[Trivia] Lines with the MOST fare evasion

[camflyer]

The line between Haslemere and Guildford is a massive hotspot for fare evasion, colloquially known as the "free line" by a number of people I know.

Although that could come to an end with the recent installation of barriers at Godalming.

I used to commute between Godalming and Guildford on a monthly season ticket in the 90s. You used to have to just wave your ticket in the general direction of any ticket inspector - and you got to know the regular ones - until one of them insisted on looking at the ticket. I was surprised to find out that it was over a month out of date and I had just forgotten to renew it.

Guildford soon got barriers after that which made such a oversight impossible

 

[Parallel]

It wouldn’t surprise me if there was a lot of fare evasion on the HOW line between Keynsham and Warminster/Frome. The barriers at Bath have improved things somewhat, but they are very regularly open in the morning/evening peak.

South Wales Valleys must be high.

 

[leedslad82]

I used to travel regularly for work on the leeds to keighley line. Use to really annoy me as i had a season ticket but so mamy travelled without paying. There were certain staff that when i saw them open the doors at keighley i knew wouldn't check tickets. Then on the section between shipley and leeds they would come through offering to sell tickets but never checked. Even though leeds is barriered you would see loads tailgating to get through the barriers i would deliberately walk through slowly so they couldnt get through behind me.

 

[mallard]

Technically, the Chiltern "ghost train" from West Ealing to High Wycombe has no valid tickets! Even the direct fares are all routed "via Greenford" or "via London", the route does not appear in the RG and High Wycombe is outside the London zonal system.

While Chiltern Railways have stated that they'll accept (which is entirely different from them being actually valid) tickets that would otherwise be valid if the train had run from Marylebone or Paddington, technically, 100% of passengers on the route have not paid the correct fare (since one does not exist). That's 100% "fare evasion" on that route!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Technically, the Chiltern "ghost train" from West Ealing to High Wycombe has no valid tickets! Even the direct fares are all routed "via Greenford" or "via London", the route does not appear in the RG and High Wycombe is outside the London zonal system.

While Chiltern Railways have stated that they'll accept (which is entirely different from them being actually valid) tickets that would otherwise be valid if the train had run from Marylebone or Paddington, technically, 100% of passengers on the route have not paid the correct fare (since one does not exist). That's 100% "fare evasion" on that route!

Erm, not quite true. A Travelcard with the appropriate zones is valid, even if nothing else were. And easements 700831 and 700832 explicitly "via Greenford" or "via London" tickets to be used on the once-a-day through service, respectively in each direction.

 

[mallard]

And easements 700831 and 700832 explicitly "via Greenford" or "via London" tickets to be used on the once-a-day through service, respectively in each direction.

Fair enough, although I believe those easements were added after the service started running, so it was at least (nearly; I guess outboundary travelcards would have been valid as you say) the case that no fares were valid initially.

 

[IceAgeComing]

I've lived on the North Kent line since October and have never had my ticket checked; they played a ticket check annoucement when the train pulled into Woolwich Arsenal once but I was switching to the DLR to head to towards Stratford so I got off. Abbey Wood and London Bridge are both barriered now which I guess reduces fare evasion on that route but I guess that you get people doubling up and stuff at peak times. It probably eliminates people who are OK with not paying casually but would not actively do things like that to not pay. They also have barriers at Woolwich Arsenal but I've literally never seen them in use: I guess at peak times mainly but I've gone to the station at 6:30pm on a weekday and they are all open.

It'd be impossible to barrier a lot of the stations on the route without remoddeling them somehow. Take Greenwich as an example; you kind of have two separate entrances. On one side of the station you have the Southeastern station building which is only opened when the ticket office is open which would be tricky to barrier; and then when that is closed the access on that side of the station is a narrow gate which you'd like be able to fit a single barrier in which would not be sensible. On the other side of the station you've got the main access for the DLR platforms which also has a public underpass used both by people going to and from Greenwich High Road and railway users; access to the London platform (I'm ignoring the DLR here since they check more) in by a lift and a relatively narrow staircase and access to the Dartford platform is a totally exposed modern staircase/ramp arrangement. There isn't really a way to barrier the station without annoying people in some way - either local residents by making that underpass for passengers only and barriering both ends or passengers by blocking off the old National Rail entrance at night and making people walk a longer distance - can't block off the other end since that's where the step-free access is. Whatever way you did it you'd have two gatelines, one of which would be very exposed and not near any actual station facilities so it'd be expensive to staff and I imagine those asked to do it probably wouldn't find it a very nice shift.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Am right in saying that travelling on a less expensive route is always valid on a ticket for a more expensive route?

