Delays at Norwich (29/12)

[Richard1960]

Hi does anybody know what time the signalling problems got fixed at Norwich last night 29/12/2018 a major signal failure meant hours of waiting. As both the Ger Line and The western link shut down .

I heard one of the staff say its the longest outage they have known though perhaps that was not right.

Sorry the GER is the main route from Norwich to Liverpool Street ,and the Greater Anglia western route is is between Cambridge London Norwich ,was cut off for hours last night , got stuck at Norwich station for three hours ,so am curious to know when it got fixed ,as there seemed to be no contingency plan.

Its a fair question and I put it more politely them some "customers" .

GA platform staff were good and it was what it was.

 

[43055]

Hi does anybody know what time the signalling problems got fixed at Norwich last night 29/12/2018 a major signal failure meant hours of waiting. As both the Ger Line and The western link shut down .

I heard one of the staff say its the longest outage they have known though perhaps that was not right.

Sorry the GER is the main route from Norwich to Liverpool Street ,and the Greater Anglia western route is is between Cambridge London Norwich ,was cut off for hours last night , got stuck at Norwich station for three hours ,so am curious to know when it got fixed ,as there seemed to be no contingency plan.

Its a fair question and I put it more politely them some "customers" .

GA platform staff were good and it was what it was.

It looks like services towards Ely started around 1800 with the first service taking an extra 40 minuets to arrive and London services starting a little earlier going south with the 1700 departure. Which means it was around 3 hours from when the fault arose.

 

[TheEdge]

Sorry the GER is the main route from Norwich to Liverpool Street ,and the Greater Anglia western route is is between Cambridge London Norwich ,was cut off for hours last night , got stuck at Norwich station for three hours ,so am curious to know when it got fixed ,as there seemed to be no contingency plan.

They lost both lines and the junction at Trowse. There can be all the contingencies in the world but if you've lost use of all the routes out of Norwich then nothing is going to run until you have them back.

 

[High Dyke]

A number of EMT services were restarted from Ely or Thetford heading westwards, with one terminating at Wymondham to restart back towards Nottingham from there. About 18:00 sounds right, as the 16:54 ex Norwich to Man Piccadilly was 64 late departing Norwich; it being the first of their services from there.

 

[Stampy]

Controlled from Colchester PSB of course.

Am I correct in thinking that the "box" at the swing bridge at Trowse only controls the Sheringham/Cromer line?

 

[LAX54]

The TDM system was lost at Norwich (to Colchester) at about 1345, which meant there was no control of signals / points from Swainsthorpe / Wymondham to Norrwich, and all track circuit indications froze, Norwich is split into TDM North and TDM South, but only one failed completely, normally Trowse bridge can switch in the slave panel and work under Colchester's instructions, but for some reason this could not be done, MOM's were called from Norwich and Ipswich, the most important thing at the time was the 1400 stuck a Trowse Junction, but this took time to clip points and set back.
MOM then clipped up all points for Norwich to Diss only, as this was completed, Trowse Bridge managed to get the slave partially working, and it took time to come up with a safe method of working, which would enable the Thetford Line to run as well.
This was acheived at about 1640/1650 it was a slow process of liasing between Trowse Signaller and Colchester.
Whilst TDM failures (complete) are rare, they do happen, however I have been at Colchester since 1989, and the type of failure that happened, I had never seen before, it was a one off ! But the Signallers / Control /TOC's worked hard and we managed to get running again, but it did take longer than normal! (for the reasons given) Signaller in Colchester certainly earnt his momey Saturday afternoon, AND his Fish and Chip lunch ended in the bin

 

[Class 170101]

Did a plan not already exist for a scenario like this then?

 

[dk1]

Did a plan not already exist for a scenario like this then?

Swills post explains it all very clearly.

 

[Alfie1014]

A friend of mine (retired railway staff) was on the 14:00 ex Norwich trying to get back to Shenfield and was over three hours late getting home. He commented that as a frequent leisure traveler this was his most delayed journey since he finished working, (back in the last century) when he had been delayed on his commute, though I did raise him a Christmas Eve journey a couple of years ago on the ECML when a Hull Trains cl180 sat down at Grantham for a similar length of time!

 

[LAX54]

Did a plan not already exist for a scenario like this then?

As stated, yes Trowse Bridge switches in, and works under the instructions from Colchester, however this failure was, what could be quoted as a 'one off' ! The fact that TSB could only work one part of it, was unusual, and something that I have never seen since 1989, so not sure how you can totally plan for an 'unknown' once in 30 years failure !

 

[LAX54]

A friend of mine (retired railway staff) was on the 14:00 ex Norwich trying to get back to Shenfield and was over three hours late getting home. He commented that as a frequent leisure traveler this was his most delayed journey since he finished working, (back in the last century) when he had been delayed on his commute, though I did raise him a Christmas Eve journey a couple of years ago on the ECML when a Hull Trains cl180 sat down at Grantham for a similar length of time!

The 1400 was the first affected, pure bad timing of the failure ! 3 or 4 mins earlier, or 3 mins later it would either have been in the Station, or past Trowse Junction ! but it was close behind the EMT that got through by the skin of it's teeth, and the route was route locked towards Hethersett
Faults got staff to site asap, MOMs from Norwich (who was at the Lowestoft area) and the Ipswich MOM called to attend, as soon as they were on site, they clipped up the points back into Norwich Station, once that was done, we were able to get the 1400 back into the Station. (we could not do it any quicker, there were no points indicated, no signals indicated, and indeed no train on the panel indications !)

