SWT to Weymouth...or not

[embers25]

I'm just curious as to how many Weymouth trains a day actually make it to Weymouth as for at least the past month every day a significant amount of them have been cancelled beyond Dorchester and rather a lot beyond Bournemouth. Also the returns often are so late they run non-stop from either Soton or Winchester.
Is this just a freak situation or something else. I realise Bournemouth station staff and crews often cause huge delays by being incapable of separating the trains, being incapable of appearing on time for work and being hopeless at dispatching but surely these can't be the only reasons. Also if a train runs fast from Soton to London and in so doing arrives within charter goals is it counted against punctuality figures still given it missed loads of stops or is it yet another sneaky way SWT are massaging their figures?
Finally I was in Waterloo last night and managed to pick up all the new SWT timetables but I note that the Soton tunnel ones (19, 25, 26 and 28) are only weekday ones and so are SWT not bothering to publish weekend ones?

 

[royaloak]

None this weekend, line closed between Eastleigh (ESL) and Southampton Central (SOU).
Landslip last Tuesday near Upwey (UPW) so a lot of trains were turned around at Dorchester South (DCH) with single line working (with a shuttle train) running to Weymouth, so that ruined last week.

 

[Helvellyn]

I realise Bournemouth station staff and crews often cause huge delays by being incapable of separating the trains, being incapable of appearing on time for work and being hopeless at dispatching.

Lot of tar being thrown around by your brush there. :roll:

 

[SWT Driver]

embers25.

I find your attitude one of total ignorance & downright arrogant, as you obviously have very little or NO operating knowledge of the railway or any of the problems that may occur during the coupling & separation of Desiro units.

You obviously have no idea of the rules & regulations which traincrew are bound by, nor the problems which can affect traincrew on their journey to work or personal lives.

So unless you're an expert in running the railway & are a psychotherapist/psychiatrist I strongly suggest you keep your self-righteous opinions to yourself.

Oh FYI & Inconvenience.

The line is shut between SOA & SOU and between SOU & WLS on Dec 12/13, 19/20 & continuously from Dec 25 - 01/01/2010 inclusive.

 

[thefab444]

I'm just curious as to how many Weymouth trains a day actually make it to Weymouth.

I would say at least 98% of trains make it to Weymouth. I would say at least 98% of trains do NOT run fast from Southampton Central to Waterloo.

Disruption last Tuesday resulted in trains terminating at Bournemouth and Dorchester, this was caused by a landslide at Upwey. There was also disruption on Monday evening caused by a points failure at Brockenhurst, and the previous week by a failed freight train at Parkstone.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

any of the problems that may occur during the coupling & separation of Desiro units.

Donkey attachment anyone?

 

[SWT Driver]

Yes, Desiro's can be a right Ass to couple up & at times uncouple too, particularly if they're on a bend or slightly uneven track!

 

[Pumbaa]

Ouch - talk about being hit over the head by 3 SWT staff!

However I think at least one of you reacted far too agressively, it was a question after all, perhaps wanting some light thrown on a situation that's obviously on the OPs mind. I'd feel quite p'eed off if I was to read this thread back.

And sorry embers25, I can't enlighten you any further.

 

[thefab444]

Well, maybe if the OP hadn't added copius hyperbole to his/her post, the replies would have been more helpful?

 

[SWT Driver]

Ouch - talk about being hit over the head by 3 SWT staff!

However I think at least one of you reacted far too agressively, it was a question after all, perhaps wanting some light thrown on a situation that's obviously on the OPs mind. I'd feel quite p'eed off if I was to read this thread back.

And sorry embers25, I can't enlighten you any further.

If he can't take the criticism back then (s)he shouldn't avail himself of it then should (s)he.

 

[royaloak]

When the OP comes out with statements such as-

I realise Bournemouth station staff and crews often cause huge delays by being incapable of separating the trains, being incapable of appearing on time for work and being hopeless at dispatching

What do they honestly expect, maybe if we knew what job (if any) they did we could have a go at them with absolutely no proof whatsoever to back up our claims!

 

[devon_metro]

embers25.

I find your attitude one of total ignorance & downright arrogant, as you obviously have very little or NO operating knowledge of the railway or any of the problems that may occur during the coupling & separation of Desiro units.

You obviously have no idea of the rules & regulations which traincrew are bound by, nor the problems which can affect traincrew on their journey to work or personal lives.

So unless you're an expert in running the railway & are a psychotherapist/psychiatrist I strongly suggest you keep your self-righteous opinions to yourself.

Sounds a bit like railway management

 

[SWT Driver]

As the saying goes... Harsh, but true.

Anyway...

 

[embers25]

Lets just say I have more insight into the operations of the railway than you might think but based on our previous exchanges I half expected your response as you have a VERY blinkered view of SWT. Many are supportive of the company they work for but sometimes you have to see the wood for the trees.

