ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[hollyblue]

HST I was meant to be on today cancelled due to some sort of electrical fault on board. Utter chaos with people trying to get back up north.

WHole day been a shambles, two jam packed carriages on a 158 from Perth to edi this morning. It was full to the brim ten minutes before it was due to head off! Same scenario on way back too, woeful planning or simply not enough stock to deal with what anyone could see would be busy trains.

 

[SC43090]

Saturday 8th December 2018

1630 Edinburgh Inverurie should have been 43033 44004 42013 42012 41010 43179.... Due to a fault with 43033 was replaced by 170395 dep Edinburgh 25 mins late & was full & standing........

Just hope they don't have to many problems like yesterday evening shambles in the next few weeks

Got to say never thought i would have seen an HST in the bay platforms at Edinburgh... As the above set was in Platform 17......

SC 43090

 

[SC43090]

That’s a driver training turn.

Apologies didn't realise they were training turns.....

SC 43090

 

[47271]

Well, good luck over the next few days to everyone preparing and running the 'classic' HSTs.

The best thing that can happen is that 99% of people using them will notice very little, other than funny old fashioned doors and more space onboard. Then the trains can be left to get on with it until, eventually or if ever, the refurbs are complete.

The couple of posts immediately above remind us what the worst thing that can happen is: poor reliability. We know that it's bound to be worse than that for 170s, but we all have to hope and pray that it isn't significantly worse and a public reputation is earned. We'll soon know...

 

[ld0595]

Had a run on the first HST from Glasgow to Stirling this morning. That thing is fast at getting up the Cowlairs incline! Lots of staff at Queen Street trying to make sure everything ran smoothly. Few confused faces with the doors which slowed things down a bit, but I’m sure this will improve in the next few weeks as people get used to it. The HST is a huge improvement over the 170s in every way. Let’s just hope it’s reliable.

 

[Aictos]

100% happened and on more than 1 occasion. Also been used to move empties

Thank you!

 

[Highland37]

My other half and 8 year old are coming back from Glasgow to Inverness today. It will be interesting to see what they make of it. They like the new timetable.

 

[jamieintercity]

There's a HST on the Aberdeen to inverness line today and 3 on the Glasgow to aberdeen line

 

[InvHst]

There's a HST on the Aberdeen to inverness line today and 3 on the Glasgow to aberdeen line

Is their? What's it running and does anyone know what Hst services arr out of inverness tomorrow or in for that matter would love to see

 

[connormill]

Currently on a "classic" HST to Edinburgh, not terrible layout but I have to say the slam doors are adding to dwell time and the carriage is bloody cold!

I have been up and down closing droplights but there is still a noticeable breeze In the carriage, hopefullt this will be addressed by the returbs

 

[43094]

There has been more than one occasion where an LNER Driver has been used to move a Scotrail HST, ECS.

As far as I'm aware, no LNER Drivers have been hired to work Scotrail HST passenger services.

 

[Wst71Pa2]

Currently on a "classic" HST to Edinburgh, not terrible layout but I have to say the slam doors are adding to dwell time and the carriage is bloody cold!

I have been up and down closing droplights but there is still a noticeable breeze In the carriage, hopefullt this will be addressed by the returbs

Is it not the holes in the roof gettin wet when opening a door panel isnt a nice experience

 

[Aictos]

Currently on a "classic" HST to Edinburgh, not terrible layout but I have to say the slam doors are adding to dwell time and the carriage is bloody cold!

I have been up and down closing droplights but there is still a noticeable breeze In the carriage, hopefullt this will be addressed by the returbs

Mk3s have air conditioning though so regardless of the HST being slam door, that shouldn't make any difference and most certainly shouldn't mean a breeze in the carriage unless the internal doors at the end of the carriage are missing.

Slam Doors do add to dwell times as you need to ensure they are closed properly, I know of one incident a few years ago which a emergency stop had to be used with the HST half in/half out of the station and certainly past the signal starter as one of the doors on a HST was slightly on the catch which resulted in a change of working practices because of that.

