Jointed Tracks

[furnessvale]

There used to be some unusual jointed track between Crewe and Derby when I commuted that way 10 or 15 years ago. I was told that it was 40-foot lengths imported from the USA during or just after the 2nd World War and the rail length was determined by the hold dimensions of the ships used to bring it across the Atlantic. Don't know how true that is, but it certainly made it sound as though a class 153 was flying!

The length was actually 39ft and there was certainly a lot of it about in 1964 when I joined the perway. We also understood the length was due to the size of hatches on Liberty ships!

 

[DelW]

The ultimate rail fan experience, joined track, Mk1 steam heat stock, telegraph poles and wires passing beside open windows listening to loco, whilst enjoying a coffe and apple pie from an RMB and tasty totty sitting opposite.

I hoped for a minute that you knew somewhere that those could still be experienced

 

[delt1c]

I hoped for a minute that you knew somewhere that those could still be experienced

I wish,

 

[AM9]

There used to be some unusual jointed track between Crewe and Derby when I commuted that way 10 or 15 years ago. I was told that it was 40-foot lengths imported from the USA during or just after the 2nd World War and the rail length was determined by the hold dimensions of the ships used to bring it across the Atlantic. Don't know how true that is, but it certainly made it sound as though a class 153 was flying!

I think that 40ft was the standard in the US as they would carry it to site in standard 40ft well wagons. Later, longer wagons enabled the longer standard rail length of 80ft.

 

[reddragon]

Until relatively recently (and I mean within the last two years) the short double track section of the Aberdeen to Inverness line between Insch and Kennethmont appeared to be entirely jointed. Not only that, it still had full telegraph wires at its side. I imagine the line speed there is probably 80 or so, others will know better than me.

They could use it as a film set, it is (or was) a picture perfect 1930s main line!

Indeed Google street-view of summer 2010 confirms this - a bit old though!

 

[Chris217]

I love the continuous jointed track
noises especially with Pacers and even better when they are coupled to a 150.

I know this ain't a mainline but
The best results for continuous jointed tracks have to be on the London Underground system.
Massive fan of the LUL.

 

[AY1975]

There used to be some unusual jointed track between Crewe and Derby when I commuted that way 10 or 15 years ago. I was told that it was 40-foot lengths imported from the USA during or just after the 2nd World War and the rail length was determined by the hold dimensions of the ships used to bring it across the Atlantic. Don't know how true that is, but it certainly made it sound as though a class 153 was flying!

I remember travelling over a section of short rail lengths on the Cambrian Line between Barmouth and Tywyn in the late 1980s, both on the then new Class 150 Sprinters and on the summer Saturday Class 37-hauled Pwllheli-Euston with Mark 1s.

The Canterbury West line also still had sections of short rail lengths in the 1990s.

Does anyone know if either of those, or any other examples of short rail lengths on the national rail network, still survive today? They used to be the norm in Ireland.

 

[krus_aragon]

Going on hazy recollection from a few years back, Barmouth-Tywyn is still jointed, but not with particularly short lengths of track.

Barmouth bridge has certainly seen track renewal since 1987, as there's no longer a break in the track at the swing bridge's opening (see picture at nwrail.org.uk). There are, however, some 90-year-old chairs supporting guard rails along the bridge!

 

[furnessvale]

Does anyone know if either of those, or any other examples of short rail lengths on the national rail network, still survive today? They used to be the norm in Ireland.

There is another type of short rail at 57' 6" long. These are secondhand 60fts where the crippled ends have been cropped and redrilled to give them a new lease of life.

Tricky for train timers who count rail joints! I often wonder if such track has caused the odd outlandish claim as to the speed various locos have allegedly achieved!

 

[181]

Does anyone know if either of those, or any other examples of short rail lengths on the national rail network, still survive today?

If I remember rightly, last time I went on the Mallaig line in 2013 there were a few short stretches with these rails -- one just east of Glenfinnan and I think one or more further west. On the Oban line, I'm fairly certain that a similar stretch a little way east of Taynuilt was still there in July 2017. I think Reedham to Yarmouth had some of these rails in 2011, but I have an idea it may have been relaid since them.

