certainly go for major refurb and operate well into the future, look at manyof Transdevs B7’s.

ARGGHH, Monkeys in a pen running this sham.
 

JumpinTrainz

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
1,929
Hence why I say I’m not sure what the person who is managing the buses is doing.

As the saying goes, too many indians not enough chiefs.

Why is someone at the very top not taking charge to put in place a business plan to have all the new buses delivered then you’d be able to send mid-life buses of in mass away for refurbishment?
Is it because there all going elsewhere to Bath, FSE and Aberdeen?

Plus if the 53 plates are to be kept even if for a short time why have I seen them going through repaints? Is doesnt make any sence if this is the case.
However, I do understand that the 06/07 plate B7’s could certainly go for major refurb and operate well into the future, look at manyof Transdevs B7’s.

ARGGHH, Monkeys in a pen running this sham.

I wonder how they will play this out. LEZ will be here in 3 years and while bigger routes like the 18 and 75 have received new stock, the majority has gone to unaffected routes eg the 241, 65, 34. It would be good see the decker order go to routes like the 2, 4/4A, 5, 38, 60/60A. Not much in the way of singles with this order however 2020 may see a huge single deck order or with another 75 buses.

It’s interesting that the ALX400s are being relivered into Olympia livery again. Could be wrong but perhaps this indicates they may be moving elsewhere down south with them not being apapted into the new livery that First Scotland are. The B7TLs are very strong buses still and with a refurb and conversion could stay far longer but they aren’t doing anything older than a Euro 4. Interesting times ahead for First Glasgow...
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,654
Location
Aberdeen
The issue with the front of the Enviros could easily be fixed by extending the lilac on the front to cover the light clusters and the panels between them. On the Eclipses they should paint the Wright Wings lilac or silver. It's not a bad livery, but it does need some adjusting and more thought going in to application between vehicle types.

Regarding interiors, First & Stagecoach are notorious for not refreshing seats when buses go for repaints. Part of the reason is because while retrims are normally done at the buses "home" depot, repaints are usually done at the 'major' depot in the area. For example with Stagecoach North Scotland all repaints are now done by Aberdeen. With First most repaints are done by Caledonia.
 

JumpinTrainz

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
1,929
How much budget do companies tend to have for retrims and interior work? It’s pretty uncommon for First to refurb any of their buses. The seats tend to be down to the thread before they’re replaced and sometimes they even used to fit the wrong colour of fabric etc.
 

route101

Veteran Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
12,243
How much budget do companies tend to have for retrims and interior work? It’s pretty uncommon for First to refurb any of their buses. The seats tend to be down to the thread before they’re replaced and sometimes they even used to fit the wrong colour of fabric etc.

I wason a Gemini other that had one leather seat put in amongst the cloth.
 

route101

Veteran Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
12,243
I wonder how they will play this out. LEZ will be here in 3 years and while bigger routes like the 18 and 75 have received new stock, the majority has gone to unaffected routes eg the 241, 65, 34. It would be good see the decker order go to routes like the 2, 4/4A, 5, 38, 60/60A. Not much in the way of singles with this order however 2020 may see a huge single deck order or with another 75 buses.

It’s interesting that the ALX400s are being relivered into Olympia livery again. Could be wrong but perhaps this indicates they may be moving elsewhere down south with them not being apapted into the new livery that First Scotland are. The B7TLs are very strong buses still and with a refurb and conversion could stay far longer but they aren’t doing anything older than a Euro 4. Interesting times ahead for First Glasgow...

Hopefully not many singles to come. Routes like the 5 and 4 have had new buses in the past .38 and 60 deserve new buses for sure .Agree the 2 should have deckers , no reason why not.
 

route101

Veteran Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
12,243
Hence why I say I’m not sure what the person who is managing the buses is doing.

As the saying goes, too many indians not enough chiefs.

Why is someone at the very top not taking charge to put in place a business plan to have all the new buses delivered then you’d be able to send mid-life buses of in mass away for refurbishment?
Is it because there all going elsewhere to Bath, FSE and Aberdeen?

Plus if the 53 plates are to be kept even if for a short time why have I seen them going through repaints? Is doesnt make any sence if this is the case.
However, I do understand that the 06/07 plate B7’s could certainly go for major refurb and operate well into the future, look at manyof Transdevs B7’s.