I raised this issue as Weymouth is an Olympic route and so very important to 2012. Can you imagine the embarrassment to the country if many spectators/athletes are dumped off at Dorchester due to late running or are delayed reaching the venue because SWT staff at Bournemouth couldn't detach a Desiro. I can imagine it now "Sorry for the cancellation but we can't separate our trains. We've had them for years and yet still can't be bothered to figure out a reliable way of detaching them as it's just easier to cancel the train. We know we have trouble detaching on corners so we chose the curved station of Bournemouth to do it. Oh and by the way due to the knock on delay the next train will terminate at Dorchester with no bus on due to olympic congestion."

If detaching is that huge a problem maybe do it at Soton or Brockenhurst where the platforms are straighter. I realise that could cause capacity/pathing issues but it's better than cancelling them. Also when Virgin had issues attaching 57's to pendos a lot of time and money was spent figuring out a solution and whilst not perfect it's rare coupling is an issue now in my experience and observation.

I raise the issue about Bournemouth staff as I have yet to pass through there without some screw up and their ability to dispatch on time is non-existant. If Waterloo, Woking and Basingstoke staff can manage it why can't they. Also on any major event day it is always chaos and the platform staff have no clue hw to handle a crowd, which is worrying for the olympics.

I know the Fratton depot trains make their way down Weymouth way during the day as well but maybe the crews don't. I say that as Fratton drivers and crews and Pompey line station staff are just in a different league to the rest of SWT.

Also my original question still remains...If SWT run fast missing stations enabling them to arrive within permitted charter levels does it still count against their punctuality figures? Also if a Weymouth service terminates short and restarts from Dorchester to make up time and then arrives in Waterloo on time does that count against SWT as a cancellation/delay both ways, one way or neither?

I actually think SWT have it right terminating early/running fast as it helps recover the service after delays far quicker however it should still count against them otherwise their figures become pure fiction. Also, when it becomes a habit then if the figures cover it up nothing will ever get done to fix it.

 

[thefab444]

Your name wouldn't happen to be Denis Fryer would it? And you wouldn't happen to run the South Hants Rail Users Group would you?

 

[SWT Driver]

If it is that means the Totton Gestapo are here.

A bunch of troublemakers, for whom I have no pity.

 

[devon_metro]

Your name wouldn't happen to be Denis Fryer would it? And you wouldn't happen to run the South Hants Rail Users Group would you?

Careful, they could misconstrued that as some kind of assault

 

[embers25]

No I'm not although the initials that make up the "South Hants Rail Users Group" are SHRUG...the standard response of most SWT staff when you ask them about ticket restrictions, before insisting they are right. I'm also glad to see you have "respect" for the rail user group...after all why would you care about your passengers we're just an inconvenience.

 

[devon_metro]

The SHRUG wouldn't be out of place in the Daily Mail News room. Some of the nonsense they come out with!

SWT’S EXTRAORDINARY PERSECUTION OF HONEST, DECENT PASSENGERS: LETTER TO MPs IN THE SWT AREA

 

[SWT Driver]

Well ok, I'll not pull any punches.

I think that SWT's passengers are some of the most ignorant, arrogant, self righteous & conceited people around, particularly those East of Basingstoke & North of Petersfield, Alton line users are a right bunch of little (censored!).

You have No manners, You never say Please or Thank you, You just snatch, push or grunt.

I would compare you to animals, but as animals don't know any better I'd consider that an insult to an animal.

There are some passengers who do have some manners, however they are the exception to the rule.

 

[thefab444]

SHRUG is just a one man assault on SWT, even senior managers at SWT have become annoyed by constant villification by said group. I believe Stewart Palmer said something along the lines of "Whatever we do, Denis Fryer will complain" - and he's damn right too! Then they cry that SWT never take any notice of them!

 

[SWT Driver]

You ought to try the bullies called ALUA, they make the German SS seem like shrinking violets.

 

[Pumbaa]

You ought to try the bullies called ALUA, they make the German SS seem like shrinking violets.

The ALUA infamy has spread north of London too I doubt it will be long before others step into the Gestapos shoes!

 

[dan_atki]

I raised this issue as Weymouth is an Olympic route and so very important to 2012. Can you imagine the embarrassment to the country if many spectators/athletes are dumped off at Dorchester due to late running or are delayed reaching the venue because SWT staff at Bournemouth couldn't detach a Desiro. I can imagine it now "Sorry for the cancellation but we can't separate our trains. We've had them for years and yet still can't be bothered to figure out a reliable way of detaching them as it's just easier to cancel the train. We know we have trouble detaching on corners so we chose the curved station of Bournemouth to do it. Oh and by the way due to the knock on delay the next train will terminate at Dorchester with no bus on due to olympic congestion."

As with CeliaDrummond, I agree that about 99% of trains do make it to Weymouth. Considering they run every half an hour for the majority of every day (hourly on Sundays).

