Pete_uk
On Moderation
I don't know if it's been said, but according to Januarys Modern Railways all 800's have had their engines uprated to their rated performance.
Bet that's costing a bit
Bet that's costing a bit
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GWR Class 800
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Dren Ahmeti
Member
The slack is there for very good reason.
If I were to use an example of a non-stop run between Swindon and Paddington, you’d probably be checked at:
Didcot East Junction - Conflicting XC moves [esp. when late running] from the Down Main to the Down Avoider towards Didcot North Junction.
Reading High Level Junction - If late running XC put in front, restrictive aspects into Platform 7 (warner route) slow the XC to a crawl coming down the Flyover onto the Festival line, even though the speed limit is 50mph with maximum double yellows at the bottom of the Flyover on the country end; if another late-running train needs to go into Platform 11, the ATP restriction is 25mph with a red aspect at the end of the platform, slowing the train over the Flyover (unless it’s something on electric, I’d like to believe!) even more!
Reading Station itself - Good luck getting a clear run through Reading these days, cannot remember the last time I saw 1U28 (PAD-SWI non-stop “Flyer”) go through at line speed (95mph), the preceeding train sometimes runs late and checks the non-stop at Kennet Bridge.
Anyone have any updates on how the 80x’s fare with the gradients on the Flyover on a non-stop run?
(The universally hated) Heathrow Airport Junction - The wonderful brilliance that is ARS [Automatic Route Setting] will tend to always plonk a HEx infront of you here, causing you to slow to a crawl/stop approaching SN298 on the Up Main.
Paddington Throat - The tiniest amount of late running can impact the path through here, especially with one the signals being approach controlled for no reason (iirc SN105 on Line 1, DM).
AlexNL
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SN105 is approach controlled due to a problem, according to a post by @Nippy: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-class-800.100841/page-323#post-3740877
spark001uk
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Appears to have been that way around a year now. BTW Merry Christmas to all !
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Strangely enough, in my last 50 or so trips between Reading and Paddington, only one train I have been on has been checked approaching Airport Junction; all the rest sailed through at line speed. The one case where I did get checked, that was about 6 - 8 weeks ago and it stuck in my mind because it was the first time in about 2 years.
Have I just been lucky?
samuelmorris
Established Member
Common sense prevails. I wonder if they've modified the electric mode to match 802s as well?
irish_rail
On Moderation
Yes...
Dren Ahmeti
Member
No-one thought to put a Christmas message in the platforms at Padd whilst everything’s under a possession?
scotrail170407
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Does anyone know when the IETs will be working all services Intercity gwr services in and out of Paddington? Planning a trip down to Reading in April and wondering if any HSTs will still be in service by then...
"Spring 2019" is the official line at the moment.
I've just read the current Modern Railways which states that Swansea won't be getting any OHL facilities. So any sets that arrive at Swansea requiring repairs to pantographs or other 25kV equipment will have to run on diesel until they are tested at another depot.
cactustwirly
Established Member
Unlikely to be any services through Swindon.
There may be a few on South West diagrams, depending on how quickly the 802 introduction goes.
Pete_uk
On Moderation
How many 802s are there yet to be delivered? I'm guessing most of them?
cactustwirly
Established Member
I don't know, but only 1 9 car has been accepted into service
coppercapped
Established Member
Hmmm! I’m not going to hold my breath!
Over the past year Modern Railways has been publishing statistics giving the Miles between Technical Incidents (MTIN) for several of the new train types. From these one can calculate the miles per day per unit averaged over the previous four weeks.
For the four week Periods 6, 7 and 8 of the 2018-19 financial year which started in April, Class 800s covered 546, 510 and 560 miles per day respectively. The more recently introduced Class 802s covered 192, 351 and 393 miles per day.
On the other hand over the past several years HSTs were rostered to cover 750 miles per day and more - more in the summer and less in the winter. So the best of the IETs are running some 200 miles per day fewer than the HSTs they are replacing. Over the last three periods there has been no significant improvement.
If the miles per day does not soon rise to HST levels then there will be a shortfall in rolling stock even after all the IETs are delivered. The gap will have to be made up by HSTs.
So, ‘Spring’. Yes, the question is ‘Which year?’
What is miles per day? Surely if they replace a diagram like for like, then the miles are the same?