ARGGHH, Monkeys in a pen running this sham.

Yeah the Geminis have got a few years to go yet .
 

route101

Veteran Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
12,243
I have to agree I definately thing Glasgow should have gone possibly black and orange. Since the other cities are going with a more meaningful local colouring scheme. Even a bit of pink on Glasgow’s buses would have been nicer than the 2 purple shades. Really not feeling it. FSE and Aberdeen look incredibly smart however.

On a separate note... if First are refurbishing their 12 year old B9TLs then surely there will be plans to do the low height E400s. Some of them are very worn inside and would benefit from a refurb.

Yeah , theres nothing Glasgow about the livery , blander than before.

I much prefer the normal low height E400s , the seats in the hybrids are too slippy . Just wish they would keep them all on the 6.
 

route101

Veteran Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
12,243
Don't think so, 32681 is in blue and has been sighted in service in Glasgow so I'd assume it was that one. Apparently there's one more moved to Glasgow as well but no word on the fleet no. yet I'm afraid.

Seen it on St Vincent street not in service with yellow school sign in front windscreen
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,654
Location
Aberdeen
Part of the issue with Glasgow is you can't have a local livery simply due to it's sheer size and the number of fleet movements.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
22,842
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
Hence why I say I’m not sure what the person who is managing the buses is doing.

As the saying goes, too many indians not enough chiefs.

Why is someone at the very top not taking charge to put in place a business plan to have all the new buses delivered then you’d be able to send mid-life buses of in mass away for refurbishment?
Is it because there all going elsewhere to Bath, FSE and Aberdeen?

Plus if the 53 plates are to be kept even if for a short time why have I seen them going through repaints? Is doesnt make any sence if this is the case.
However, I do understand that the 06/07 plate B7’s could certainly go for major refurb and operate well into the future, look at manyof Transdevs B7’s.

ARGGHH, Monkeys in a pen running this sham.

Yeah, bet they're not even proper bus men....

There is clearly a plan in getting in new vehicles and refurbing others though, as has been explained, there are limits to how much capital spend there is available to OpCo managers. Like in most other firms, bus operators or not.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
22,842
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
How much budget do companies tend to have for retrims and interior work? It’s pretty uncommon for First to refurb any of their buses. The seats tend to be down to the thread before they’re replaced and sometimes they even used to fit the wrong colour of fabric etc.
It depends. Remember that this has to be either taken in trading (a big one off hit) or through capital expenditure.

As I mentioned (on another thread?), it varies across the First empire. First Cymru are busy refurbishing a number of Eclipses, First Worcester have refurbished batches of Eclipses and Citaros, First Berkshire are refurbishing their Volvo Hybrids, and First Bristol have refurbished various B7TL/ALX400s, Eclipses, B9TL/Geminis in recent months/years.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/neilj...-HyzVo4-G2Av5B-28js3Af-28RrS18-24Csd85-KJosVa
https://www.flickr.com/photos/joshs-bus-pics/44261314040/in/pool-1627471@N21/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/north...aA-Xv9ahy-B7QrTR-a7hPB2-27AkFof-9xhcgA-VBmjaU
 

Gingerbus1991

Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
992
Yeah, bet they're not even proper bus men....

There is clearly a plan in getting in new vehicles and refurbing others though, as has been explained, there are limits to how much capital spend there is available to OpCo managers. Like in most other firms, bus operators or not.
Capital Spend?

The one thing wrong with glasgow is the fact that Capitol Spend wasnt provided far earlier here, its left thousands with a bad taste in there mouth.

There is a general sense in Glasgow, even amongst a few friends that the latest new buses are still overshadowed by an unreliable, overpriced service for the fact thats what we’ve had for years it seems lost in Glasgow from which I believe nowadays, in the last 10 years anyway that far more people expect far more for the cash there having to pay and first in glasgow are failing to deliver, its not just an Aberdeen thing nor a scottish thing but a UK wide issue.

when you realise that the £100m that First have apparently spent on the buses in glasgow its only being spent because first are forced too through regulations, otherwise nothing wouldve been renewed too any measurable amount.

