EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[EM2]

You seem to have some double standards. The theoretical threat of violence if Brexit doesn't happen is awful, yet the theoretical threat of violence in Ireland, which you frequently warn of, is a legitimate justification for not leaving.

Of not leaving without a deal that respects the Good Friday Agreement.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Ah, another person who has no idea how international shipping works.

Perhaps if you understand how international shipping works (which your tone seems to be implying), you could answer Groningen's questions.... They looked like genuine questions to me.

 

[mmh]

I was wrong with Hull (they have already ships from the Mainland. Add Ramsgate and Portsmouth as harbours. Are transporters willing to pay extra for the longer route of the ferry.

But how is trade treated that moves through the Channel tunnel? Where will the inspection of import and export of goods happen?

Hull is on "the mainland."

The majority of the UK's exports and imports don't go through Dover. It'll almost certainly be the busiest road haulage port though, because of where it is.

 

[EM2]

Hull is on "the mainland."

The majority of the UK's exports and imports don't go through Dover. It'll almost certainly be the busiest road haulage port though, because of where it is.

To be fair to Groningen, they are Dutch. 'The mainland' is almost certainly a mistranslation, and they can't be expected to know the ins and outs of UK trade. How well do you know the details of imports and exports of The Netherlands?

 

[Senex]

Now we have two awful leaders, a mayor for whom the pinacle of his political ability seems to be to publicise his name on bus stops and in Tube stations and carriages as well as a bizarre passive-aggressive spat with the president of the USA, and a bunch of prats in the commons who carry on like a drunken egotistical junior debating society.

That's a nice concise and accurate summary. But it doesn't give one much hope for how that mob is going to get us out of the current mess.

 

[mmh]

To be fair to Groningen, they are Dutch. 'The mainland' is almost certainly a mistranslation, and they can't be expected to know the ins and outs of UK trade. How well do you know the details of imports and exports of The Netherlands?

I have absolutely no knowledge about Dutch trade, or indeed Dutch politics and economy at all. Why would I?

 

[fowler9]

Who the hell are Seaborne Freight? What exactly are you Brexiteers doing with our country? Apparently they have no trading history and no ships.

 

[furnessvale]

To be fair to Groningen, they are Dutch. 'The mainland' is almost certainly a mistranslation, and they can't be expected to know the ins and outs of UK trade. How well do you know the details of imports and exports of The Netherlands?

I know about the "Rotterdam effect" if that helps the discussion.

That means that any of the UK imports or exports to/from locations outside the EU which go first to a port such as Rotterdam by feeder ship for transshipment, are counted as trade with the EU rather than a third country.

This has the effect of artificially increasing the value of our trade with the EU.

 

[Jonny]

Jonny thinks there would be violence, I do. Going against the referendum would be highly damaging but unless it gets violent it will be minimal compared to what we have already done to ourselves.

Most of the people that I am close to would not go beyond obstructing specific vehicles or even the public highway and that is the worst I would even consider doing myself (more likely waving a placard and having a go-slow etc.), but people who are two or three links away from me claim to have had visits from Prevent (which is supposed to prevent people from becoming terrorists, hence the name). However I can see people doing things that would amount to riot if Brexit is interfered with; remember that riots are spontaneous and not planned far enough in advance to be able to give an accurate tip-off. Also the authorities are directly liable for damage caused during riots, something else for the government to consider.

 

[Jonny]

I know about the "Rotterdam effect" if that helps the discussion.

That means that any of the UK imports or exports to/from locations outside the EU which go first to a port such as Rotterdam by feeder ship for transshipment, are counted as trade with the EU rather than a third country.

This has the effect of artificially increasing the value of our trade with the EU.

Such goods could be moved under the TIR scheme which allows for the suspension of duty in an intermediate country whilst goods are in transit, being waived altogether once the goods have left the country in question.

 

[Groningen]

No with a No Deal almost everything from the UK will be checked by bordercontrol and for example life stock (animals). Inspections will cost time.

Mainland is Europe except Iceland, Ireland and the UK.

To all: that no knowledge about Europe except the UK i can onderstand, because (maybe) some never leave the island.

 

[HH]

Who the hell are Seaborne Freight? What exactly are you Brexiteers doing with our country? Apparently they have no trading history and no ships.

But they obviously greased someone's palm. Sing after me, "Sovereignty's a wonderful thing, babe"!

 

[nidave]

Not personally, but I can see some level of disorder happening, certainly more disruptive than a no deal Brexit. I'm very moderate compared to hardcore Brexiteers.

Look at the ^yellow vests^ in Paris. There is also quite a lot of upset among us Brexiteers about politicians who are seen as sell-outs or worse.

You knwo the "yellow vests" were about loacal tax rises

You seem to have some double standards. The theoretical threat of violence if Brexit doesn't happen is awful, yet the theoretical threat of violence in Ireland, which you frequently warn of, is a legitimate justification for not leaving.

hahaha I just asked a question - I asked if he was going to take to the streets - which was answered he wasn’t. You can take that any way you want. How is that a double standard - I think its a possibility that violence is going to happen either way.. in fact that’s a consistent view of mine. I also think people like the IRA have the potential to cause more damage and loss of life than a mob or a few riots. Again perfectly consistent with what I have been saying - I am not the one threatening violence persoanlly - there have been a few hints from others on here making these threats whuch is why I asked the question- again perfectly consistent.

 

[Ianno87]

You seem to have some double standards. The theoretical threat of violence if Brexit doesn't happen is awful, yet the theoretical threat of violence in Ireland, which you frequently warn of, is a legitimate justification for not leaving.

