Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[VioletEclipse]

I wonder if Trident operation is now finished , on Friday there were just the usual two on the UNi shuttle , which finished yesterday till the new term
Anyone confirm ?

I think you are correct, it's sad but I think the era of the Trident is over, with Lothian.

 

[sam120]

I think you are correct, it's sad but I think the era of the Trident is over, with Lothian.

there is one every morning on the x31, don’t exactly know when the next x31 will be though.

 

[Lothian285]

there is one every morning on the x31, don’t exactly know when the next x31 will be though.

The next time the express services will be running is the 3rd of January.

 

[stantheman]

I checked the bus tracker on Friday and at least 3 of the 7 were showm just with all blue background , what does this mean .....

 

[Lothian_Bus]

I wonder if Trident operation is now finished , on Friday there were just the usual two on the UNi shuttle , which finished yesterday till the new term
Anyone confirm ?

I don't think any will be in operation until January 3rd at the earliest. If they do come back then it won't be for long as once the new buses come into service they will be phased out.

 

[route101]

I don't think any will be in operation until January 3rd at the earliest. If they do come back then it won't be for long as once the new buses come into service they will be phased out.

End of an era indeed . Though head to Glasgow , still plenty there

 

[buslad1988]

Worth noting that Eclipse 175 has had new style hanover displays fitted. They are high-resolution and are styled to look like the old blinds - very smart. You’d never know the difference!

Most noticeable when ‘Not in service’ is displayed as it’s positioned in the centre of the display (plus ‘Not in service’ isn’t an option on the old blinds).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/micha...75-22MGNTw-p2v51V-ZnGy5V-eaRnHh-b1bw2a-byGcU3

 

[Jordan Adam]

Worth noting that Eclipse 175 has had new style hanover displays fitted. They are high-resolution and are styled to look like the old blinds - very smart. You’d never know the difference!

Most noticeable when ‘Not in service’ is displayed as it’s positioned in the centre of the display (plus ‘Not in service’ isn’t an option on the old blinds).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/micha...75-22MGNTw-p2v51V-ZnGy5V-eaRnHh-b1bw2a-byGcU3

They look nice, but these displays are all a bit gimmicky to me.

 

[LiviCrazy]

A question about Lothian Buses that has always puzzled me. I’ve always found their destinations puzzling.

As a West Lothian resident, I’m used to First using local Landmarks as destinations, for example buses that used to terminate at Livingston Toll said Shin Etsu as that’s a big significant factory that everyone knows in Livingston.

LB don’t seem to do that. For example the 23 terminates in the grounds of Napier’s Craiglockhart campus, yet has its destination as Glenlockhart (which as far as I know is only the road and not the area). Likewise buses that terminate at Heriot-Watt University make no mention of that, instead saying Riccarton.

Is there a reason they don’t identify campuses etc?

 

[VioletEclipse]

A question about Lothian Buses that has always puzzled me. I’ve always found their destinations puzzling.

As a West Lothian resident, I’m used to First using local Landmarks as destinations, for example buses that used to terminate at Livingston Toll said Shin Etsu as that’s a big significant factory that everyone knows in Livingston.

LB don’t seem to do that. For example the 23 terminates in the grounds of Napier’s Craiglockhart campus, yet has its destination as Glenlockhart (which as far as I know is only the road and not the area). Likewise buses that terminate at Heriot-Watt University make no mention of that, instead saying Riccarton.

Is there a reason they don’t identify campuses etc?

There might be a reason for only displaying the local area rather than the campus, although King's Buildings and QMU (Queen Margaret University) are both displayed.

Also service 23 doesn't terminate at Graiglockhart anymore, the 36 then did but now that also doesn't anymore.

 

[oldman]

They don't seem to like the names of institutions as destinations. They used to use Asda as the destination for the 4 and 5 but now its The Jewel even though the terminus is in the supermarket car park. I don't think the Queen Margaret campus has a name of its own, so they are stuck with QMU.

 

[Jordan Adam]

They don't seem to like the names of institutions as destinations. They used to use Asda as the destination for the 4 and 5 but now its The Jewel even though the terminus is in the supermarket car park. I don't think the Queen Margaret campus has a name of its own, so they are stuck with QMU.

I bet if someone waved some money in their faces they would though!

I can see the reasons for and against institutions as destinations, but surely the most well known and/or popular land mark should be the what is shown on the screen regardless. After all, it benefits everyone.

 

[tbtc]

LB don’t seem to do that. For example the 23 terminates in the grounds of Napier’s Craiglockhart campus, yet has its destination as Glenlockhart (which as far as I know is only the road and not the area). Likewise buses that terminate at Heriot-Watt University make no mention of that, instead saying Riccarton.

Is there a reason they don’t identify campuses etc?