If first want to make an impact on the impression there making in glasgow there efforts need doubled, constantly cold buses, dirty buses and stinkin attitudes from there drivers.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
22,842
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
Capital Spend?

The one thing wrong with glasgow is the fact that Capitol Spend wasnt provided far earlier here, its left thousands with a bad taste in there mouth.

There is a general sense in Glasgow, even amongst a few friends that the latest new buses are still overshadowed by an unreliable, overpriced service for the fact thats what we’ve had for years it seems lost in Glasgow from which I believe nowadays, in the last 10 years anyway that far more people expect far more for the cash there having to pay and first in glasgow are failing to deliver, its not just an Aberdeen thing nor a scottish thing but a UK wide issue.

when you realise that the £100m that First have apparently spent on the buses in glasgow its only being spent because first are forced too through regulations, otherwise nothing wouldve been renewed too any measurable amount.

If first want to make an impact on the impression there making in glasgow there efforts need doubled, constantly cold buses, dirty buses and stinkin attitudes from there drivers.

Yes - you’ve said ad nauseum.

Proper bus men eh?
 

glasgowniteowl

On Moderation
Joined
25 Jan 2019
Messages
477
Location
Glasgow
Hi newbie here, just a quick question does anyone here know the notice period to leave first in glasgow? Have another job opportunity and can't lay my hands on my contract and this forum popped up on Google so thought I'd see if anyone here knew for certain

Thanks!!
 

Observer

Member
Joined
3 Nov 2014
Messages
798
Part of the issue with Glasgow is you can't have a local livery simply due to it's sheer size and the number of fleet movements.
Could still have done something with the rear similar to FSE and now Aberdeen, especially if the whole point was so that it'd be easier and quicker to repaint if a transfer happened.
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,654
Location
Aberdeen
Could still have done something with the rear similar to FSE and now Aberdeen, especially if the whole point was so that it'd be easier and quicker to repaint if a transfer happened.

Perhaps, but Glasgow is over 850 buses vs about 150 in Aberdeen. Aberdeen has 1 set of minor fleet movements per year (often it doesn't have any), with Glasgow there's a number each month. There needs to be an understanding that a local livery in Glasgow just won't work, it's not realistic.
 

Gingerbus1991

Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
992
Hi newbie here, just a quick question does anyone here know the notice period to leave first in glasgow? Have another job opportunity and can't lay my hands on my contract and this forum popped up on Google so thought I'd see if anyone here knew for certain

Thanks!!
I only gave 1 week, but that was nearly 10 years ago
 

SarahDFIG

Member
Joined
9 Jan 2019
Messages
407
Seen a few 254s today and they were 65 plate E200s
254 gets hit with anything these days. Mostly darts but you do get the b10s,7s, and enviros on them. Buses you seen would have been 240 branded as few of the streetlites have been on the 240 recently along with non branded e200s
 

Bus Lightyear

Member
Joined
16 Nov 2018
Messages
542
Capital Spend?

The one thing wrong with glasgow is the fact that Capitol Spend wasnt provided far earlier here, its left thousands with a bad taste in there mouth.

There is a general sense in Glasgow, even amongst a few friends that the latest new buses are still overshadowed by an unreliable, overpriced service for the fact thats what we’ve had for years it seems lost in Glasgow from which I believe nowadays, in the last 10 years anyway that far more people expect far more for the cash there having to pay and first in glasgow are failing to deliver, its not just an Aberdeen thing nor a scottish thing but a UK wide issue.

when you realise that the £100m that First have apparently spent on the buses in glasgow its only being spent because first are forced too through regulations, otherwise nothing wouldve been renewed too any measurable amount.

If first want to make an impact on the impression there making in glasgow there efforts need doubled, constantly cold buses, dirty buses and stinkin attitudes from there drivers.

Some inaccuracies and unfair overgeneralisations in your post.

Majority of drivers I've encountered whether it be First, Stagecoach, Citybus or McGills (including Arriva before that) are very professional and very good at their jobs who do well to cope with the pressures of early starts, long shifts, poor weather, heavy congestion, rude and obnoxious passengers, inconsiderate road users etc. There are always a few that let the side down but you'll get that in any industry.

