11 coach EMU at East Croydon?

[Waddon]

Hi,
This evening, whilst at East Croydon around 7.45pm, I noticed that one of the indicators on Platform 2 said that the delayed Brighton service would be formed of 11 coaches. I've never seen an 11 coach set before, although I suppose it would be technically possible (2x4 car plus 1x3 car)- does anyone know if this train ran at this length, and if so is this a unique formation? I would have stayed around to check but the train was already 20+ mins late and it was freezing...

 

[Surreytraveller]

377's come in 3 and 4 car versions. So, a train could be formed of 3,4,6,7,8,9,10,11 or 12 coaches. Although there might not be any trains booked to be 11 coaches, it is not unusual.

 

[Mintona]

It happens all the time on the Southeastern with 2x4 car plus 1x3 car, so I'd imagine it happens with Southern every now and again too.

 

[Helvellyn]

SWT have scheduled 2/3/5/6/8/9/10 car trains formed with their 158 (2-car) and 159 (3-car) units. You could also have 4/7 car trains, but none are currently booked these formations.

If you're catching an electric service and see it advertised as 9 coaches, then you know you've got a 450/444 combo.

 

[Moodster020]

Hi,
This evening, whilst at East Croydon around 7.45pm, I noticed that one of the indicators on Platform 2 said that the delayed Brighton service would be formed of 11 coaches. I've never seen an 11 coach set before,

That is highly illegal & against the railway convention (2007). Rules clearly state no service train is to ever exceed a length of 6 coaches, any TOC with the forward thinking & brain to run longer trains to meet demand will be penalised heavily!.

 

[Waddon]

For some reason, the thought of an 11 car train seems very un-Southern!

Maybe because I started travelling in the 4-car slam door era, where the only odd numbered sets were Thumpers (as so many of them are preserved, I wonder if we'll ever see a nine-car Thumper formation again?)

 

[thefab444]

11 car formations on Southern are pretty rare. I'm pretty sure I saw a 13 car 377, 1 * 4 + 3 * 3, in service once, but I'm not entirely sure.

 

[Evvy73]

As stated, 11 car formations are pretty rare but not totally unusual - there was a period of about 4 consecutive days a couple of months ago when the 17:42 LBG to Littlehampton commuter train was 11 cars. (2x377/4 & 1x377/3). It was amazing how much more packed the train seemed through just reducing the length by one carriage.

 

[NSEFAN]

If you're catching an electric service and see it advertised as 9 coaches, then you know you've got a 450/444 combo.

I have seen this once ages ago. I thought there were no booked workings like this?

Also, where (apart from on the information screens/announcements) are train lengths advertised? I don't recall seeing any timetables that indicate the train booked train lengths.

The most I have seen is GNER/NXEC/ICEC alteration timetables that indicate an HST or 225 set, but not the formation.

 

[jopsuk]

FCC put lengths in the timetable for peak services- on GN, southbound AM northbound PM.

EC, if it says HST or 225, then apart from odd occasions with coaching stock problems, they only have one formation for each of the train types.

 

[Fincra5]

It is probably a mix up with stock. the 3car was most likely ment to be a 4car but it was either unavailable or one of the depot staff brought the wrong train. Although this mix up is more common with the Metro and Interurban 377s

 

[Daimler]

Also, where (apart from on the information screens/announcements) are train lengths advertised? I don't recall seeing any timetables that indicate the train booked train lengths.

London Midland, to their credit, put the train lengths for every single train on every day of the week on their 'routecards'.

See the bottom of this page.

 

[Pumbaa]

Also to LM credit, they publish in their stations the length of each train. And announce the length of every service. They also apologise when it is short-formed. Bizarrely, I've heard it apologise for short-forming an 8 car train to a 12 car train. I assume that the system is meant to apologise for any change to length...!

 

[87015]

Also to LM credit, they publish in their stations the length of each train. And announce the length of every service. They also apologise when it is short-formed. Bizarrely, I've heard it apologise for short-forming an 8 car train to a 12 car train. I assume that the system is meant to apologise for any change to length...!

Still don't bother to put the train length in the main timetables though. Their CIS system can't cope with joins/divides en-route in relation to train length either.

 

[Pumbaa]

In that case I take the credit back

 

[Aictos]

London Midland, to their credit, put the train lengths for every single train on every day of the week on their 'routecards'.

