Strangely early finishes on Cross-country

[Julia]

I was trying to organise a day out St Neots - Worcester on a weekday over the holiday period, and it struck me what an unusually early finish the Birmingham - Stansted route has, with the last eastbound train at 2025 from New St. I have no problem with leaving home early and getting back late, but this strikes me as remarkably restrictive for a main artery (particularly when routes via London are out because of the blockade at Paddington!). Is there really no case for something like a 2130 as far as Cambridge at least? Are any other long-distance services as bad?

 

[221129]

What date? Xmas eve and New Years Eve are the only two early finished that I know of.

 

[Julia]

Friday 28th. That's the last train on a normal day, it seems from CC's own printed version (unless I'm reading it wrong)...

 

[221129]

Friday 28th. That's the last train on a normal day, it seems from CC's own printed version (unless I'm reading it wrong)...

Correct, so I'm not sure what you're getting at?

 

[Julia]

The point is, 2030 seems a remarkably early final departure time for a service from a large hub which potentially connects with a lot of others?

 

[221129]

The point is, 2030 seems a remarkably early final departure time for a service from a large hub which potentially connects with a lot of others?

Its the last train to Cambridge which is plenty late enough. There are still trains which go to Leicester (the main hub on that journey.)

 

[Aictos]

The point is, 2030 seems a remarkably early final departure time for a service from a large hub which potentially connects with a lot of others?

The reason for that is because even though it leaves Birmingham early, it doesn't actually get to Cambridge until 23:10 where it waits for another XC service from Stansted to arrive and then they both as a single service head to the depot overnight.

There simply isn't the time for it to run to Stansted and back which is why it only goes as far as Cambridge for the same reason that the 20:21 is the last direct XC from Stansted to Peterborough and onto Leicester/Birmingham.

Sadly the best option avoiding London is the 18:24 ex Worcester Foregate Street to Birmingham New Street then connect with the 19:22 Birmingham New Street to Stansted which allows you to connect with either the 21:24 or 21:54 Peterborough to St Neots.

That might sound early but it avoids London and gets you home.

 

[Aictos]

Sno wof?

St Neots to Worcester Foregate Street basically

 

[Tomnick]

There simply isn't the time for it to run to Stansted and back...

Isn’t the time - before what happens? You don’t have to go to Stansted and back to achieve a later departure from Brum either, which is what the OP was getting at.

 

[Aictos]

Isn’t the time - before what happens? You don’t have to go to Stansted and back to achieve a later departure from Brum either, which is what the OP was getting at.

I'm aware of that, just at the moment it terminates at Cambridge and sits around for 20 minutes while it awaits another DMU to couple up to it then together they go to the depot.

If it left later from Birmingham then XC would have to either adjust it's schedule so it still arrives on time to couple up to the other DMU which would only leave Birmingham 10 or so minutes later so not really helpful OR adjust the workings so they don't couple up and go to the yard as two separate ECS moves which isn't productive especially as there's another service using that platform once that ECS goes to the yard.

Yes it would be nice to have later trains from Birmingham to Cambridge as it would to have a later service from Nottingham to Norwich or even extending the last two services of the day from being Cambridge terminators to being Leicester Terminators and stabling them overnight in the yard there however any improvements would need the schedules being looked at and I don't think improving the service between Birmingham and Stansted to be cynical is high on XC's plans.

 

[Tomnick]

If there is the demand for a later service - as opposed to retiming the current last one - then I shouldn’t imagine that an extra shunt move to the stabling point would be the obstacle that’s hardest to overcome.

 

[221129]

If there is the demand for a later service - as opposed to retiming the current last one - then I shouldn’t imagine that an extra shunt move to the stabling point would be the obstacle that’s hardest to overcome.

But there isn't.

 

[43074]

But there isn't.

There definitely is - the last departure from Leicester towards Melton/Oakham etc at 21:15 and the gap between the 20:52 and 22:22 for Birmingham to Leicester passengers are rubbish by today's standards, that's hardly going to encourage more people to use them is it? Those evening trains which do run are pretty well used so there's no reason more trains wouldn't encourage more people to travel.