You're aren't comparing apples with apples when you use Lothian as an example as they are very well funded and are able to afford to run their business in a way that the big groups can't. Also, Edinburgh hasn't suffered the same levels of depopulation (especially around the inner city) and deindustrialisation over a number of years like Glasgow has and many bus passengers have been lost as a result.

Nobody knows what the future holds but it seems to me that First are making a better effort under their new Scottish MD than previous leadership. No bus operator is perfect but I would say in Scotland only Lothian (for their presentation and clear information) and Stagecoach Fife Scottish (excellent long distance routes) are better than First Glasgow who at least offer good value with their monthly and annual tickets which Lothian don't.
 
Last edited:

lastbus

Member
Joined
9 Sep 2018
Messages
1,025
254 gets hit with anything these days. Mostly darts but you do get the b10s,7s, and enviros on them. Buses you seen would have been 240 branded as few of the streetlites have been on the 240 recently along with non branded e200s

67058 non branded e200mmc that was on the 254 yesterday.
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,654
Location
Aberdeen
:rolleyes:

Some inaccuracies and unfair overgeneralisations in your post.

Majority of drivers I've encountered whether it be First, Stagecoach, Citybus or McGills (including Arriva before that) are very professional and very good at their jobs who do well to cope with the pressures of early starts, long shifts, poor weather, heavy congestion, rude and obnoxious passengers, inconsiderate road users etc. There are always a few that let the side down but you'll get that in any industry.

You're aren't comparing apples with apples when you use Lothian as an example as they are very well funded and are able to afford to run their business in a way that the big groups can't. Also, Edinburgh hasn't the suffered the same levels of depopulation (especially around the inner city) and deindustrialisation over a number of years like Glasgow has and many bus passengers have been lost as a result.

Nobody knows what the future holds but it seems to me that First are making a better effort under their new Scottish MD than previous leadership. No bus operator is perfect but I would say in Scotland only Lothian (for their presentation and clear information) and Stagecoach Fife Scottish (excellent long distance routes) are better than First Glasgow who at least offer good value with their monthly and annual tickets which Lothian don't.

Some interesting points made, all companies have good and bad staff it's as simple as that.

One of the issues i often see is that people are always fast to point the finger and consistently moan, but they never to in to account external (And sometimes past internal) factors. I think on a Scotland wide basis Edinburgh is a very special and unique case. The city almost has the perfect layout and passenger flow for a public transport network. Aberdeen (and perhaps Glasgow) may have the students, but it doesn't have the tourism or the scale of events throughout the year that Edinburgh has which attracts people to the centre. Edinburgh also has decent bus priority which other cities severely lack, we're not even touching on the fact that it has the busiest Airport in Scotland along with an expansive and bloody expensive tour bus network. Stagecoach are pretty good when it comes to marketing and the East Scotland Express services are quite impressive. However from what people i know in that area tell me, the Express services are well run and reliable while the more local services suffer.
 

Bus Lightyear

Member
Joined
16 Nov 2018
Messages
542
FYI..Manky

No wonder ridership is going down

And that is thanks to our wonderful public, not the bus companies. Sadly some areas will never deserve new buses or refurbs but they still get them. I don't know if you remember Strathclyde's Buses and probably KCB Network the last 5 or 6 rows on the top deck the seats were hard plastic to save money on vandalism repairs. Was it not also the case about 10-15 years ago that Glasgow was the worst city in the UK for broken bus windows?
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,654
Location
Aberdeen
And that is thanks to our wonderful public, not the bus companies. Sadly some areas will never deserve new buses or refurbs but they still get them. I don't know if you remember Strathclyde's Buses and probably KCB Network the last 5 or 6 rows on the top deck the seats were hard plastic to save money on vandalism repairs. Was it not also the case about 10-15 years ago that Glasgow was the worst city in the UK for broken bus windows?

Glasgow has a bad reputation for vandals etching on the windows. Further to that a number of E500s and the Tridents acquired by Aberdeen in 2013 all had plastic bits of trim over the first 1/3th of the lower seat to stop peoples feet damaging the fabrics. Truth be told this is a issue that extends way further back than First, and such damage to the seats shown in the photo can be done in quite a short period of time.
 

Top