I think you're failing to understand what happened in Upwey last Tuesday. There was a landslide due to bad weather. Not really anything SWT could do about that - along with the one the previous week at Gillingham which actually resulted in a train being derailed. Do you want SWT to run trains through such areas risking the lives of all on board as well as those on the ground trying to put things right so more people aren't inconvenienced?

As it happens, last week they were running a shuttle train between Dorchester and Weymouth which isn't bad considering what had happened - it was evident to me at least that only one of the two lines needed to be closed.

The 2135 departure from Waterloo was replaced by a bus Dorchester to Weymouth. Even when they deemed it unviable to run a 5 car train at midnight they still provided the replacement.

From the way you're talking it suggests you think the typical lunchtime discussion in the Wessex Control Centre goes along the lines of 'I'm bored, let's inconvenience the people of Upwey and make up some excuse as to why we can't go there'. Is this really what you think? Controllers want to get kicks for messing with peoples' travelling? Or have I misinterpreted something?

Also my original question still remains...If SWT run fast missing stations enabling them to arrive within permitted charter levels does it still count against their punctuality figures? Also if a Weymouth service terminates short and restarts from Dorchester to make up time and then arrives in Waterloo on time does that count against SWT as a cancellation/delay both ways, one way or neither?

As I understand it, reading replies on one of their webchats, running a train fast is deemed (in performance levels) to be on a par with cancelling it. So you can rest assured knowing that because a train left Weymouth 30 minutes late but arrived in Waterloo 3 minutes late (within the permitted 5 minutes) because it missed out Southampton Airport, Winchester, and Woking then it is still bad.

 

[SWT Driver]

Oh yippee the bloody Olympic Games....

Really what we don't want or need.

I find it very hard to work out why we can't afford to pay the good Doc's & Nurse's on the NHS a good wage for all of the long & unsociable hours, we can't keep our hospitals & health services in good shape, yet strangely we can afford to have the bloody Olympic Games here, with all of the debt it brings.

 

[thefab444]

Fully agree.

 

[bluebottle]

We know we have trouble detaching on corners so we chose the curved station of Bournemouth to do it.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/354924

Want to try that again? The short stagings between the tracks show where the coupling and uncoupling happens. I don't see a curve. I've also never seen them have any problem attaching or detaching there.

 

[thefab444]

I know the Fratton depot trains make their way down Weymouth way during the day as well but maybe the crews don't. I say that as Fratton drivers and crews and Pompey line station staff are just in a different league to the rest of SWT.

 

[SWT Driver]

What you don't know is that I used to sign the road until a short while back, so I'm fully aware of what goes on at Bournemouth.

Thank you.

It may not be a kink/bend in the track (Eg. Portsmouth Harbour, where you can't couple up in P5, due to the curvature), it may well be a slight dip or rise which can do it.

If the units do not couple perfectly (mechanically & electrically) the the trains computer will not allow the brakes to release or the intermediate cab to shutdown, which means the whole operation needs to be done again from scratch.

You get "3 bites of the cherry" and then that's it. It's PAF/fitter time and it's then the rear portion will usually get terminated & put into the Middle Sidings OOS & the passengers transferred to the front portion going London bound.

Sometimes they won't come apart either so then you may need to swap cabs & try from the other one & all this takes time.

Unfortunately SWT's wonderfully incompetent & inept train planners have cut things to the bone & this leaves virtually no leeway for technical problems & the like, so you get delayed.

Mind you any driver who knows the road intimately can knock time out of the journey by using last braking points & a steeper braking curve, not that manglement like it, but if you've got good railhead & you know what the brake is like you can reduce the delays to a minimum.

 

[embers25]

I symphathise with the Upwey situation and thought they did very well to get the shuttle running. Similarly the Gillingham landslip/derailment. I also completely agree with the olympics being not what many want. Having commuted from Petersfield for a while I would change your rude pax comment to North of Rowlands Castle as Petersfield commuters are very rude to each other and also to the station staff who actually in my experience are hugely helpful and quite knowledgeable. However Guildford commuters take the prize for rudest.

On the subject of the Desiros 3 strikes and your out, are they trying to resolve that issue to give more strikes or less sensitivity or is it just not possible.

As for the % I'd hazard a guess at last month being nearer 90 tops...certainly it is less than 95% based on a simple count of all the ones I know of that turned back short versus the total timetabled to run and I'm sure there were others as I was hardly checking all day every day and no thats not Wessex Control's fault as they are just trying to recover the service. My issue was the spike in problems the past few months.

 

[Matt Taylor]

I know the Fratton depot trains make their way down Weymouth way during the day as well but maybe the crews don't. I say that as Fratton drivers and crews and Pompey line station staff are just in a different league to the rest of SWT.

Thanks for the compliment.......but do you have any facts to back up your opinions? The internal figures for right time starts suggest there is no great discrepancy between the provincial depots.