 

[Class 170101]

I was just surprised that it took time to come up with a safe method of workimg. I would have thought one was already extant.

 

[GW43125]

I was just surprised that it took time to come up with a safe method of workimg. I would have thought one was already extant.

One was already extant... but that failed too, as explained above.
The safe method of working if the other safe methods of working fail is stop

 

[LAX54]

Not sure I can make it any easier to follow _ mind you if we had staff living in little tents next to every junction, it would have been quicker

 

[dk1]

Not sure I can make it any easier to follow _ mind you if we had staff living in little tents next to every junction, it would have been quicker

Don't give some people ideas

 

[Richard1960]

Thanks guys it was one of those things GA staff were giving out coffee on the platform so I waited rather then get a cab to diss .

Swills post is great thought it might have been a bit technical.

 

[TurbostarFan]

Why couldn't GA provide rail replacement transport all the way to where services were running? Or at least get them to where EMT were running their services. That way passengers could get a train to Peterborough and change there for LNER and GN services to London on the ECML. I don't see how agreeing a ticket acceptance wouldn't be possible.

 

[Sleepy]

Getting any bus/ coach ad hoc on a Saturday afternoon especially when NCFC are playing at home is likely to be difficult but would be harder at Christmas when those drivers may have had a lunchtime tipple or 2 ?

 

[LAX54]

Thanks guys it was one of those things GA staff were giving out coffee on the platform so I waited rather then get a cab to diss .

Swills post is great thought it might have been a bit technical.

Wassnt sure how to word it ! lol but for those that don't know, roughly explained a TDM is the electronic system that connects Colchester with the outside world, in this case Norwich, it transmits (and receives) all commands and indications between the two places, so when it went pear shaped, all indications 'freeze' at stays at that moment in time, the Signaller will get no response from any button push.
Signaller then steps back to take stock, and ascertain where everything is, as the indications will not say, the 'freeze' can make life difficult seeing a train that is long gone, so the indications can be switched off, so nothing is showing, which is a lot easier ! Normally Trowse Bridge switches in and works under the control of Colchester, but this was not possible this time, but when Plan B was worked out, we managed to get a service going

Why couldn't GA provide rail replacement transport all the way to where services were running? Or at least get them to where EMT were running their services. That way passengers could get a train to Peterborough and change there for LNER and GN services to London on the ECML. I don't see how agreeing a ticket acceptance wouldn't be possible.

They did run taxis and bus (one or more) to both Wymondham and Diss. I am sure I read tickets valid via Kings Cross, not that coming that way would have helped much, if we had not come up with Plan B !

 

[TurbostarFan]

The TDM system was lost at Norwich (to Colchester) at about 1345, which meant there was no control of signals / points from Swainsthorpe / Wymondham to Norrwich, and all track circuit indications froze, Norwich is split into TDM North and TDM South, but only one failed completely, normally Trowse bridge can switch in the slave panel and work under Colchester's instructions, but for some reason this could not be done, MOM's were called from Norwich and Ipswich, the most important thing at the time was the 1400 stuck a Trowse Junction, but this took time to clip points and set back.
MOM then clipped up all points for Norwich to Diss only, as this was completed, Trowse Bridge managed to get the slave partially working, and it took time to come up with a safe method of working, which would enable the Thetford Line to run as well.
This was acheived at about 1640/1650 it was a slow process of liasing between Trowse Signaller and Colchester.
Whilst TDM failures (complete) are rare, they do happen, however I have been at Colchester since 1989, and the type of failure that happened, I had never seen before, it was a one off ! But the Signallers / Control /TOC's worked hard and we managed to get running again, but it did take longer than normal! (for the reasons given) Signaller in Colchester certainly earnt his momey Saturday afternoon, AND his Fish and Chip lunch ended in the bin

How did you know his lunch ended up in the bin? Why can't he just eat it at work?

 

[GB]

How did you know his lunch ended up in the bin? Why can't he just eat it at work?

Perhaps he was there and saw things unfold. Perhaps the signaller was busy with phone calls every 30 seconds and trying to keep the job running and had no time to eat it.

 

[Nighthawke]

That's what happens when you're busy working in a fault/emergency situation - you put the job before the food sometimes. Simple fact of life - if you've never experienced it you're lucky! Nothing to worry about but ausing that you picked that out in all the relevant discussion.

 

[LAX54]

How did you know his lunch ended up in the bin? Why can't he just eat it at work?

Simple, he did not have time to actually eat it ! he tried reheating twice in the microwave, but each time he had a quiet moment, to 'snatch a chip' ! it was cold, when the job goes belly up, breaks are the first to go by the wayside.
Oh... and how did I know ? I was assisting with the situation on the panel at the time !

He was running trains at Haughley Jct, Terminating IC's at Diss, talking to the Drivers approaching Diss and explaining, he was dealing with Norwich Station Supervisor, guiding Trowse Signaller as per rules associated with failure, dealing with the S&T, dealing with a MOM clipping up one end of failure, dealing with another MOM clipping up at the other end, keeping the Driver of the 1400 informed as things went along, running traffic (for a while ) normally from Norwich towards / from Whitlingham Jct........

 

[LAX54]

Perhaps he was there and saw things unfold. Perhaps the signaller was busy with phone calls every 30 seconds and trying to keep the job running and had no time to eat it.

spot on !