Arriva Rail North DOO

[Matt_pool]

Not going to come as a shock to anyone here but strikes have been announced for every Saturday in January (5th, 12th, 19th & 26th)

Not forgetting the "planned cancellations" and last minute cancellations every Sunday, and the make it up as they go along service from Monday to Friday...

 

[Robertj21a]

Not going to come as a shock to anyone here but strikes have been announced for every Saturday in January (5th, 12th, 19th & 26th)

Not 52 then !

 

[td97]

On the same day Northern have gone back to ACAS. Seems to be only 1 party interested in reducing passenger disruption.

Northern has formally written to ACAS requesting it to use its powers to establish an independent inquiry into the issues at the heart of RMT’s ongoing dispute with the train operator.

The independent inquiry would look at the future role of the second person that will be on Northern services, in addition to the driver, to help customers with accessibility, security, ticketing, information and any other help required.

The inquiry would also explore the feasibility of Driver Controlled Operation, in which the driver has full operational control of the train, including the train doors.

Northern is calling for the inquiry in a further attempt by the train operator to get RMT involved in discussions to resolve its dispute which is now approaching its second anniversary. The inquiry would have an independent chair and panel members and contributions would be invited from any interested parties.

This Saturday, 22 December, will be RMT’s 41st day of strike action since March 2017. Northern has invited RMT to talks at ACAS on several occasions but without any significant progress being made.

Richard Allan, Deputy Managing Director, Northern, said: “The RMT dispute means customers, businesses and the wider economy in the North have suffered the cost of 40 days of RMT strikes, including every Saturday in September, October, November and now December. Customers, employers and colleagues are looking for both parties to resolve the dispute.

“More than 50% of all rail journeys in the UK are made on driver-controlled trains and recently the Department for Transport and Transport for the North publicly confirmed that a second person – in addition to the driver – would be retained on Northern services.

“This second person will provide customer service, including meeting customer needs on accessibility, safety, security, ticketing and information. Despite this, the RMT continues with its strike action.

“We call on RMT to join us in committing to the inquiry and suspending its industrial action whilst the inquiry takes place. This would demonstrate commitment from both sides to try and resolve the issues, reassuring customers and stakeholders that every endeavour is being made by both sides.”

The inquiry would look at the future role of the second person on the train across the Northern network and explore the feasibility of Driver Controlled Operation, in which the driver has full operational control of the train, including the train doors.

We have promised our conductors that their future role will be on-board our trains, we can guarantee that role until at least 2025, their current pay will be protected (starting salary for conductors is £28,250 pa), and their pay will be reviewed annually, if RMT ends its damaging dispute.

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/n...-independent-inquiry-to-resolve-rmt-s-dispute

 

[Darandio]

It's all of absolutely no interest to the RMT of course, it's all a publicity stunt.

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-calls-on-northern-rail-to-cut-the-publicity-stunts/

RAIL UNION RMT responds to call for an “inquiry” from Arriva Rail North into guards’ safety dispute.

RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said:

“The call for an inquiry is nothing more than a PR stunt and we have not seen any proposals from Northern Rail whatsoever that would make serious progress in terms of resolving the dispute. The company are seeking to kick the issue of rail safety into the long grass indefinitely rather than facing up to the fundamental issue of the guard guarantee on their trains and there is no way that RMT will allow them to get away with this chicanery.

“The answer to resolving this dispute is not an inquiry but meaningful negotiations. However, not only is the government working behind the scenes to block such negotiations but it is wilfully using taxpayers money to bail out Northern Rail for revenues lost as a result of strike action meaning the company have no financial incentive whatsoever to settle in a serious fashion.

“We don’t need an inquiry, we need genuine and meaningful ACAS talks focussed on retaining a guard on Northern trains with the full suite of safety and operational competencies including at the crucial platform/train interface. RMT stands ready for talks but we will not allow the company to railroad the issues at the heart of the dispute with meaningless gestures designed to buy time and delay a solution.

