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Staffordshire Bus News

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Robertj21a

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Publicity isn't the issue. It's the impact on ridership (or revenue) that matters, and the consequent further cutbacks.

Table BUS0109a
Passenger journeys on local bus services by local authority1,2: England, from 2009/10
Figures for Stoke-0n-Trent:
2009/10 15.6m
2010/11 14.m
2011/12 14.0m
2012/13 12.7m
2013/14 13.4m
2014/15 12.0m
2015/16 10.7m
2016/17 10.m
Which came first, a decline in use followed by service cuts. Or severe service cuts followed by a decline in use?

Supermarkets operate in a competitive environment with other supermarkets and with smaller players. Bus companies have competing modes but rarely competing bus companies. Supermarket 'yo-yo' prices on certain products is annoying. Milk hasn't changed in price for years. Bread varies by relatively small amounts £1.00 to £1.35. Butter, always on offer at one of the supermarkets and full-price at the other three. You just have to know which is the one this month. Household products double/halve in price on a regular basis as you say. Difficult to know what the 'real' price for a box of soap-powder is nowadays. I just buy at it's lowest price and maintain a stockpile.


That decline in passenger journeys looks quite substantial, but then it is over a 7-8 year period, when a similar decline has been evidenced across much of the UK. I know that Potteries has been particularly badly hit but I wonder how it compares with other areas.
 
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Baxenden Bank

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It's certainly something they've wanted to bring in for ages.

I've basically been insulted by various drivers for daring to want change from a fiver - it's got to the point where I prefer not to travel.
They haven't brought it in. It's a cut-and-paste job from another First subsidiary website which nobody at The Potteries has *noticed, *cares about, *tried to get updated and failed, *knows what their policy is anyway. * delete as applicable.

Change, you want change, from a fiver for a £4.50 day ticket. Unbelievable. :lol:
 

Baxenden Bank

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That decline in passenger journeys looks quite substantial, but then it is over a 7-8 year period, when a similar decline has been evidenced across much of the UK. I know that Potteries has been particularly badly hit but I wonder how it compares with other areas.
2009/10 to 2016/17
Stoke on Trent 34% decline
West Midlands 17% decline
England and Wales 3.8% decline - that doesn't seem right, must check the published statistics.
 

Baxenden Bank

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More council cuts https://www.staffordshire-live.co.u...oola&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=exchange

Oddly, this story appeared in the Bristol Post website......
That sort of thing happens on occasion.

Possibly someone responsible for the Staffordshire Live site put 'Stoke' as a key word on the story and the Bristol Post website automatically picks it up, thinking 'Bradley Stoke'.

Are both papers / websites in the same group? In which case they may be sub-edited in the same building nowadays. Very few work locally at The Sentinel / Staffordshire Live.
 

Baxenden Bank

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If anyone wishes to depress themselves, the new First Potteries timetables can be viewed on the Traveline WM site, but you will have to decipher the multi-date codes.

Printed copies were due at Hanley Bus Station last week. Don't know if they have actually arrived.
 

mjc

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If anyone wishes to depress themselves, the new First Potteries timetables can be viewed on the Traveline WM site, but you will have to decipher the multi-date codes.
Are these the new timetables or just the Christmas/New Year changes! They're also on First's website but I can't see anything beyond 4th (on Traveline) or 5th (Potteries uses.com). As usual I'll be finishing for my christmas break not knowing how I'll get to work in the new year :(
 

Baxenden Bank

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Are these the new timetables or just the Christmas/New Year changes! They're also on First's website but I can't see anything beyond 4th (on Traveline) or 5th (Potteries uses.com). As usual I'll be finishing for my christmas break not knowing how I'll get to work in the new year :(
No, they are the new timetables, hence the many codes, as per the 6A timetable:
Service Restrictions:
1 - from 7.1.19
2 - to 21.12.18
3 - from 2.1.19 to 4.1.19
4 - to 4.1.19
5 - from 12.1.19
6 - to 5.1.19
and similar for other routes.

Look under timetables and download the pdf.