See the bottom of this page.

That seems a good idea, how useful are they to you passengers and not forgetting staff as well?

What do other members think of this?

 

[moonrakerz]

SWT have scheduled 2/3/5/6/8/9/10 car trains formed with their 158 (2-car) and 159 (3-car) units. You could also have 4/7 car trains, but none are currently booked these formations.

I've seen the 1018 arrival at Salisbury from Waterloo (d 0850) often comprising 10 coaches, 2 X 159 + 2 X 158. Seems a bit of overkill at that time of day - is it to get them back to the maintenance depot at Salisbury ?

 

[MCR247]

Probably because its just come off a peak service, and its got to get back to Salisbury to wait to form a service into Waterloo which leaves there in the peaks

 

[thefab444]

That train, the 0850 Waterloo - Salisbury is formed off of a peak service in to London (the 0550 Yeovil Junction - Waterloo), so yeah, it's to get the 158s back to Salisbury depot. I believe that some of the units are usually locked out on this service, but I could be wrong.

With regards to 9 DES formations, there are none booked, but they are by no means uncommon. For a while, the 1905 Waterloo - Weymouth produced a 9 car quite regularly, but I think this may have reverted to 10.

 

[royaloak]

There was 1 SWT service booked a 9 coach, but think its 10 again now after the return of the 444 that got a bit warm last winter.

 

[Daimler]

That seems a good idea, how useful are they to you passengers and not forgetting staff as well?

What do other members think of this?

Extremely! When travelling with London Midland, I consciously time my journeys to get on the longest trains I can.

 

[Aictos]

Extremely! When travelling with London Midland, I consciously time my journeys to get on the longest trains I can.

Good thing I submitted another Capital Idea to FCC then, there's a backlog of them so I've been told with the majority from me....

Thanks for the tip, I doubt FCC would be interested but it's worth a go.

 

[Failed Unit]

Good thing I submitted another Capital Idea to FCC then, there's a backlog of them so I've been told with the majority from me....

Thanks for the tip, I doubt FCC would be interested but it's worth a go.

I thought I had seen them somewhere on FCC timetables, it maybe the ones at the station.

But I wish all TOC's would use them. For example Scotrail just after the peak still has some 6 car trains running around, and the 3 car trains are very overcrowded. Passengers for example may avoid using the 1815 Edinburgh - Glasgow service (3car) if they knew they 1830 was going to be 6 coaches.

 

[MCR247]

Its in all FCC TTs during peaks

 

[Aictos]

Its in all FCC TTs during peaks

I suggested to FCC that it's in all timetables and not just in the peaks.

 

[MCR247]

Sorry I was actually replying to the first part of Failed Unit's post

 

[Aictos]

Sorry I was actually replying to the first part of Failed Unit's post

It's okay.

 

[Drsatan]

Occasionally the 09:50 (from Romsey) ex.Romsey-Chandlers Ford- Eastleigh - Southampton Central - Romsey - Salisbury service is formed of a 158 and a (locked out of use) 159. Anyone know where the 159 had been stabled and what service it had been previously used on?

 

[thefab444]

I think you mean the 10:07 Romsey - Salisbury, which joins with the 09:33 Portsmouth Harbour - Southampton Central. The latter service is formed of a 3 159, and the former a 2 158.

The rear 159 is not locked out as far as I know, certainly when I bashed that service a few months ago, I travelled in the rear coach of the 159. However, the guard came through asking passengers where they were going, and anyone for stations apart from Salisbury got moved forward. When we arrived at Romsey, the driver stopped at the 2 car stop mark. Not sure why as Romsey can easily take 5 coaches.

 

[Drsatan]

I think you mean the 10:07 Romsey - Salisbury, which joins with the 09:33 Portsmouth Harbour - Southampton Central. The latter service is formed of a 3 159, and the former a 2 158.

The rear 159 is not locked out as far as I know, certainly when I bashed that service a few months ago, I travelled in the rear coach of the 159. However, the guard came through asking passengers where they were going, and anyone for stations apart from Salisbury got moved forward. When we arrived at Romsey, the driver stopped at the 2 car stop mark. Not sure why as Romsey can easily take 5 coaches.

Yes, that's the service I was thinking of. The last time I travelled on it (mid August) the guard said that only the first two carriages were in use when the train arrived at Romsey.