National Rail Journey Planner - Always Accurate or Not?

[TurbostarFan]

I would like to know if the National Rail Journey Planner is always accurate or not, with the exception of issues involving journeys where one or more legs have to be done by rail replacement bus which I am already aware of.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I would like to know if the National Rail Journey Planner is always accurate or not, with the exception of issues involving journeys where one or more legs have to be done by rail replacement bus which I am already aware of.

Accurate in which sense? It can occasionally show a route as being permissible on a through ticket despite the public Routeing Guide not stating this, and vice versa.

 

[TurbostarFan]

Accurate in which sense? It can occasionally show a route as being permissible on a through ticket despite the public Routeing Guide not stating this, and vice versa.

Accurate in the sense of an average punter being able to buy the recommended tickets and use them for the recommended itinerary.

 

[bb21]

Accurate or not, if a fare is shown for an itinerary on National Rail Enquiries, this should be honoured once you have purchased said fare.

No, they are not always correct in their interpretation of the Routeing Guide.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Accurate in the sense of an average punter being able to buy the recommended tickets and use them for the recommended itinerary.

That is a matter of contract law. If you buy tickets with a certain itinerary, they are contractually valid on those services, even if the writing on the ticket somehow contradicts the itinerary.

 

[TurbostarFan]

That is a matter of contract law. If you buy tickets with a certain itinerary, they are contractually valid on those services, even if the writing on the ticket somehow contradicts the itinerary.

Am I right in saying that the contract is with the selling TOC and not National Rail? What happens if the National Rail website lists one itinerary but the selling TOC lists another one?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Am I right in saying that the contract is with the selling TOC and not National Rail? What happens if the National Rail website lists one itinerary but the selling TOC lists another one?

The only way in which a National Rail Enquiries itinerary is part of your contract is if it is part of it through the likes of Section 50 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

 

[TurbostarFan]

The only way in which a National Rail Enquiries itinerary is part of your contract is if it is part of it through the likes of Section 50 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Would using the NRE site to browse for a ticket and then purchasing it using a TOC's website count as being part of my contract under the likes of that section?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Would using the NRE site to browse for a ticket and then purchasing it using a TOC's website count as being part of my contract under the likes of that section?

Depends on whether you interpret the NRE info as being made "on behalf" of the retailer. I wouldn't be 100% confident on that one.

 

[Starmill]

Would using the NRE site to browse for a ticket and then purchasing it using a TOC's website count as being part of my contract under the likes of that section?

Maybe - or maybe not.

But what would more clearly be part of the evidence of your contract would be if you looked up the itinerary online and then went to a ticket machine and bought the ticket NRE was showing you.

Have you tried forwarding the itinerary from NRE to TransPennine Express by the way? I would be surprised if that didn't work.

 

[TurbostarFan]

Maybe - or maybe not.

But what would more clearly be part of the evidence of your contract would be if you looked up the itinerary online and then went to a ticket machine and bought the ticket NRE was showing you.

Have you tried forwarding the itinerary from NRE to TransPennine Express by the way? I would be surprised if that didn't work.

1) Fair point.
2) No.

 

[A Challenge]

2) No I actually haven't travelled with them ever before!

It doesn't make any difference as to which TOC you buy it from, you could, for ecample, buy a ticket from TP for a London Terminals to Heathrow Rail journey.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Depends on the reference data it has.

 

[TurbostarFan]

It doesn't make any difference as to which TOC you buy it from, you could, for ecample, buy a ticket from TP for a London Terminals to Heathrow Rail journey.

Thanks, will do.

Post edited to reflect that. I did try using the TPE website, it actually accepted my itinerary!

 

[TurbostarFan]

Depends on whether you interpret the NRE info as being made "on behalf" of the retailer. I wouldn't be 100% confident on that one.

I would interpret yes but can't be sure how a court would!

 

[TurbostarFan]

Maybe - or maybe not.

But what would more clearly be part of the evidence of your contract would be if you looked up the itinerary online and then went to a ticket machine and bought the ticket NRE was showing you.