There might be a reason for only displaying the local area rather than the campus, although King's Buildings and QMU (Queen Margaret University) are both displayed

There are some other places where the destination used isn't particularly well known - e.g. bus enthusiasts know about Elm Row but it might not resonate with as many ordinary people. Could be for a number of reasons, but I'd guess at:

• Putting the University name on the front might suggest to unfamiliar members of the public that this is a service for Students only?
• Putting the University name on the front might confuse people about which campus/location they are running to - a service to Napier or Edinburgh University could be to any one of a number of places. I don't know if Herriot Watt has expanded since I went for an Open Day there (many years ago) but similarly just putting the University name could trick passengers into thinking that it was going to another location. We all know where Riccarton is though. Whereas, now Edinburgh has more than one "ASDA", putting the name of the shop on the front might suggest that the bus was heading to the one by Slateford station or Newhaven. ASDA, as a destination, seems quite old fashioned now (given that most supermarket chains have multiple shops in big cities).
• When they do run to Edinburgh University locations they run to the name of the building/ area (Bush, Kings Buildings) rather than just the University name.
• Lothian seem to like simple destinations - e.g. "Bush" - it's not just confined to University locations though - "Granton" on the 24 etc could be replaced by "Scottish Gas"
• Plus, if the company changes name (e.g. the ASDA/ Sainsburys merger - or an academic institution spend large sums of money rebranding from "University of x" to "x University") then the bus company would have to update timetables and destination displays - at least the Royal Infirmary (one Edinburgh destination unlikely to be renamed/ merged/ taken over - hopefully!). Not every bus company is this switched on (e.g. my local bus service continued to show "Presto" as a timing point years after the Safeway takeover and then continued to show Safeway years after the shop became Morrisons!) but Lothian have higher standards than my local bus company did!

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

As a West Lothian resident, I’m used to First using local Landmarks as destinations, for example buses that used to terminate at Livingston Toll said Shin Etsu as that’s a big significant factory that everyone knows in Livingston.

I have no idea where that is and if I wanted to go to the Livingston Toll roundabout, I'd not know that was the bus to get. I had to google that location to know that it was the roundabout. It's the same as that in Edinburgh I assume as we have many tourists who won't know places like that but might have heard of a location such as West End, Riccarton, Jewel, Granton etc..

There are some other places where the destination used isn't particularly well known - e.g. bus enthusiasts know about Elm Row but it might not resonate with as many ordinary people. Could be for a number of reasons, but I'd guess at:

• Putting the University name on the front might suggest to unfamiliar members of the public that this is a service for Students only?

I can take the 61 as an example - it had standard life branding on it and even I, had no idea if that was for workers alone, like the C134 is for students only. Or is it a regular service too?

• 
  

  [*]Lothian seem to like simple destinations - e.g. "Bush" - it's not just confined to University locations though - "Granton" on the 24 etc could be replaced by "Scottish Gas"

They could name it Scottish Gas but what if there were 2 locations for SG? It's the same as calling it Edinburgh College - there is more than 1 campus so which one would they be talking about. I think keeping it at the location is the best bet, especially for those who don't know the area as well as others.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

The 61 can be used by anyone but admittedly I'm not sure if anyone actually uses the service.

 

[Darklord8899]

The 61 can be used by anyone but admittedly I'm not sure if anyone actually uses the service.

I believe the 61 is free to Standard life staff showing their work ID, normal fares otherwise (at least i seem to recall people just showing ID's but this was some years ago when I worked down that way)
The C134 never shows a destination (or number), "Private" blank or when there is a Hannover display "Edinburgh University Shuttle" is shown (or something of that ilk)
Can only board with Edinburgh Uni staff/student ID

 

[LiviCrazy]

I have no idea where that is and if I wanted to go to the Livingston Toll roundabout, I'd not know that was the bus to get. I had to google that location to know that it was the roundabout. It's the same as that in Edinburgh I assume as we have many tourists who won't know places like that but might have heard of a location such as West End, Riccarton, Jewel, Granton etc..


I can take the 61 as an example - it had standard life branding on it and even I, had no idea if that was for workers alone, like the C134 is for students only. Or is it a regular service too?

They could name it Scottish Gas but what if there were 2 locations for SG? It's the same as calling it Edinburgh College - there is more than 1 campus so which one would they be talking about. I think keeping it at the location is the best bet, especially for those who don't know the area as well as others.

I think you are missing my point. The reason First changed the destination to Shin Etsu is no one in Livingston knew where “Livingston Toll”.
My main point is why do Lothian use destinations like “Glenlockhart” (which is one road) rather than “Craiglockhart” which is the area? When I first went to Edinburgh as a student looking for the bus to my campus I looked for Craiglockhart knowing it terminated at Craiglockhart. If I hadn’t been able to ask I never would have worked out Glenlockhart was the same area. Things like that are the equivalent to if First were to say they terminate at “St Andrews Way” instead of “Deans North”.

 

[oldman]

On the other hand using Craiglockhart for the 36 would have been potentially confusing for people wanting to go to the Craiglockhart Sports Centre, which the 36 doesn't serve.

Another confusing thing is some of the names given to stops. On the 400 the other day I noticed that the stops at what everyone calls the Gillespie Crossroads (A70/B701) are called Viewfield Road while the ones on the 44 route are called Spylaw Park, which is doubly confusing because as well as being a street it is also a park in Colinton, some distance away.