They used to be the norm in Ireland.

My memory of a journey from Limerick Junction to Rosslare in 1997 is that much of the route was laid with short rails, and I doubt if that route has had major relaying since then. I haven't noticed any short rails on more recent journeys on some of the routes radiating from Dublin.

 

[craigybagel]

My memory of a journey from Limerick Junction to Rosslare in 1997 is that much of the route was laid with short rails, and I doubt if that route has had major relaying since then. I haven't noticed any short rails on more recent journeys on some of the routes radiating from Dublin.

There's very little jointed track left in the Republic. After a derailment at Knockcroghery on the Westport line in 1997 Irish Rail embarked on a massive renewal programme. Every radial line from Dublin its CWR in its entirety pretty much - and even parts of the Limerick - Nenagh - Ballybrophy and Limerick Junction - Waterford lines have had CWR put in. AFAIK for many years now 40 is the highest speed you'll atain on the remaining sections of jointed track in the Republic.

 

[Andyjs247]

Some jointed track still on the Marlow branch approaching Maidenhead when I went that way a few weeks ago.

 

[Train Maniac]

Im shocked no one has mentioned the Island Line on the Isle of Wight!
Now that is fun!

 

[jimm]

Perhaps because the original poster actually asked

Does any fast running remain on jointed track?

And based on the posts since then, the answer is not much. The Island Line is not exactly noted for its speed.

 

[reddragon]

I love the continuous jointed track
noises especially with Pacers and even better when they are coupled to a 150.

I know this ain't a mainline but
The best results for continuous jointed tracks have to be on the London Underground system.
Massive fan of the LUL.

A lot of that has gone and the rest is going fast!

 

[vlad]

And based on the posts since then, the answer is not much. The Island Line is not exactly noted for its speed.

It doesn't need to be fast - it's bouncy enough!

 

[Dr_Paul]

The curve from Fulwell to Strawberry Hill is still in jointed track, and bull-head to boot, but it's only a couple of hundred yards long at the most.

 

[furnessvale]

The curve from Fulwell to Strawberry Hill is still in jointed track, and bull-head to boot, but it's only a couple of hundred yards long at the most.

There is a minimum radius beyond which you cannot use CWR. Perhaps this curve is tighter than that limit?

 

[Scotrail84]

Going up the hill from Inverness on the up line used to be jointed with unusual rail lengths. Very short rail lengths iirc. Travelled on it last December but it may have been relaid by now.

 

[Ploughman]

There is a minimum radius beyond which you cannot use CWR. Perhaps this curve is tighter than that limit?

400m is the standard minimum radius, but with Civil Engineers approval can be lower.

 

[furnessvale]

400m is the standard minimum radius, but with Civil Engineers approval can be lower.

Thanks for that. 1976 when I left the perway so the memory is fading!

 

[bramling]

A lot of that has gone and the rest is going fast!

LU has been welding its rails for years, even as far back as the 2000s there were comparatively few true sections of jointed track comprising sections of standard-length rails bolted together. However a lot of joints remain for signalling purposes - on the Jubilee and Northern there's been a continuing programme of removing surplus joints where possible since the resignalling happened.

I think the last "proper" section of jointed track on LU was the Mill Hill branch, which itself had every other joint welded. This was re-railed sometime in the summer just gone - not a full renewal, just replacement of the rails - including replacement bullhead rail where this previously existed.

Having said that, there's a section of the southbound Jubilee between Baker Street and Bond Street which has recently had track replacement, and sounds rather like it has jointed track. This could be because this section is rather curved, although it's possible it might just be the sound of welded joints amplified by the tunnel lining. Without walking the section it's hard to tell for sure!

 

[Dr_Paul]

There is a minimum radius beyond which you cannot use CWR. Perhaps this curve is tighter than that limit?