Yes, although you may be required to hand over your ticket (temporarily) if the guard insists on issuing a zero fare excess. Note that this doesn't apply to season tickets, where you must, for whatever strange reason, obtain the (presumably zero fare) excess before travelling, if facilities to do so exist.

And of course you can't travel on a route that's forbidden by geographic ticket routings - e.g. before the easements were introduced, you couldn't (officially speaking) use a West Ealing to High Wycombe ticket on the once-a-day service, as it's routed via Greenford and the service doesn't go via Greenford station.

 

[Meerkat]

How much of the on train ticket buying is really attempted evasion?
Turning up a bit early to make sure there isn’t too long a queue to muck about in the cold with a TVM.....or turn up on time, jump on, and pay when asked.
If there was little chance of getting a penalty fare I would tend to go for the latter, and I reckon quite a few don’t even realise it isn’t what you are supposed to do - there is a bloke who sells tickets on the train, so I get him to sell me a ticket..,.

 

[Stopper]

Probably the same elsewhere where operators have non gangwayed stock and the guard has to remain in the rear unit. I'm thinking Scotrail Glasgow to Edinburgh services with folk boarding at Polmont/Linlithgow and heading towards Falkirk

The E-G has to be one of the most ‘fare evaded’ route whether it be the much publicised flexipass fraud, the intermediate travel, people saying they got on at the last stop when they arrive at Edinburgh/Glasgow, or (most commonly) the conductor cannot get up and down the train to check.

Intermediate travel between Linlithgow, the Falkirk area and Stirling is pretty well known to be bad for fare evasion. The Dunblane trains are rarely ever checked during the day.

As for other routes, I have noticed on the Inverclyde line, particularly between the Cardonald/Hillington stations and between Greenock stations there is a lot of really obvious fair evasion.

 

[DanTrain]

How much of the on train ticket buying is really attempted evasion?
Turning up a bit early to make sure there isn’t too long a queue to muck about in the cold with a TVM.....or turn up on time, jump on, and pay when asked.
If there was little chance of getting a penalty fare I would tend to go for the latter, and I reckon quite a few don’t even realise it isn’t what you are supposed to do - there is a bloke who sells tickets on the train, so I get him to sell me a ticket..,.

Indeed, certainly in Northernland the policy is so direly unclear and patchily enforced on at least some lines that many people do just that, most of whom are perfectly willing to buy a ticket but aren’t going to go out of their way to do so at their destination when they can just walk off.

 

[bramling]

Following on from the least fare evasion thread, which lines have the most fare evasion. I’ll nominate Sheffield to Meadowhall as a good start, no barriers, very rarely any ticket checks on the <10 min journey and if you are checked you can just buy one on board!

I wonder if Wrexham/Bidston might be worth a shout. I suspect there’s plenty of “pay if and when asked” types who pay when the guard comes round, but on the (few) occasions I’ve travelled on this line there’s been a noticeable contingent of “jump on and disappear into the toilet for the whole journey” and “can’t pay, what are you going to do?” types.

Needless to say most of the stations don’t have ticket facilities, but equally the guards do seem to come round consistently.

 

[ricoblade]

Birchwood-warrington. They would look for the flashing light to indicate where the guard was and pile on at the opposite carriage or the other set when a 6 car. It was a relatively safe bet if the guard was at the GOP they were working forward so jumping on the back carriage usually avoided being ticketed

Sheffield to Lincoln service. You can see people scope where the guard is and then move to the other end of the train hoping the guard won't get to them before their station, it's that obvious.

 

[DH1Commuter]

I've posted about this before, but Durham and Chester-Le-Street to Newcastle - little chance of a ticket check or barriers working (though thankfully the latter are seeing a little more use in the last week/now than they were in December), and only TPE seem at all bothered about on-train checks.

I'd also go with Sheffield to Worksop/Lincoln.

 

[Typhoon]

Lots of journeys on Southeastern during the evening peak. Plenty of unstaffed stations, more ungated (even on gated stations they may be open as there are no staff). Pick a journey filled with school kids or college students, the guard has no chance. They'll be lucky to be able to get far out of their cab. I can safely put my ticket in my inside pocket knowing it won't be needed en route.

 

[SoccerHQ]

Following on from the least fare evasion thread, which lines have the most fare evasion. I’ll nominate Sheffield to Meadowhall as a good start, no barriers, very rarely any ticket checks on the <10 min journey and if you are checked you can just buy one on board!

