Potential solutions for overcrowding on the Hereford - Birmingham line?

[Old Hill Bank]

Worcester Council in its project initiation claims :-

Once it's completed, Worcestershire Parkway Station will aim to:

• remove existing regional and national car journeys from the strategic road network, thereby reducing road traffic congestion
• address Worcestershire's current poor accessibility to and from London arising from the limited frequency and length of journey time of North Cotswold Line services
• transform access to the rail network for Worcestershire passengers currently restricted by minimal car parking capacity and limited opportunities for expansion at other County stations
• tackle Worcestershire's exclusion from the Cross Country network (Bristol-Birmingham-North West/North East). Despite the services passing through the very heart of the County, rail access is only viable by making connections at Birmingham New Street and Cheltenham Spa. This must be addressed as it severely restricts the County's economic relationship with other parts of the United Kingdom

Yes we have seen all of that Bovine excrement but even if XC will stop more trains at it. It is no use to half of the county and will do sod all to sort west midlands overcrowding.

 

[The Planner]

I thought that once the Nottingham to Cardiff services run the aim was to call some of the Manchesters there as well? If not could the second Nottingham service possibly extend to Gloucester providing a half hourly service and 4tph from Cheltenham to Birmingham?

Not that I know of, I doubt XC will ever stop a long distance service there.

If you extend the current Nottingham terminator then it catches the xx.53 Bromsgrove very quickly and will trundle behind it until Kings Norton whereupon you are bang smack on top of any XC going along the Camp Hill, if you have to wait for that then chances are you will actually put time into the same xx.53 at Longbridge and have two arrivals at Bromsgrove very close to each other. You would actually probably end up at Cheltenham at the same time as the TFW Maesteg departs.

 

[VT 390]

Not that I know of, I doubt XC will ever stop a long distance service there.

If you extend the current Nottingham terminator then it catches the xx.53 Bromsgrove very quickly and will trundle behind it until Kings Norton whereupon you are bang smack on top of any XC going along the Camp Hill, if you have to wait for that then chances are you will actually put time into the same xx.53 at Longbridge and have two arrivals at Bromsgrove very close to each other. You would actually probably end up at Cheltenham at the same time as the TFW Maesteg departs.

If the Cross City service terminated at Longbridge and the New XC service served Bromsgrove instead then the XC service could take over the Stopping TFW service as far as Cardiff Central.

 

[The Planner]

No, Bromsgrove was a blessing in getting rid of the shunt moves at Longbridge. If you do as you suggest, what replaces the Barnt Green stop?

 

[VT 390]

what replaces the Barnt Green stop?

One of the other 2 Bromsgrove Cross City services which do not stop at Barnt Green currently

 

[VT 390]

I just thought would there be a case to electrify the line to Hereford to have 4/5 car EMU's on all New Street to Hereford services also GWR class 800 could use the electrified lines. If the Malvern and Ledbury tunnels would be a problem just electrify as far as Great Malvern and have Bi-mode or battery units? (this may also slightly decrease journey times as well)

 

[Old Hill Bank]

I just thought would there be a case to electrify the line to Hereford to have 4/5 car EMU's on all New Street to Hereford services also GWR class 800 could use the electrified lines. If the Malvern and Ledbury tunnels would be a problem just electrify as far as Great Malvern and have Bi-mode or battery units? (this may also slightly decrease journey times as well)

You should get longer trains from May or WMT have screwed up big time.

 

[VT 390]

You should get longer trains from May or WMT have screwed up big time.

Depends if the Rugeley line electrification is delayed or not, though in 2020/2021 new trains will be arriving (I think there class 196's)

 

[Class 170101]

Not that I know of, I doubt XC will ever stop a long distance service there.

If you extend the current Nottingham terminator then it catches the xx.53 Bromsgrove very quickly and will trundle behind it until Kings Norton whereupon you are bang smack on top of any XC going along the Camp Hill, if you have to wait for that then chances are you will actually put time into the same xx.53 at Longbridge and have two arrivals at Bromsgrove very close to each other. You would actually probably end up at Cheltenham at the same time as the TFW Maesteg departs.

If the Cross City service terminated at Longbridge and the New XC service served Bromsgrove instead then the XC service could take over the Stopping TFW service as far as Cardiff Central.

Would the Bromsgrove actually need to terminate at Longbridge?

Personally I wouldn't have a problem if XC did take over the TfW service as far as Cardiff Central. Send the Maestag service to Ebbw Vale instead maybe.

 

[VT 390]

Also if XC provided an hourly device to Bromsgrove then WMR could then possibly make there Hereford services pickup/setdown only at Bromsgrove.

 

[221129]

Also if XC provided an hourly device to Bromsgrove then WMR could then possibly make there Hereford services pickup/setdown only at Bromsgrove.

No chance of XC calling at Bromsgrove again any time soon. We've only just got rid of it.

 

[VT 390]

No chance of XC calling at Bromsgrove again any time soon. We've only just got rid of it.

I meant if they introduced a fourth XC service per hour it could call at bromsgrove

 

[STKKK46]

XC have no intention of calling at Bromsgrove...

 

[Pokelet]

I commuted daily on this line for 7 years until June '18. Overcrowding has always been an issue. In the morning peaks on the 07:07 ex HFD it was normal for it to arrive full and standing and depart the same. 2 cars (or 3) off peak is also not enough, sadly WMT just don't have the stock at the moment.