“The RMT action remains on.”

 

[Killingworth]

On the same day Northern have gone back to ACAS. Seems to be only 1 party interested in reducing passenger disruption.

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/n...-independent-inquiry-to-resolve-rmt-s-dispute

To which the RMT comes back with more strike dates and the point that seems be causing all the bother is how we define "safety critical", see ;
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-confirms-raft-of-new-strike-dates-on-northern-rail191218/

"19 December 2018

RMT Press Office:

RMT confirms raft of new strike dates on Northern Rail in fight over guards and rail safety as members gear up for 41st day of action Saturday‎.

RAIL UNION RMT has confirmed a raft of new strike dates on Arriva Rail North over attacks on the role of the safety-critical guard and the extension of Driver Only Operation in the name of increased profits. The announcement comes as members gear up for the 41st day of strike action on Saturday.

The long-running campaign of action takes place as the company continues to refuse to engage in serious and meaningful talks around the guard guarantee that could form the basis for a settlement. Instead it has carried out a publicity stunt this week by calling for an inquiry into the dispute.

No inquiry is needed into the fact that company bosses have strung union negotiators along rather than looking seriously for a settlement when there has been an opportunity to strike an agreement on the ‎guard guarantee that matches the best practice in the industry and in line with deals struck by the union across Wales, Scotland and other parts of England. They have not made a single serious offer to the union aimed at resolving the dispute.

All RMT Arriva Rail North Conductor, Conductor Instructor and Train Driver members had already been instructed to take action as follows:

Not to book on for on for duty between:

• 00:01 hours and 23:59 hours on Saturday 22nd December 2018
• 00:01 hours and 23:59 hours on Saturday 29th December 2018

The additional dates that RMT members are instructed to not to book on are for any shifts that commence between:-

• 00.01 Hours and 23.59 Hours on Saturday 5th January 2019
• 00.01 Hours and 23.59 Hours on Saturday 12th January 2019
• 00.01 Hours and 23.59 Hours on Saturday 19th January 2019
• 00.01 Hours and 23.59 Hours on Saturday 26th January 2019

RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said:

“RMT continues to make every effort to get serious and meaningful talks going with Northern but the company are not interested and would prefer to call for an inquiry into the dispute to deflect attention from the impact of their behaviour on the travelling public.

“German-owned Northern Rail want to run nearly half a million trains a year without a safety critical guard on board in a move that would wreck both safety and access ‎to services and they should listen to their front-line staff and pull back from that plan immediately.

“We thank the public for their support and understanding throughout this dispute over rail safety and access and the union remains ready for genuine and serious talks.”

 

[Gems]

Not quite sure where Northern think running back to ACAS is going to lead. ACAS have no power to end this dispute, and Northern in the past has treat the whole ACAS process with contempt. Couldn't have anything to do with trying to create a smokescreen on the day more strikes were announced, could it? This is the third time they have come up with some grand plan as the deadline for continuation of action has loomed.

Well that is January taken care of. February and March will soon follow.

 

[gazzaa2]

Not going to come as a shock to anyone here but strikes have been announced for every Saturday in January (5th, 12th, 19th & 26th)

Guards are used to their Saturdays off now and will be quite content.

It's cynical the way Saturdays only are targeted. They won't bother at all with weekday strikes now, just keep their weekends free and avoid the Saturday drunks.

If they really want to make things difficult to Northern, why restrict to one day a week (a day they don't want to work anyway)?

 

[Darandio]

“We thank the public for their support and understanding throughout this dispute over rail safety and access and the union remains ready for genuine and serious talks.”

They are deluded beyond belief.

 

[Gems]

Guards are used to their Saturdays off now and will be quite content.

It's cynical the way Saturdays only are targeted. They won't bother at all with weekday strikes now, just keep their weekends free.

Why is it cynical? Explain why the one day of the week that makes it difficult for management is cynical.

 

[Gems]

They are deluded beyond belief.

