I predict misuse of e-bikes and scooters: legislation required?

[jon0844]

I expect the next things to get abused, given the ease of which you can disable limiters, will be e-bikes and scooters. I am sure many of these will be sold this Christmas and in the new year, lots of people will forget that they can't be used in a lot of locations (roads, pavements etc).

They're sold for use on private land and seem to have the same issues with idiots not taking any notice, just like drones not being used in many locations.

I think there will have to be legislation for this new wave of gadget that relies on people abiding by the law. It's pretty clear that these days most people are willing to break laws unless challenged.

 

[al78]

I expect the next things to get abused, given the ease of which you can disable limiters, will be e-bikes and scooters. I am sure many of these will be sold this Christmas and in the new year, lots of people will forget that they can't be used in a lot of locations (roads, pavements etc).

They're sold for use on private land and seem to have the same issues with idiots not taking any notice, just like drones not being used in many locations.

I think there will have to be legislation for this new wave of gadget that relies on people abiding by the law. It's pretty clear that these days most people are willing to break laws unless challenged.

E-bikes can be used on roads and cycle paths, and are classified as bicycles as long as the electric motor has limited power, the motor only provides assistance up to 15 mph, and the bicycle cannot be propelled solely from the motor (i.e. the motor has to be assist only). If the assist or speed limiter is disabled so the bicycle can be powered by the motor alone, and/or above 15 mph, then legally it is a moped, and comes under the classification of a motor vehicle with the usual license, tax, insurance legislation.

 

[jon0844]

As I said, people will remove the limiters - and these are the people I'm talking about. Companies are now advertising models that can do over 30mph, with a disclaimer and software limiting easily overridden. As we all know, a number of people won't care about rules.

Just as they didn't with mini motos, 'hoverboards' etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not convinced this will be anything like the issue drones can cause. You'd have a job closing a major airport using an e-bike, even one that can do 30mph.

And unlike a drone, which for most civilians is just a toy, they serve a useful transport purpose and reduce the cars on the roads.

 

[jon0844]

I think most people can see it was a point about legislation being needed to stop the abuse of products, not a suggestion that an e-scooter would close an airport. Hence the mention as an aside in the thread about a drone.

This now a separate thread so it should be even clearer.

Am I to take it that you think a scooter that can do 30mph is okay to use on a pavement because it helps reduce cars on the road?

 

[GB]

As I said, people will remove the limiters - and these are the people I'm talking about.

As already mentioned, if they remove the limiter and the motor provides power over a certain amount then it will then fall under current motor vehicle legislation...no need for anything more.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Am I to take it that you think a scooter that can do 30mph is okay to use on a pavement because it helps reduce cars on the road?

It's no more sensible to use that on the pavement than it is to ride a bicycle thereon. But I wouldn't have a massive problem with one being used on a segregated cycleway in the same manner Bromfietsen (mopeds) can be used on some Dutch cycle paths, nor with one being used on the road.

We need to rethink transport, not blindly ban - just banning these things is about as effective as the way the music industry wanted to ban downloads and have finally embraced them. Electric cycles capable of 30mph sound like a good thing to remove cars from the road and reduce pollution in cities. It's about facilitating their use with required legislation (perhaps cheap insurance with a low maximum payout and mandatory cycle-style helmets would be sensible, as well as mandatory brake efficiency standards).

And of course more Police on the streets to prosecute people genuinely misusing vehicles of all kinds.

 

[pdeaves]

There's already appropriate legislation. If someone want's to do something that breaks the law, having an additional law won't make any difference.

 

[jon0844]

There's already appropriate legislation. If someone want's to do something that breaks the law, having an additional law won't make any difference.

I'm talking about the sale of items in the first place. I'd suggest a hardware limitation that can't be changed with a quick software hack.

I'm on the verge of buying an assisted bike and would ride exactly the same as my normal bike. It's the scooters that are likely to be more dangerous. There have already been a number used on train platforms.

I didn't split this from the drone thread, but clearly there will be new rules coming on the sale and use of drones. I know licensed users who operate them for photography, and suspect the answer is to require all users to be licensed, with a control on the sale and purchase.

 

[DarloRich]

An overreaction to nothing. Expect legislation soon

 

[Master29]

An overreaction to nothing. Expect legislation soon

..Until you get hit by one and want to sue the user.

 

[Emyr]

You can buy a car with a top speed well in excess of any speed you'd ever do legally without visiting a racetrack. Some are limited to 250km/h by their manufacturers.

I see little reason for all cars sold not to be limited to 80ish (a little headroom to allow for "getting out of the way of blue-light vehicles" etc).

 

[jon0844]

I am not so worried about the speed of vehicles on a road. My car has a speed limiter option, in addition to adaptive cruise control, and it will stop you driving over the set limit until you kick down, as you might need to do in some emergency situations.

I can imagine one day limits may be set that you can't get around, and if a bike or scooter allowed a temporary boost then I'd be fine with that. Rather than allowing crazy speeds, which will only get faster as manufacturers compete.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can buy a car with a top speed well in excess of any speed you'd ever do legally without visiting a racetrack. Some are limited to 250km/h by their manufacturers.

I see little reason for all cars sold not to be limited to 80ish (a little headroom to allow for "getting out of the way of blue-light vehicles" etc).

I suspect it's only really Germany that would prevent EU legislation requiring all road-legal cars having a speed limiter at 130km/h (about 80mph), this being the highest speed limit you get anywhere in Europe except Germany.

I think I would be broadly in support of such a measure.

 

[Master29]

You can buy a car with a top speed well in excess of any speed you'd ever do legally without visiting a racetrack. Some are limited to 250km/h by their manufacturers.

I see little reason for all cars sold not to be limited to 80ish (a little headroom to allow for "getting out of the way of blue-light vehicles" etc).

There is much legislation with cars though and a few cash cows too, but that`s another story...

 

[Basher]

we have electric assisted cycles , limiting the speed can be argued both ways:- yes on the road fine make it compulsory to have insurance. No if you are not on the public highway.
If you have an accident and its the cyclist's fault and they do not have insurance then it could be bye bye to their house etc in a negligence claim.
I also think that it should compulsory to have insurance cover for mobility scooters, along with a CBT as with motorcycling.