Disagree with that one if you mean alighting at Meadowhall itself. There are usually staff on the paths towards the centre checking tickets.

Chesterfield to Sheffield would be a better one from that area.

 

[SoccerHQ]

Certainly needs to be more ticket machines at stations.

Was actually going to start a thread on that but probably best in here given it's a topic, how many does your local station have?

My local Sutton Coldfield has the grand total of one on the platform, none on the concourse.

It's a big problem in the mornings between half 8-9 when there can be queues of people buying tickets. One that really winds me up is when they're putting in the codes for pre orded tickets to London. One guy was actually amazed when I inform him you could just do at New Street where there are many more TMs....

Anyway if I've got a tight connection at New Street I just hop on rather than to queue tbh and then get the ticket onboard. Can be tending not to bother though considering New Street becomes gateless from 10am most mornings....

 

[SoccerHQ]

Having travelled Preston/London , AM peak recently I would say their is a lot of free riding Preston Wigan/Warrington, the train I was on the TM collected half a dozen fares in each of the front two coaches and hadn't time to do the rest.

Depends which train really. Certainly on a VT Pendolino, have to be pretty unlucky if you get on at Preston and then have a ticket check before you get to Wigan if you want to fare dodge. That said I've encountered a few RPI blocks at Wigan North Western including one where I was challenged for five minutes despite producing a valid return ticket due to it "having a mark on it so obviously you've used it before."

Don't remember any at Bank Quay.

 

[DanTrain]

Disagree with that one if you mean alighting at Meadowhall itself. There are usually staff on the paths towards the centre checking tickets.

Chesterfield to Sheffield would be a better one from that area.

As has been pointed out earlier in the thread, I haven’t been out there recently so hadn’t realised they had blocks there now .

 

[Kite159]

Meadowhall is strange as isn't the path the RPIs normally stand on a public right of way with an entrance from the B6082/Tyler Street so unless someone is spotted coming up the stairs from the platforms they could claim they are travelling on a tram or heading to the shopping centre/bus interchange (As looking on Google Maps it appears there is housing nearby so a reasonable claim to make)

 

[Monty]

I would say that the Portsmouth Harbour to Southampton Central line must be near the top. It seems to get a very high amount of fare evasion especially on the all stations stopping trains run by SWT (despite the fact that the Guards on these trains regularly walk through and check tickets). Almost every time i use these all stations stopping SWT trains there is someone fare evading. There are also a lot of people on this line who refuse to pay when the Guards check tickets and also refuse to get off the train so the Guard just has to let them travel for free (delaying the train just annoys other passengers and the company).

My experience of the 'Netley' road is that there is a lot of 'paying when challenged' which in itself a form of fare evasion, however most of the time (with me at least) they would pay up when you walked through the train. I do have the odd run in with some stubborn fool who things they should travel for free but it comes with the territory.

During SWT days before PAYG oyster was accepted the inner London area used to be rife with it, the Hounslow and Kingston Loops especially. Norbiton pre barriers was a notorious hotpot for fare evasion. The branches between Virginia Water - Weybridge and Ascot - Guildford also being worthy of note, the kids down there were well known amongst staff for being quite feral.

 

[Typhoon]

My local Sutton Coldfield has the grand total of one on the platform, none on the concourse.

When I worked there I remember Sutton being a particularly easy station to enter and leave - two entrances/exits from both platforms. Certainly in the evenings staff were thin on the ground both at the station and on the trains.
And you are right, there seems to be an assumption that no-one would be travelling to Lichfield.

 

[Train Maniac]

Southeastern must be near the top of the TOCs I reckon.

North Kent Line... An RPI once told me nobody buys a ticket at Swanscombe.

Pretty much the whole of Southeastern metro services I'd say. The bulk of the punters travelling to Brixton don't pay and many who get on further down the line jump out quickly there to touch in and get back on the same train so they can touch out at Victoria.

Sheppey poppers and Strood - Maidstone on the Medway Valley. I've never even seen a guard check tickets on that route as it's often not safe for them to do so.


It's SE country but GTR trains now...
St Mary Cray to Bat and Ball is rife. The Catford Loop is another one. Try standing at Bellingham or Catford and see how many people touch out off peak and at night... Maybe 10%. I can't imagine the other 90% hold paper tickets!

Pretty much anything that's DOO is a freebie for those who are so inclined, especially in the evenings.

I know what you mean

If it hasn't been mentioned already, I would definitely say The Island Line as a high contender for the list. No ticket barriers and Guards obviously have a hard time manoeuvring around the 1938 stock

 

[175mph]

Meadowhall has RPI's stationed there nearly all the time, who don't let you through without a ticket.