In this case, "violence in [Northern] Ireland" actually means risking loss of the current delicate stability and return to de-facto Civil War. Bit of a difference.

 

[EM2]

I have absolutely no knowledge about Dutch trade, or indeed Dutch politics and economy at all. Why would I?

And yet you expect a Dutch forum member to know about it for the UK?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

But they obviously greased someone's palm. Sing after me, "Sovereignty's a wonderful thing, babe"!

Errr, I don't think that's obvious at all. In fact that looks like a potentially serious allegation of civil service corruption, for which I'm guessing you have no evidence at all? There may be lots of things wrong with the UK Government, but we're lucky to live in a country where corruption within the civil service is remarkably rare. Far more likely that the Government were desperate to book a large number of lorry spaces to cover their backs. Large ferries capable of carrying lots of lorries aren't exactly the kind of thing that companies keep hundreds of them lying around 'just in case they're needed' - so the Government won't have had much choice and had to scrabble round for what they could find. And this was one of a small number of companies claiming that they could make ships available in time.

 

[Jonny]

You knwo the "yellow vests" were about loacal tax rises

The British version is about Brexit though...

 

[nidave]

Here is a situation where we have a government that doesn't have a clue which awards a contract to a company without ships for a crisis that doesn't need to happen. Then this makes perfect sense....

Questions have been raised over the Government’s preparations for a no-deal Brexit, after it emerged a £13.8 million contract to run extra ferries has been handed to a company with no ships which has not previously operated a service.

https://www.itv.com/news/2018-12-30/brexit-ferry-contract-awarded-to-company-with-no-ships/

 

[nidave]

The British version is about Brexit though...

Pretty sure it was the EDL who orgaised them - it was onyl a handfull like msot of the EDL marches.

 

[birchesgreen]

Well it could get hectic until they go to Wetherspoons for their first beer of the day, so we're safe after 9am

 

[mmh]

No with a No Deal almost everything from the UK will be checked by bordercontrol and for example life stock (animals). Inspections will cost time.

Why will it? Who is making that decision?

Mainland is Europe except Iceland, Ireland and the UK.

To all: that no knowledge about Europe except the UK i can onderstand, because (maybe) some never leave the island.

If you think all of Europe except those countries is contiguous you should probably be questioning your own knowledge before being insulting about that of other people.

 

[mmh]

And yet you expect a Dutch forum member to know about it for the UK?

If they choose to comment on it, of course I do.

 

[nidave]

Why will it? Who is making that decision?

Pretty sure WTO rules state checks have to be made or we will have sanctions applied.

World Trade Organization (WTO) rules are clear that checks would be required between EU-member Ireland and the British province of Northern Ireland if Britain crashed out of the bloc without an exit deal, the minister for the region said on Monday.

“The fact is that the WTO is very clear that if there are two different customs territories, checks have to be able to be carried out on a contemporaneous basis on consignments passing between the two territories,” Karen Bradley told reporters.

This will apply on in N.Ireland/S. Ireland and UK / France/Other EU Countries

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-b...it-uk-northern-ireland-minister-idUKKCN1NO18I
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-b...it-uk-northern-ireland-minister-idUKKCN1NO18I

 

[EM2]

If they choose to comment on it, of course I do.

Groningen didn't comment, they asked questions.

 

[furnessvale]

Such goods could be moved under the TIR scheme which allows for the suspension of duty in an intermediate country whilst goods are in transit, being waived altogether once the goods have left the country in question.

I'm sure they will be, but my main point was that the figures for trade between the EU and UK are artificially inflated by 5-10% with goods that are being exported/imported from UK to non EU countries, thus further undermining the remainer case that the UK is terminally reliant on the EU.

 

[nidave]

I'm sure they will be, but my main point was that the figures for trade between the EU and UK are artificially inflated by 5-10% with goods that are being exported/imported from UK to non EU countries, thus further undermining the remainer case that the UK is terminally reliant on the EU.

i thought it was the brexit people saying "they need us more than we need them"

trade between the EU and UK are artificially inflated by 5-10% with goods that are being exported/imported from UK to non EU countries

Have you a source for your claim? I know Ireland is opening ports for lorries to bypass the UK wich will help a little with the queues of lorries.
Plus we are speninding £100 Million which could of gone to the NHS or to fix potholes but is going to ferry companies

The French operator Brittany Ferries, the Danish company DFDS and the UK’s Seaborne Freight would step in to ease pressure on Dover in the event of no deal, allowing almost 4,000 more lorries a week to come and go.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...00m-spent-on-extra-ferries-in-case-of-no-deal

Is this on top of the £4.3 billion we have spent on brexit planning already which again could have build 100's of care homes, or given each person in the UK
£4,200,000,000/66,200,000=£63 tax free to spend (66.02 million (2017))

 

[Muttley]

Is this on top of the £4.3 billion we have spent on brexit planning already which again could have build 100's of care homes, or given each person in the UK
£4,200,000,000/66,200,000=£63 tax free to spend (66.02 million (2017))

Yet still cheaper than £39bn for nothing.
How much each is that ?

 

[EM2]

Yet still cheaper than £39bn for nothing.
How much each is that ?

If we don't leave, then we don't have to pay it. Everybody wins.

 

[Muttley]

If we don't leave, then we don't have to pay it. Everybody wins.

The problem with Danegeld is they keep coming back for more.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Yet still cheaper than £39bn for nothing.
How much each is that ?

Well yes, paying £4.3 billion is usually cheaper than paying £39 billion. But would you care to tell us what this hypothetical '£39bn for nothing' deal has to do with this debate?