I'm deluded, I'm deluded. No I'm not, I do the job and understand the issues. You don't.

I can't remember ever, any passenger ever saying they disagree with the strikes to me.

 

[gazzaa2]

Why is it cynical? Explain why the one day of the week that makes it difficult for management is cynical.

1) It gives them the weekend off. If you want a day off Monday to Saturday then you choose Saturday.
2) They don't like having to put up with the drunks on a Saturday, despite striking over demands of guards on every train on the network.
3) Why not strike on more random weekdays? It still causes plenty of disruption for people - which is the idea - but they lose their routine of having every Saturday off. Who wants to lose a day's pay for a random Tuesday?

 

[Gems]

1) It gives them the weekend off. If you want a day off Monday to Saturday then you choose Saturday.
2) They don't like having to put up with the drunks on a Saturday, despite striking over demands of guards on every train on the network.
3) Why not strike on more random weekdays? It still causes plenty of disruption for people - which is the idea - but they lose their routine of having every Saturday off. Who wants to lose a day's pay for a random Tuesday?

1) It's doesn't give anyone the weekend off. It is a strike and a loss of money. Nobody is rostered every Saturday anyhow.
2) We have put up with drunks for years and years. Nice not to have to worry about them for a while, but hardly a compelling reason to strike for that reason.
3) Strikes are called to disrupt managements ability to run services. That is why people strike.

 

[gazzaa2]

1) It's doesn't give anyone the weekend off. It is a strike and a loss of money. Nobody is rostered every Saturday anyhow.
2) We have put up with drunks for years and years. Nice not to have to worry about them for a while, but hardly a compelling reason to strike for that reason.
3) Strikes are called to disrupt managements ability to run services. That is why people strike.

More compelling for the guards to strike on a Saturday than a weekday though.

 

[Gems]

It is simple dynamics of the situation. Management don't like working Saturdays, so Saturdays it is.

 

[Carlisle]

It is something which I feel most Northern guards would accept in the end. Whether or not its on the table, or whether the RMT would still have to play hardball to get I have no idea.

Yes, it’s a shame judging by the RMTs announcements today that insufficient people properly able to influence these decisions appear to share your line of thought, only wanting to carry on in the hope of capitulation

 

[Moonshot]

Guards are used to their Saturdays off now and will be quite content.

It's cynical the way Saturdays only are targeted. They won't bother at all with weekday strikes now, just keep their weekends free and avoid the Saturday drunks.

If they really want to make things difficult to Northern, why restrict to one day a week (a day they don't want to work anyway)?

Indeed we are....I have to admit I would rather strike on a Saturday, so as I get to watch the footy. And avoid the drunks etc

 

[Gems]

If the compromise is that the guard is fully safety trained and able to dispatch where the DCO system fails or driver is unable to for whatever reason then that maybe something the RMT would accept as they have on Anglia. This would also prevent trains being cancelled for equipment failure. Aligning diagrams so drivers and guards largely do the same work in a shift would also minimise short notice cancellations as the guard would be where the driver is (this may need changes to guards t&C's which again may be a compromise). Rather than the completely random diagrams with multiple crew changes Northern currently have.

This would give the performance benefits many are asking for along with customer service and safety benefits, and would guarantee a second safety critical person on every train. It would also prove that this is not a short or long-term cost cutting exercise or an attempt at union bashing by the government so would be win,win for passengers, the RMT and the DFT.

Goodness me, a sensible post. Arriva won't go for it though, because the ultimate motive is at some point to remove second persons.

 

[ivanhoe]

Why do the RMT state “German owned”Arriva Trains. Is it pandering to the Tommy Robinson’s of the world? Really crass statement which undermines what it is trying to achieve.

 

[Gems]

Why do the RMT state “German owned”Arriva Trains. Is it pandering to the Tommy Robinson’s of the world? Really crass statement which undermines what it is trying to achieve.

Actually you are totally wrong. It has opened peoples eyes, and a lot of people ask why a German owned company is taking taxpayer funded profits out of the country.