If you rely on the First website, that's your problem! Three times the effort (as each day-set has to be downloaded individually), appalling formating and seemingly compiled by a man sat in a shed on Orkney and when the goat needs feeding he goes absent and nothing gets done. As per route diversions and service issues. The 6A is apparently running a normal route, strange how we have been going down Sutherland Road in both directions, yet again, for several days, with not a mention of the wesbsite. A hopeless shower.
 

mjc

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No, they are the new timetables, hence the many codes, as per the 6A timetable:

and similar for other routes.

Look under timetables and download the pdf.

If you rely on the First website, that's your problem! Three times the effort (as each day-set has to be downloaded individually), appalling formating and seemingly compiled by a man sat in a shed on Orkney and when the goat needs feeding he goes absent and nothing gets done. As per route diversions and service issues. The 6A is apparently running a normal route, strange how we have been going down Sutherland Road in both directions, yet again, for several days, with not a mention of the websiye. A hopeless shower.
Sorry I missed that, not sure how! It's the 6 for me, not too much change for me, although my morning bus is 3 minutes earlier, 6.30 is already early enough for me :(
 

Robertj21a

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Staffs CC aren't considering restricting the use of the ENTCS pass - they've already decided they're going to do it!

Quite right too. There's no need for these passes to be valid at any time other than the statutory limits.
 

Baxenden Bank

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Had the 'good fortune' to visit Hanley today.

Printed copies of the January 2019 timetables (for First) are available from the rack in the corner of the travelshop.
 

davehsug

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2 members of my team late today, not knowing that First Potteries are running a Saturday service for the rest of the week, meaning of course, no buses before the pensioners are out! I'm lucky in that D & G were running their normal service, although even on a Saturday morning they care to run a bus. First Potteries should be wiped from the face of the Earth.
 

Baxenden Bank

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Tales from the bus stop. Number 1 of 2019.
I had multiple things to do yesterday, so I bought a First Potteries day ticket. Six buses caught, four operated as they should have, one broke down by the first stop out of Hanley Bus Station (in Stafford Street), one didn't operate at all (from Wolstanton).
 

The_Train

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Just driven past the First depot in Newcastle and noticed that there were 4 single decker buses parked in the yard. I thought this depot had been closed but I guess it was just mothballed and is now being part used where necessary?
 

overthewater

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I know, but some people have glossed over this important part.


https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-trent-bus-journeys-fall-2320536

Stoke-on-Trent has seen the second biggest decline in bus use in the country, new figures show. The number of bus journeys in the city fell from 15.6 million in 2009/10 to 10.3 million in 2016/17 – a drop of around 34 per cent.
Only Warrington has seen a steeper decline, with bus trips there falling by 36.6 per cent. Bus journeys in Staffordshire fell from 22 million to 18.5 million, a 16 per cent drop. Campaigners blame the fall in bus use in Stoke-on-Trent on cuts to services and fares hikes. First Potteries recently increased fares, including concessionary tickets, by between 10p and £1, while the latest timetable changes – aimed at improving reliability – took effect in September.

But the company says a number of factors are behind the decline in bus use, including the opening of Hanley’s ‘inconvenient’ new bus station in 2013, and the availability of ‘very cheap car parking’ encouraging car use.

Dan Flanagan, operations manager at First Potteries, said: “The statistics are concerning but there are several contributory factors to be considered that may have affected confidence in the local bus network.

First Potteries have increased their bus fares this weekend (and this is what you think)
“The bus station was moved to an inconvenient location away from the retail centre of Hanley, meaning people have a considerable walk to get the bus home after a day’s work or shopping. There has also been a general decline in retail attractiveness across our local market towns reducing the need or want to visit these locations, along with less disposable income being available for families to venture on a day out.


BusHanleyStation.jpg

Hanley Bus Station.
“However, we will continue to deliver bus services where there is demand, it is quite simple really the more people that use the service the better it will be. We obviously have to consider when, where and how often people are travelling to determine the route, frequency and days of operation to make a service sustainable, as all financial support that was available has been removed by the city council”

Stoke-on-Trent City Council’s more up-to-date quarterly figures show that bus passenger journeys have continued to fall in 2018.

The authority says it is working with bus operators to reverse this decline, but that its powers are limited.

A council report states: “It is important to be clear that bus operators are commercial businesses not under the direction or control of the city council.

“Having said this, the city council is not without some influence and is intent on working with the bus operators to exercise that influence in the best interests of the city.