 

[alangla]

They never used to have an issue with “via RBS Gogarburn” tram boards though. Very strange.

 

[LiviCrazy]

On the other hand using Craiglockhart for the 36 would have been potentially confusing for people wanting to go to the Craiglockhart Sports Centre, which the 36 doesn't serve.

Another confusing thing is some of the names given to stops. On the 400 the other day I noticed that the stops at what everyone calls the Gillespie Crossroads (A70/B701) are called Viewfield Road while the ones on the 44 route are called Spylaw Park, which is doubly confusing because as well as being a street it is also a park in Colinton, some distance away.

Thank you, now that I can understand.

I would have thought with the new digital displays they could add in subtext (like “Napier campus” or something like that) eg the Stagecoach X51 says Glasgow, then subtext via Maxim Park and Harthill.

I know with the old Roller Blinds it was a lot more inflexible but the digital displays are very responsive, surely they could utilise their capabilities more?

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

The new LED displays seem to be more inflexible to me as they only now show the terminus end point and no via points which is always been a complaint I have had with them. I would not think it would be too hard to put for example 26 Clermiston via Princes St, Haymarket, Zoo, Drumbrae... then when the bus is on Princes st, it drops that Princes st part from the display and shows via Haymarket, etc.. the displays are large enough to have that via on a strolling ticker at the bottom below the destination. With the blinds, they had this and it was great, not just for tourists but for locals too and of course, with the LED you can then have both names for the same place, ie as oldman said, Viewfield Road Gillespie Crossroads. Both places to narrow it down. There is also the announcer on buses which is great too but I guess that will be rolled out on more as the fleet is renewed.

They never used to have an issue with “via RBS Gogarburn” tram boards though. Very strange.

The reason for that I think is because RBS gogarburn is like an appendage on the A8 and unless you know the route and place very well, it might seem that from the Gyle, the bus (300) will go direct to the airport and not to the RBS too.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Gemini Two 354 (SN11 EBA) has returned from a repaint, but it has retained it's LED screens that it had before the repaint.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Gemini Two 354 (SN11 EBA) has returned from a repaint, but it has retained it's LED screens that it had before the repaint.

Why wouldnt it reatain its LEDs?

 

[VioletEclipse]

Why wouldnt it reatain its LEDs?

I was wondering if it would receive the same style of screen as Eclipse 175 did

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I was wondering if it would receive the same style of screen as Eclipse 175 did

But it's not long had the current ones

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

The new LED displays seem to be more inflexible to me as they only now show the terminus end point and no via points which is always been a complaint I have had with them. I would not think it would be too hard to put for example 26 Clermiston via Princes St, Haymarket, Zoo, Drumbrae... then when the bus is on Princes st, it drops that Princes st part from the display and shows via Haymarket, etc.. the displays are large enough to have that via on a strolling ticker at the bottom below the destination.

The new LED displays are just bog standard Hanover displays, at a slightly higher resolution than what you'd find, Stagecoach, for example, use, so they're not inflexible in the slightest - in fact, they're rather flexible. If you look online you'll find the destination sign editing software manual which tells you everything that these displays can do.

To have "via Princes Street, Haymarket, Zoo, Dum Brae..." along the bottom, and have each one drop off as you get to that location would require the driver to move onto the next destination via the controller which is an unnecessary addition to the already busy schedule, in my opinion.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

The new LED displays are just bog standard Hanover displays, at a slightly higher resolution than what you'd find, Stagecoach, for example, use, so they're not inflexible in the slightest - in fact, they're rather flexible. If you look online you'll find the destination sign editing software manual which tells you everything that these displays can do.

To have "via Princes Street, Haymarket, Zoo, Dum Brae..." along the bottom, and have each one drop off as you get to that location would require the driver to move onto the next destination via the controller which is an unnecessary addition to the already busy schedule, in my opinion.

Not if it were linked up with the "next stop" announcer and GPS location so the bus would know exactly where it is and would change the via point as needed along the route.

 

[Mal]

Would it be too much for Lothian to re-jig these new screens so that they showe the destination with about 5 via points scrolling below? Something like
CLERMISTON
Musselburgh, Portobello, Princes Street, Murrayfield, Corstorphine 26

A few years ago when Lothian first tried LED screens, they were laid out they same as the roller blinds and were quite clear. I see no reason that Lothian couldn't use the above layout.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Always find it interesting seeing depots operating services that they normally wouldn't.

E.G. Today the only two Marine services operating are the 25 and 26.

The 25 is at Longstone today and the 26 Central.

I wondered if Marine Drivers go to the other depots to drive these buses or not.

The 25 is no stranger to Longstone and Central do the N26 so does this mean that Marine drivers get the day off?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Always find it interesting seeing depots operating services that they normally wouldn't.

E.G. Today the only two Marine services operating are the 25 and 26.

The 25 is at Longstone today and the 26 Central.

I wondered if Marine Drivers go to the other depots to drive these buses or not.

The 25 is no stranger to Longstone and Central do the N26 so does this mean that Marine drivers get the day off?

The 25 should have stayed Longstone. Better at Longstone than Marine