 

[Darandio]

Actually you are totally wrong. It has opened peoples eyes, and a lot of people ask why a German owned company is taking taxpayer funded profits out of the country.

It is crass, you are Mick Cash and I claim whatever monetary value it is these days.

 

[Gems]

It is crass, you are Mick Cash and I claim whatever monetary value it is these days.

It isn't crass, it is politics, and the Tory party has been playing similar games for the past two years. It is called 'Hostile environment policy' and they used it to devastating effect to get people to vote for this almighty mess the country is now in. If the Tory's can play it, why not the RMT?

 

[Carlisle]

ACAS have no power to end this dispute,

Unfortunately that statement merely confirms the already widely held view that RMT are completely ignorant of a strike being a tactic of last resort, and almost always prefer using it to negotiations of any sort unless ones prepared to capitulate.

 

[Gems]

Unfortunately that statement t pretty mucch confirms the already widely held view that RMT are completely ignorant of a strike being a tactic of last resort, and almost always prefer it to negotiations of any sort unless ones prepared to capitulate.

ACAS have no legal power to end any dispute. It is a simple fact, and Northern wanting to pretend otherwise has more to do with the fact that they knew more strike dates were going to be called within days. More game playing.

 

[Kite159]

It isn't crass, it is politics, and the Tory party has been playing similar games for the past two years. It is called 'Hostile environment policy' and they used it to devastating effect to get people to vote for this almighty mess the country is now in. If the Tory's can play it, why not the RMT?

There we have it folks, the RMT won't stop until Steptoe is in number 10, and Mr Cash can shake his hand on the front door step in the hope Steptoe can roll back time to the 1970s when unions ran the country...

It is purely political.

 

[Gems]

There we have it folks, the RMT won't stop until Steptoe is in number 10, and Mr Cash can shake his hand on the front door step in the hope Steptoe can roll back time to the 1970s when unions ran the country...

It is purely political.

70's, well that would be a huge step forward from the lurch back to Victorian times this government is taking us. Homeless, poverty, workers rights destroyed, disabled benefits slashed, hostile environment politics towards immigrants, zero hour contracts.

Goodness me, don't dare wish for anything better will you.

 

[Carlisle]

ACAS have no legal power to end any dispute. It is a simple fact, and Northern wanting to pretend otherwise has more to do with the fact that they knew more strike dates were going to be called within days. More game playing.

It’s probably not game playing, it’s far more likley to be about trying to get both sides to actually sit down and put some faith in a knowledgeable but independent opinion of certain longstanding and at times very entrenched positions.

 

[Mag_seven]

Homeless, poverty, workers rights destroyed, disabled benefits slashed, hostile environment politics towards immigrants, zero hour contracts.

All of those will be made worse by Brexit - which the RMT supports!

 

[ivanhoe]

Actually you are totally wrong. It has opened peoples eyes, and a lot of people ask why a German owned company is taking taxpayer funded profits out of the country.

Opened peoples eyes? What planet are you on? I probably get an Arriva Bus couple of times a week, and the only issue people at the bus stop have, is will it be on time? Ownership by a Company that is German owned, rarely hits the radar. What does he say if it is a British owned Company? Does he extol it’s Britishness, or probably say nothing. It’s crass to mention the Country of ownership. By all means, state your opposition to the current set up of the railways and give your case for full Public Ownership.

 

[Meerkat]

the company continues to refuse to engage in serious and meaningful talks around the guard guarantee

Since when does capitulation equal any kind of negotiation? “Guard guarantee” is Northern getting nothing and RMT getting everything.

The PR battle is only going one way - just read Northern’s statement.
Passengers want second person - Northern are guaranteeing that.
DCO is proven safe - RMT are shouting at the wind.
Pointing out to passengers that guards start on £28k is playing a little dirty but will really resonate with passengers.

 

[Meerkat]

For years people wanted state owned railways that were as good as foreign railways.
Now we have foreign state owned railways and still they moan!