I would say Chapeltown-Elsecar-Wombwell-Barnsley. The trains are often too busy/long for the guard to get through so the chancers all go to the opposite end of the train and generally get a free ride.

Dewsbury- Huddersfield used to be another one due to the pubs offering a way round the barriers and the TPE trains being too busy for a guard to get through. Not used Dewsbury for a while now and it's got barriers now I believe.

Batley-Dewsbury again used to be a common one but the barriers at Dewsbury could have stopped it now.

That must be a new thing as when I went on the train to Meadowhall in 2017, (with a valid ticket, of course. ), that was not the case!

I'd say Barnetby-Scunthorpe.

Or even Doncaster-York, I was surprised how little time it takes to get to York when travelling on an electric Intercity 225, and I remember as I was leaving the train in York, a bunch of teenagers were laughing about it being so easy to dodge the fare as in the 20 minutes it took to get to York, nobody came to check tickets.

 

[OxtedSignaller]

I find the South Western routes particularly towards Portsmouth and Southampton a fare evaders paradise. Compared to Southern their revenue protection seems very lax, ticket barriers at the minority of stations which have them left open, not many on board checks, and in the surbuban areas very rare tickets are checked especially because they have non commercial guards. I still do not understand why they aren't revenue trained to check and sell tickets especially since they have them based as far out as Guildford for example.

 

[camflyer]

Certainly needs to be more ticket machines at stations.

Was actually going to start a thread on that but probably best in here given it's a topic, how many does your local station have?=

My local station is Newmarket which recently got its first ticket machine as part of the tarting up of the platform. The trouble is that there's only about 50% chance of it working which is a pain when you want to collect tickets. Before Cambridge got barriers you could easily do Newmarket or Dullingham to Cambridge without paying as the services were often so busy.

I also use Whittlesford Parkway regularly for trips into London LST to avoid having to change at Cambridge. The annoyance there is that the only ticket machines are on the Cambridge-bound platform so to buy a ticket into London you have to cross the bridge twice.

 

[silverfoxcc]

How much revenue is estimated as being lost over the whole system?

 

[sheff1]

Meadowhall is strange as isn't the path the RPIs normally stand on a public right of way with an entrance from the B6082/Tyler Street so unless someone is spotted coming up the stairs from the platforms they could claim they are travelling on a tram or heading to the shopping centre/bus interchange (As looking on Google Maps it appears there is housing nearby so a reasonable claim to make)

Well things may have changed, as at least 2 people on this thread have said RPIs are at Meadowhall nearly all the time now which must be a very new thing, but on the very rare occasions I have seen RPIs there in the past they have been positioned exactly as you describe which always struck me as a bit pointless.

 

[sw1ller]

I wonder if Wrexham/Bidston might be worth a shout. I suspect there’s plenty of “pay if and when asked” types who pay when the guard comes round, but on the (few) occasions I’ve travelled on this line there’s been a noticeable contingent of “jump on and disappear into the toilet for the whole journey” and “can’t pay, what are you going to do?” types.

Needless to say most of the stations don’t have ticket facilities, but equally the guards do seem to come round consistently.

Ahh, you got there before me. Wrexham central to Gwersyllt is by far the worst I’ve seen anywhere. If the guard comes round there’s genuine disbeleif when asked to pay. One on Monday apperantly asked the guard 3 times if the guard wanted them to pay. You wanna see their faces when RPI staff turn up once every 6 months. Absolute shock.

The rest of the line is kinda ok. Main issues with the stations between Gwersyllt and Hope. But there are a fair few that head straight for the toilets. Seen them do it to avoid the smallest of fares!

 

[clagmonster]

My local Sutton Coldfield has the grand total of one on the platform, none on the concourse.

It's a big problem in the mornings between half 8-9 when there can be queues of people buying tickets. One that really winds me up is when they're putting in the codes for pre orded tickets to London. One guy was actually amazed when I inform him you could just do at New Street where there are many more TMs....

Anyway if I've got a tight connection at New Street I just hop on rather than to queue tbh and then get the ticket onboard. Can be tending not to bother though considering New Street becomes gateless from 10am most mornings....

As facilities for the issue of tickets are available, in the case of the passengers collecting pre-ordered tickets then they would be committing a byelaw offence by not collecting the ticket before boarding.

If the ticket machine (or booking office if there is one open) accepts your chosen method of payment, you must similarly pay before boarding, else you are breaching the byelaws and quite possibly the Regulation of Railways Act.