TractiveEffort
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There are plenty of 800’s running in excess of 900 miles per day, not sure how you have calculated those figures.
A technical incident doesn’t preclude the unit in question completing the days diagram.
All HSTs will be out of service in Spring 2019.
Clarence Yard
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They are indeed. Averaging fleet miles of a fleet that is still in delivery is going to give you some really dud figures.
The last HST workings on GWR are due to finish with effect from the May timetable. If the cl.802 delivery programme continues to progress as it was doing before Xmas, that may come earlier, driver training at Penzance permitting.
The last SX diagrams to finish on the Friday before the T/T change date are a PZ-LA, a LA-PZ and possibly a PZ-PZ, if that hasn’t gone earlier. Both of the first 2 diagrams I quoted involve lunchtime Pullman dining.
coppercapped
Established Member
The distance a train travels in a day. from leaving a depot to returning to one.
It is quite obvious that the diagrams are NOT being replaced like for like.
The public timetable effectively specifies the total number of train-miles that have to be operated in a day. Before the IETs were delivered this timetable meant that each of the 50-odd HSTs in fGW/GWR's fleet had to run some 750 miles in a day.
Since the IETs have started to enter service although there have been one or two additions the public timetable has been essentially unchanged so the same number of train-miles are required per day. If an IET unit only covers 393 miles in day and then to fulfil the timetable by 'replacing a diagram like for like' then some 350 miles per day are missing.
As the published data show no improvement in the miles run per day for the IET fleet over the last three months I cannot see how the IETs will be able to run the full service from 'Spring 2019'.
coppercapped
Established Member
30th June 2019?
coppercapped
Established Member
I bow to your more informed knowledge! However, in my defence, I would point out that the Modern Railways figures showed the Class 800 fleet as being constant at 44 units for the three periods 6, 7 and 8. For these three periods the miles run per day, even if a Technical Incident doesn't mean the unit is removed from the diagram, is still some 200 less than was demanded of the HST fleet.
Something doesn't compute!
The published data isn’t miles run per day, it’s miles per technical incident. As stated above a technical incident does not preclude the unit completing the days work. I think you’re trying to read something into the published figures that isn’t there.
superkev
Established Member
I don't think miles per technical incident is a very good measure as trains doing lots of miles at high speeds will always look better than say a pacer on stop start local. Witness SWT incredible figures on there long distance 159s.
Personal view is it would be better to use hours run per technical incident.
For interest servicing on plant like bulldozers etc is on hours run. Far more sensible.
K
Personal view is it would be better to use hours run per technical incident.
For interest servicing on plant like bulldozers etc is on hours run. Far more sensible.
K
Clarence Yard
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When the final cl.802 train is delivered, GWR will actually have so much surplus cl.800/802 stock (thanks to the delay in the timetable recast) that one or two may cover for the cl.387 conversion work as well another one or two allowing Hitachi to catch up with their mods programme.
The HST sets are going from normal service by the May TT change date, there is no doubt about it.
The HST sets are going from normal service by the May TT change date, there is no doubt about it.
irish_rail
On Moderation
Of the first 7 iets I drove alone 5 had serious or fairly serious faults. However I've done at least five in a row without problem so I think reliability maybe (slowly) improving. Here's hoping so
coppercapped
Established Member
The published data include the total miles run by the fleet in any four week period. Also included is the number of units in the fleet in that four week period and the number of TINs.
Dividing the total miles by the number of TINs gives the MTIN. If I do this I obtain the same value for the MTIN as Modern Railways reports.
So total fleet miles divided by fleet size divided by 28 gives the miles each unit is doing per day. Unless somebody is feeding MR with porkies the arithmetic is correct and this yields a figure which is 200 miles less per day than an HST.
But what figure are you using for fleet size? That isn't yet a fixed number as deliveries of 802s is still in progress, and the last 800 was only delivered a couple of weeks ago... Like I said you're taking the published figures - which I agree don't paint the IETs in a great light for reliability - and reading in something that isn't there.
As @TractiveEffort states several units are managing in excess of 900 mile diagrams without issue; and there is (now) becoming a surplus of 80x stock while we wait for the New TT to be introduced - units that are sat spare on NP or SG are going to be contributing zero miles to those run; while still be counted towards fleet size.
Fleet miles run isn't a sensible reliability metric.
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