 

[Class 170101]

I don't see why a 21:30 departure from Birmingham New Street to Cambridge arriving at 00:10 should be considered unacceptable. XC should also provide a 21:20ish Stansted to Leicester short working arriving around midnight Plus also a 05:15ish from Leicester to Stansted.

 

[Qwerty133]

I don't see why a 21:30 departure from Birmingham New Street to Cambridge arriving at 00:10 should be considered unacceptable. XC should also provide a 21:20ish Stansted to Leicester short working arriving around midnight Plus also a 05:15ish from Leicester to Stansted.

The problem with anything starting or finishing at Leicester is the totally illogical and increasingly ridiculous refusal by XC to train Leicester based crews east of Leicester. Unfortunately the attitude amongst many XC staff is to find problems with any attempts to improve the service and do absolutely nothing to attempt to resolve any of them.

 

[Class 170101]

The problem with anything starting or finishing at Leicester is the totally illogical and increasingly ridiculous refusal by XC to train Leicester based crews east of Leicester. Unfortunately the attitude amongst many XC staff is to find problems with any attempts to improve the service and do absolutely nothing to attempt to resolve any of them.

Depressing really but not surprising given the abandonment of Peterborough to Nottingham as a diversionary route post Nottingham blockade and resorting to buses instead.

 

[TheBigD]

Then 2022 Birmingham-Cambridge ran through to Stanstead for one year, Dec 2008-2009, and returned ECS. It rarely had anyone on board after Cambridge hence it being cut back to Cambridge.

As for the last trains either way on the Stansted-Birmingham route, they are lightly loaded. The last eastbound often carries single figures east of Peterborough and the last west bound similarly poorly loaded as it heads towards Birmingham.

 

[Aictos]

Then 2022 Birmingham-Cambridge ran through to Stanstead for one year, Dec 2008-2009, and returned ECS. It rarely had anyone on board after Cambridge hence it being cut back to Cambridge.

As for the last trains either way on the Stansted-Birmingham route, they are lightly loaded. The last eastbound often carries single figures east of Peterborough and the last west bound similarly poorly loaded as it heads towards Birmingham.

Well not sure if it was just Christmas Eve but when I used the 07:22 off BHM it hardly picked anyone up until Stamford so not sure if that's the usual pattern or if it was fairly quiet as it's Christmas.

I'm using the first service of the day tomorrow on that route so I'm guessing it will have hardly anyone on.

 

[Qwerty133]

Well not sure if it was just Christmas Eve but when I used the 07:22 off BHM it hardly picked anyone up until Stamford so not sure if that's the usual pattern or if it was fairly quiet as it's Christmas.

I'm using the first service of the day tomorrow on that route so I'm guessing it will have hardly anyone on.

I'm sure what is normally a commuter service into Leicester is always empty on normal working days...
Back in the real world that service is normally full and standing into Leicester.

 

[Starmill]

I'm not sure how anybody could possibly think that loadings on 24th December or 27th December are representative of any of the other days of the year tbh!

 

[Aictos]

I'm sure what is normally a commuter service into Leicester is always empty on normal working days...
Back in the real world that service is normally full and standing into Leicester.

Usually I get the 10:22 or 11:22 so have no idea how busy the 07:22 can be.

 

[jhy44]

Correct, so I'm not sure what you're getting at?

But there isn't.

You might want to watch your patronising, passive-aggressive tone. People come to these forums as a safe space to ask questions and discuss ideas, not be berated like a maltreated child. There is no need for it.

 

[Julia]

As for the last trains either way on the Stansted-Birmingham route, they are lightly loaded. The last eastbound often carries single figures east of Peterborough and the last west bound similarly poorly loaded as it heads towards Birmingham.

Surely there's an element of chicken and egg? People aren't going to risk planning multi-leg journeys if a connection going bad, or the event they're going to overrunning, means they miss the 20.30 and end up with a five hour journey via London (or the delights of finding a Brum hotel room for a night). Instead they - including, very reluctantly, me - take the easy way out and drive.