“However, the relationship primarily relies on the voluntary co-operation of the companies and must work in the light of the decisions that the bus operators make in their commercial interests.

“For example the decision to withdraw services from Longton Bus Station was made unilaterally by the operator, not by the city council.”


3_JS148788730.jpg

A First Potteries bus
The city council has been shortlisted for a share of the £840 million Transforming Cities fund, which could be used to develop bus rapid transit in Stoke-on-Trent, along with trams and light rail.

Owen Sloss, a member of North Staffs Pensioners’ Convention, says that the council and the bus operators need to work together to reverse the current downward trend.

He said: “The pensioners’ convention, nationally and locally, have been campaigning about the decline of bus use. As councils no longer regulate buses, companies will only run services where they can make a profit. In Stoke-on-Trent that means that there are no services from Norton on a Sunday, and buses from Stoke station to Hanley only run every 30 minutes. But that means fewer people use the buses, and so it’s a vicious circle. The fare increase could see bus use go down even further.

“I think the council and the bus companies need to get together to do something about this. I read a report about car use that said that in the next 10 or 20 years our roads are going to be at a standstill. In Stoke-on-Trent all it takes is one accident and everything is gridlocked.”

Daniel Jellyman, cabinet member for regeneration, transport and heritage at the city council, said: “We have ambitious plans for growth and modernisation in Stoke-on-Trent, and a big part of that is making sure we have a transport network that is fit-for-purpose and meets the city’s needs.

"That is why we are in the running for a share of the Government’s £840m Transforming Cities Fund, which could potentially oversee a transport revolution in our city.

"While bus companies are private firms that are free to make their own decisions, we are obviously keen to work with them and provide whatever support and assistance we can in order to maintain a good level of public transport for residents in the city.”
 

James101

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Just driven past the First depot in Newcastle and noticed that there were 4 single decker buses parked in the yard. I thought this depot had been closed but I guess it was just mothballed and is now being part used where necessary?

I believe the 72 and 22 are worked from Newcastle. The buses are just stabled in the yard, the building and facilities are not used. The four buses there change regularly so I guess the running boards allow for them to return to Adderley Green.
 

davehsug

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I know, but some people have glossed over this important part.


https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-trent-bus-journeys-fall-2320536
The important part being that passenger numbers are certain to drop if there are no buses for them to use. For most parts of the area, buses are now a 10 hour a day operation. I can no longer use the bus if I go out in the evening, because there are none. Usage may have been low, but every single one of those passengers is lost. The siting of Hanley bus station is inconvenient, but it is disingenuous for First to complain about it, and then re-route buses that did travel through the town, straight to the bus station outside of peak pensionner hours. The number 5 that I usually use in the mornings, doesn't go through the town until after 9am, so now I get the Scraggs 5 or D & G 16, more lost passengers. A population approaching 400,000 is left with no usable public transport outside the 10 hour window. They're lucky to have the passengers that they do have.
 

The_Train

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I believe the 72 and 22 are worked from Newcastle. The buses are just stabled in the yard, the building and facilities are not used. The four buses there change regularly so I guess the running boards allow for them to return to Adderley Green.

Thanks for the response. Makes sense to stable buses there that work from Newcastle. Doesn't seem to make sense to keep hold of the building and land just for thus purpose. Surely it would be better turned into cash?
 

Robertj21a

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Thanks for the response. Makes sense to stable buses there that work from Newcastle. Doesn't seem to make sense to keep hold of the building and land just for thus purpose. Surely it would be better turned into cash?

Isn't it that they can't get rid of the lease on it ?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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It would suit a HGV operation, or logistics perhaps. Handy for A34/A50/M6 - but it's been on the market for ages already.
.

Probably better for a commercial vehicle workshop or HGV depot on account of the size of the yard. Not really big enough or tall enough for logistics and that's probably why it's been difficult to move it on.
 

The_Train

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Robertj21a

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If it's available on the rental market, would that suggest that the First lease is basically in place until new tenants can be found?

What will First do with the buses that stable there overnight? Are they allowed to stable buses overnight at the bus station in the town? Or would that be too insecure a place to leave a bus?

First still lease the site. The buses are left there because a) they can and b) there was too little space at the main depot.

I'm sure their regular reduction in routes/frequencies will soon provide enough space for them to all be kept in just the one place !!

:rolleyes:
 
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