I don't think that this curve is any tighter than the Fulwell to Teddington side of the triangle. It doesn't get much use, a couple of trains in the morning, a couple more in the evening, Shepperton to Waterloo via Twickenham, as opposed to the half-hourly, all-day service via Teddington, so it's possible that the rails don't need replacing. The bay at Kingston is still in bull-head; for the last few months there have been several lengths of new bull-head rail lying in the four-foot, presumably it's cheaper and easier to replace the existing bull-head with new lengths rather than re-lay the bay in flat-bottom.

 

[Dr_Paul]

LU has been welding its rails for years, even as far back as the 2000s there were comparatively few true sections of jointed track comprising sections of standard-length rails bolted together.

That's true, although I've noticed lengths of jointed track in various places where track could be welded. Perhaps it's a long-term project to replace jointed with welded track where the latter is suitable.

I was told that there used to be some places on the Met main line where 60' bull-head rails were welded together to make reasonable lengths of non-jointed track, but I'm not sure whether that actually was the case. A 240' or 300' length of bull-head would be rather difficult to manoeuvre in and out the chairs.

 

[snookertam]

As mentioned above the West Highland Line and Far North line still have loads, as does the Dingwall to Kyle line. Although like elsewhere it is slowly being replaced.

West Highland line isn't so fast but the beat of the joints is still quite pleasurable, from memory the FNL does get quite fast but not been up there in ages - Kyle line is similar if not slower than the West Highland Line. Parts of the Kyle and Mallaig lines both have the short rails in sections as well.

I always felt it sounded better on the cl 156 than it does on the 158 though.

Speaking of which, someone took this video of the *full* journey from Queen Street to Mallaig - a good example of what were talking about is on the section from Glen Douglas to Arrochar & Tarbet - there will be others.

From memory, Girvan to Stranraer also had loads of jointed track, and the section just out of Stranraer itself sounded pretty fast on a 156. Not been there in ages though.

There's some sections on the Cathcart Circle lines as well, although far less then previously. Line speeds are only upto 40mph. Sometimes gets used for main line diverts though.

 

[DelW]

Travelling on the Heart of Wales recently, there's lots of jointed track still (although it may not meet the OP's speed criterion). In stations there's both flat bottom and bull-head, some of the latter having been spot resleepered with new chairs.
One curiosity that I noticed was that on 153s, I heard a triple beat - click/click/click (gap) click/click/click (gap) etc. I assume I was hearing both bogies, but that the wheelbase was such that one front axle and one rear axle hit successive joints at the same time.
There were also some short stretches with a much more confused sound, presumably shorter rails still.

 

[70014IronDuke]

For anyone going international, rather than just UK: if you are on a Budapest to Bratislave-Brno-Prague train, there is a substantial length of jointed track in Slovakia, between Sturovo and the Hungarian border.

 

[Barnsley]

Been on Settle JN to Carnforth today on a 144, it is entirely jointed, except for 500 yards between Giggleswick and Clapham, and about 300 yards after Clapham station towards Carnforth, in the other direction there’s only a stretch of about 700 yards between Carnforth and Wennington, it’s like being on a rollercoaster if you get a Pacer!

 

[AndrewE]

There is still a short section of jointed flat-bottom rails on timber sleepers on the Cotswold Line where trains run at 90mph and where it is still possible to ride in a coach without underfloor engines (and will continue to be so on IETs in the unmotored coaches once HSTs disappear in a few weeks' time).

It is on the down line (ie Worcester-bound) passing Evenlode, just south of Moreton-in-Marsh. It probably won't survive that much longer, as the rails have late 1950s date stamps.

It wasn't apparent today, but at least the 1221 from Paddington was an HST. It was in lovely condition internally too (even if the high-density seating and high seat backs in standard class took the gloss off it a bit and the rear half of the train - of the 2nd class anyway - had noticeable wheel flats.) The front coach where we travelled felt like being in a brand-new train.

 

[341o2]

Maybe not quite high speed, but a section of jointed track from the site of the former Lymington Junction signalbox to the platform at Brockenhurst on the Lymington branch