From Worcester there is the option of the Snow Hill lines, for me personally I used to avoid these purely as it takes 20mins more and I don't fine the 172's that pleasent compared to the 170's.

The HFD-BHM flow really needs 5 cars all day each aerserv, the current pick and mix approach can only last so long.

 

[221129]

I meant if they introduced a fourth XC service per hour it could call at bromsgrove

No chance.

 

[VT 390]

The HFD-BHM flow really needs 5 cars all day each aerserv, the current pick and mix approach can only last so long.

Once the Rugeley line is fully electrified some 170's should be freed up and hopefully will add capacity until WMR gets new stock in 2020/21

 

[The Planner]

One of the other 2 Bromsgrove Cross City services which do not stop at Barnt Green currently

Would break their turnarounds at Bromsgrove I would suspect.

 

[43074]

Would the Bromsgrove actually need to terminate at Longbridge?

Personally I wouldn't have a problem if XC did take over the TfW service as far as Cardiff Central. Send the Maestag service to Ebbw Vale instead maybe.

There's probably more of a case for TfW to take over Birmingham to Cardiff than there is for XC to take over the Cheltenham to Cardiff local service, and if nothing else there might be scope for extensions further into South Wales etc.

 

[VT 390]

How many carriages will the new WMR stock have?

 

[Class 170101]

No chance of XC calling at Bromsgrove again any time soon. We've only just got rid of it.

XC have no intention of calling at Bromsgrove...

I take it there is no demand heading south towards Gloucester and Bristol as far as XC is concerned?

Is there actually demand to head south from Bromsgrove towards Gloucester / Cardiff and Bristol?

 

[VT 390]

To try and improve capacity would it be possible to run the following services off peak

1tph Hereford, Ledbury, Colwall, Great Malvern, Malvern Link, Worcester Foregate Street, Droitwich Spa, Bromsgrove (pickup South/setdown North only) University, New Street

1tph Worcester Foregate Street or Shrub Hill, Droitwich Spa, Bromsgrove, University, New Street

This way Bromsgrove still gets a fast service but less people would board before Bromsgrove as it does not come from Hereford and Worcester would get 2tph fast to Birmingham.
If these trains ran a Half Hourly service Droitwich to Birmingham service then they should fit with the Cross City services as it would follow the same timed service, just half an hour later. Also no XC service runs exactly on the opposite half hour to the Worcester services so should fit with these.
Platform space would not be an issue at New Street as currently off-peak I think services arrive at xx09 and depart at xx50 but a half hourly service would mean a service would arrive at xx09 and depart at xx20 and then again at xx39 waiting until xx50 so noe extra platform space would be needed and this turnaround time is possible as peak hours they wait for this long.
The stock to operate this (until new stock arrives) would be displaced class 170's from the electrified Rugeley line.

 

[Dave91131]

Do Worcester / Hereford still see a daily (Mon - Fri) 150 diagram to and from New Street?

 

[PHILIPE]

Do Worcester / Hereford still see a daily (Mon - Fri) 150 diagram to and from New Street?

Yes, they do

 

[Starmill]

They could stay on to Moor Street which is like 5 minutes to New Street

The typical journey time from a Worcester station to Birmingham Moor Street is 57 or 63 mins. The journey time from Worcester Foregate Street to Birmingham New Street is 45 minutes. Also, some of these passengers are probably going to University.

 

[VT 390]

The typical journey time from a Worcester station to Birmingham Moor Street is 57 or 63 mins. The journey time from Worcester Foregate Street to Birmingham New Street is 45 minutes. Also, some of these passengers are probably going to University.

But as the cost is the same the passengers that are just going to central Birmingham could travel on the Moor Street services

 

[Starmill]

But as the cost is the same the passengers that are just going to central Birmingham could travel on the Moor Street services

But they are up to 18 minutes slower as my post explains so it is hardly a surprise that many people choose the fastest services.

If West Midlands Trains wanted to, they could create cheaper 'Via Kidderminster' tickets.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

But they are up to 18 minutes slower as my post explains so it is hardly a surprise that many people choose the fastest services.

If West Midlands Trains wanted to, they could create cheaper 'Via Kidderminster' tickets.

Indeed, I think that would be a sensible option in theory. But if passengers flock towards that ticket (as might be foreseeable, even with only a relatively small price difference), then it might cause significant overcrowding on that route in turn. That is a problem inasmuch as it is harder to deal with excess passenger numbers there, as the likes of the Worcester-Moor Street-Stratford etc. services are the local stopping service, unlike the CrossCity line where it merely supplements the stopper.

 

[30907]

I take it there is no demand heading south towards Gloucester and Bristol as far as XC is concerned?

Is there actually demand to head south from Bromsgrove towards Gloucester / Cardiff and Bristol?

See this current thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-a-birmingham-sw-parkway.176062/#post-3817745

 

[sprinterguy]

How many carriages will the new WMR stock have?

There will be 12 x 2-car and 14 x 4-car class 196 units.

 

[train_lover]

WMT will run a half hourly service from Hereford to Birmingham. One will be a fast service and the other being a slow service.

I can't really see Worcestershire Parkway being a success myself. I feel the complete lack of will by TOCS to serve it will be it's greatest downfall. Unless WMT start running Gloucester services that go via Parkway or the wire are extended to Parkway with the cross city also being extend I just fail to see how it'll work.