Saying that though, checking doors on a 4/5 carriage HST although needs to be done in a safe manner shouldn't take as long as a 7/8/9 carriage HST as there are less carriages however EVERY door still needs to be checked as interlock can still be taken even if the door is slightly on the catch as my example above has proved.

The interior is only temporary as the refurbished ones have a different layout as far as I am aware.

 

[najaB]

...interlock can still be taken...

I stand to be corrected, but AFAIAA there's no interlock between doors and traction control.

 

[Starmill]

Has anyone come across a photograph of a 'Classic' HST at Glasgow Queen Street?

 

[ScottDarg]

Has anyone come across a photograph of a 'Classic' HST at Glasgow Queen Street?

I got one of the 19:44 to Aberdeen this evening:

 

[Starmill]

I got one of the 20:44 to Aberdeen this evening:

Lovely!!

 

[connormill]

4L at Arbroath, 8L at Dundee and slipping .

H

Mk3s have air conditioning though so regardless of the HST being slam door, that shouldn't make any difference and most certainly shouldn't mean a breeze in the carriage unless the internal doors at the end of the carriage are missing.

Slam Doors do add to dwell times as you need to ensure they are closed properly, I know of one incident a few years ago which a emergency stop had to be used with the HST half in/half out of the station and certainly past the signal starter as one of the doors on a HST was slightly on the catch which resulted in a change of working practices because of that.

Saying that though, checking doors on a 4/5 carriage HST although needs to be done in a safe manner shouldn't take as long as a 7/8/9 carriage HST as there are less carriages however EVERY door still needs to be checked as interlock can still be taken even if the door is slightly on the catch as my example above has proved.

The interior is only temporary as the refurbished ones have a different layout as far as I am aware.

I am well aware of the temporary nature of the interior and understand it will be be replaced by something better (hopefully) soon

The 2006 Aberdeen to Edinburgh today had a breeze due to some of the saloon to vestibule doors being stuck either fully or partially open,dwith passengers opening the window to exit without raising it again the breezb was inevitable.

Moving for carriage B to D resulted in a much warmer journey for ne!

 

[385001]

Has anyone come across a photograph of a 'Classic' HST at Glasgow Queen Street?

This was on Scotrail’s Twitter feed today.

https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1071696709351337986?s=21

 

[SC43090]

Iv'e been sent the following...... I understand the following services should have been HST operated on Sunday 9th December 2018

HA03 43143 41104 42208 42206 44066 43036 Should have worked the following

1A52 1233 Inverness Aberdeen
1H35 1522 Aberdeen Inverness
1H13 1801 Inverness Elgin
5A13 1859 Elgin Inverness ECS

HA04 43135 42325 42267 42269 42574 43134 Should have worked the following

1A81 0937 Glasgow QS Aberdeen
1T82 1332 Aberdeen Glasgow QS
1A90 1645 Glasgow QS Aberdeen
1T88 1932 Aberdeen Glasgow QS

HA05 43148 41022 42030 42010 44010 43003 should have worked the following

1T76 0925 Aberdeen Glasgow QS
1A86 1243 Glasgow QS Aberdeen
1A85 1629 Aberdeen Glasgow QS
1A93 1944 Glasgow QS Aberdeen


HA06 43168 41158 42200 42129 44086 43140 should have worked the following

1B44 1333 Inverness Edinburgh

HA07 43179 41010 42012 42013 44004 43033

1A87 1705 Edinburgh Aberdeen
1B64 2006 Aberdeen Edinburgh


HA09 43026 41146 42300 42299 44040 43136 Should have worked the following

2A41 1034 Aberdeen Inverurie
1T78 1103 Inverurie Glasgow QS
1A88 1450 Glasgow QS Aberdeen
1H37 1801 Aberdeen Inverness

SC 43090

 

[43096]

I stand to be corrected, but AFAIAA there's no interlock between doors and traction control.

Correct. On slam door sets, there is no interlock of doors to traction or brake - in fact there is no CDL connection between the trailers and the power cars. The sliding door sets have traction/brake functionality added.