Have you tried forwarding the itinerary from NRE to TransPennine Express by the way? I would be surprised if that didn't work.

By the way how would that be part of the evidence of my contract?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

By the way how would that be part of the evidence of my contract?

As then, since most TVMs explicitly refer to NRE for the likes of explaining ticket terms, it would more clearly be information provided "on behalf of" the trader.

 

[TurbostarFan]

As then, since most TVMs explicitly refer to NRE for the likes of explaining ticket terms, it would more clearly be information provided "on behalf of" the trader.

Fair point.

 

[TurbostarFan]

By the way I have taken away the link to my other thread as I don't want the RDG or Greater Anglia becoming aware of it.

 

[TurbostarFan]

As then, since most TVMs explicitly refer to NRE for the likes of explaining ticket terms, it would more clearly be information provided "on behalf of" the trader.

What if it didn't? Funnily enough the TOC I wish to use as an example (Greater Anglia) actually has an agreement with NRE in which GA agree to outsource operation of their help points and telephone advice on timetables and fares to them. Would this evidence that the NRE information was provided on behalf of the selling TOC? Or should I just buy the fare concerned from TPE and collect it?

 

[Wallsendmag]

What if it didn't? Funnily enough the TOC I wish to use as an example (Greater Anglia) actually has an agreement with NRE in which GA agree to outsource operation of their help points and telephone advice on timetables and fares to them. Would this evidence that the NRE information was provided on behalf of the selling TOC? Or should I just buy the fare concerned from TPE and collect it?

Do GA not update the NRE info ? I have access to certain pages to update info.

 

[TurbostarFan]

Do GA not update the NRE info ? I have access to certain pages to update info.

I'm not sure.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

What if it didn't? Funnily enough the TOC I wish to use as an example (Greater Anglia) actually has an agreement with NRE in which GA agree to outsource operation of their help points and telephone advice on timetables and fares to them. Would this evidence that the NRE information was provided on behalf of the selling TOC? Or should I just buy the fare concerned from TPE and collect it?

In that case, where a help point is operated by NRE there could be no credible argument the information wasn't provided on behalf of the TOC. Other cases - for example ticket machines that don't reference NRE at all - are more arguable.

 

[TurbostarFan]

In that case, where a help point is operated by NRE there could be no credible argument the information wasn't provided on behalf of the TOC. Other cases - for example ticket machines that don't reference NRE at all - are more arguable.

The ticket machines operated by GA don't actually reference NRE but they reference a telephone number for GA which connects you to a menu. Which in turn offers you option 1 for fares and timetable information, which in turn connects you to NRE. GA's website suggests contacting NRE for fares and timetable information by phone. In addition to that I've spoken to a member of the GA customer relations team who told me that information shown on the NRE website is provided on GA's behalf when you book online. This is on the basis that the NRE website directly links you to the GA website to purchase your ticket. In this case would there still be no credible argument that the information wasn't provided on behalf of the TOC?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The ticket machines operated by GA don't actually reference NRE but they reference a telephone number for GA which connects you to a menu. Which in turn offers you option 1 for fares and timetable information, which in turn connects you to NRE. Their website funnily enough reference NRE for fares and timetable information. In addition to that I've spoken to a member of the GA customer relations team who told me that information shown on the NRE website is provided on GA's behalf when you book online. This is on the basis that the NRE website directly links you to the GA website to purchase your ticket. In this case would there still be no credible argument that the information wasn't provided on behalf of the TOC?

I'm not saying the argument can't be made, but if there is no direct or implicit connection between the two, you can expect it to be something that is brought up in defence to any legal proceedings (or mentioned in any complaint response).

 

[TurbostarFan]

I'm not saying the argument can't be made, but if there is no direct or implicit connection between the two, you can expect it to be something that is brought up in defence to any legal proceedings (or mentioned in any complaint response).

So are the help points and ticket machines separate for the purposes of whether or not NRE provide information on GA's behalf?

I will point out that near the TVM at Wymondham station, there is a sign which expressly refers to NRE for the purposes of "fares and enquiries". The TVM itself directs passengers to Greater Anglia's phone number and website.