 

[BRX]

I've always thought it strange that slam doors can be in that 'on the latch' position. Why would they be designed such that it's possible for them to be in any other state than properly open or properly closed?

 

[marks87]

I've always thought it strange that slam doors can be in that 'on the latch' position. Why would they be designed such that it's possible for them to be in any other state than properly open or properly closed?

For the same reason that car doors have a latch position. It holds the door in case of accidental opening.

 

[route101]

Anyone got the weekday and saturday diagrams of Scotrail HSTs by any chance .

Didnt think they would work the Inverness to Aberdeens so soon.

 

[theblackwatch]

Iv'e been sent the following...... I understand the following services should have been HST operated on Sunday 9th December 2018

HA03 43143 41104 42208 42206 44066 43036 Should have worked the following

1A52 1233 Inverness Aberdeen
1H35 1522 Aberdeen Inverness
1H13 1801 Inverness Elgin
5A13 1859 Elgin Inverness ECS

HA04 43135 42325 42267 42269 42574 43134 Should have worked the following

1A81 0937 Glasgow QS Aberdeen
1T82 1332 Aberdeen Glasgow QS
1A90 1645 Glasgow QS Aberdeen
1T88 1932 Aberdeen Glasgow QS

HA05 43148 41022 42030 42010 44010 43003 should have worked the following

1T76 0925 Aberdeen Glasgow QS
1A86 1243 Glasgow QS Aberdeen
1A85 1629 Aberdeen Glasgow QS
1A93 1944 Glasgow QS Aberdeen


HA06 43168 41158 42200 42129 44086 43140 should have worked the following

1B44 1333 Inverness Edinburgh

HA07 43179 41010 42012 42013 44004 43033

1A87 1705 Edinburgh Aberdeen
1B64 2006 Aberdeen Edinburgh


HA09 43026 41146 42300 42299 44040 43136 Should have worked the following

2A41 1034 Aberdeen Inverurie
1T78 1103 Inverurie Glasgow QS
1A88 1450 Glasgow QS Aberdeen
1H37 1801 Aberdeen Inverness

SC 43090

Thanks for this. I'm wondering if the one I've put in bold is correct though as HA04 contains no TGS.

Or has DOO been quietly introduced?

 

[43096]

Thanks for this. I'm wondering if the one I've put in bold is correct though as HA04 contains no TGS.

Or has DOO been quietly introduced?

It has no TF, either. They cannot run in passenger service without a TGS in unrefurbished condition as the TGS contains emergency equipment, has the accommodation for the guard and the CDL to 36-way translator that enables the driver/guard buzzer to work.

 

[najaB]

To knowingly replace reliable trains with unreliable is mad.

It remains to be seen if the short HSTs will be unreliable or not. From what I've read on this very thread, the fault that most commonly sidelined the GWR HSTs only manifests itself with sustained >100mph running - not something that will be happening on the Scotrail network. Throw in the fact that they'll be a fair bit lighter (meaning less energy being demanded from the engines and dissipated by brakes for acceleration) and there's every possibility that they'll be at least as if not more reliable than the Class 170s.

 

[jamieintercity]

Spotted 43033+43179 leave Arbroath on the 1241 Glasgow to aberdeen at 1426 today

 

[MatthewJ18]

Had the joy of travelling on the 'classic' HST yesterday evening. Imo its a massive improvement from the 170, as for someone who is of a reasonable height, I find the airline seats quite tight for leg room on the 170/158, whereas on the HST there was quite a lot of room. Think the only real downside is the fact the majority of the public don't understand the untold rules of slam door stock (closing the door if you are last on/last off) - but that is something that will come over time. Also I think it's probably another thing to point out, my friend who has absolutely 0 knowledge of trains commented on how "new and comfortable" the outward journey to Glasgow felt over the return on a 6 car 170.

Obviously it's not an ideal situation for Scotrail at the minute with only one refurb'd HST, sure there probably would of been better options to go down for their new stock but then look at the other issues that other TOC's are having introducing new stock.

 

[theblackwatch]

Please remember this thread is entitled 'ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion', not 'ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion and the A9 upgrade'. Many thanks.