SWR Major Disruption 19/11

[greaterwest]

Is it a technical reason that stops front line staff accessing Tyrrell or just compnay policy? I know some software requires people to be inside a company network to run and a smartphone probably wouldn't have access. Then there is software doesn't run on smartphones or if it's a web page may not be mobile friendly or even tablet friendly.

There is no technical reason, front line staff may request their own login from control, who will usually create one for that member of staff.

 

[Aictos]

Is it a technical reason that stops front line staff accessing Tyrrell or just compnay policy? I know some software requires people to be inside a company network to run and a smartphone probably wouldn't have access. Then there is software doesn't run on smartphones or if it's a web page may not be mobile friendly or even tablet friendly.

Shouldn't be a issue, as long as you have a valid login and the application works on your device then you shouldn't have any issues for example GTR's application is available for iOS, Android and Windows.

 

[tsr]

The screenshot attached is from the web browser version of TyrellCheck, and that works on virtually any consumer device with a normal web browser.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Pure speculation, I would assume a bean counter has done the maths and it’s cheaper to take the hit for delay minutes (especially if NR are paying it) then it is to ensure all traincrew know (and importantly maintain) all diversionary routes etc.

As you say, that is pure speculation. But IF it is true (and of course that's a big IF) it would also suggest to me poorly written contracts. Intuitively. you'd think that, if NR has put the tracks out of use causing delays and cancellations, then that is clearly the fault of Network Rail and they should take the financial cost. However, if AFTER the tracks have been brought back into use, the TOC has no staff available to get the trains onto the tracks, or if there are diversionary routes available but the TOC has no drivers signed to use them, causing further delays/cancellations, then then those further delays would appear to be the fault of the TOC, and therefore the TOC ought to take the financial hit. I think that's how the contracts (morally) ought to work, but you'd need someone with much more inside knowledge to tell us whether or not that is how they actually work.

 

[LAX54]

From what I can gather, looks like the overrun was outside of Network Rail's hands, they just had to pick up the aftermath !

 

[GB]

Not one cause. A series of preventable errors.

Overnight replacement of defective rail. A normally routine possession.

Rail Replacement Vehicle runs through points in wrong direction, adding to workload.

Team stood down for around 3 hours to investigate and hold safety briefing.

Tamping after rail replacement is delayed because tamping crew are unhappy with measurements.

Meanwhile, because of the Network Rail fupp ups, SWR's depot drivers have gone off shift, so there are problems getting stock into service. Main line drivers do not have the route knowledge to get stock off depot.

Result: Meltdown.

And now I will be shot down by the wagon circlers for either not being 100% accurate with the above assessment, or for divulging embarrassing information. Or they'll just say I'm wrong, but not provide an alternative narrative.

Incidents happen, they shouldn't but when you are dealing with humans in degraded working the risk is always there. When it does happen its only right that people involved are stood down and investigations started. If that delays things so be it. It should be noted that the possession was almost back on track by midnight...the issues with the tamping crews shift hours and the issues with measurements then came about...again it is only right to correct any tamping deficiencies before opening the line....safety is the number one priority.

...and NR can not be held accountable for the training and route knowledge aspects of TOCs. The fact that there are no day shift depot drivers or that mainline drivers do not have the necessary knowledge for depot moves is entirely down to the TOC and itself shows a lack of forethought. Its not beyond the realms of possibility that something like this could happen so why do they not have contingency plans and why are they not being dragged over the coals?

 

[Bikeman78]

They will have modelled the costs of Cancelling almost every train Versus attempting to run a a service with what they have to where they can. And I suspect that as NR is swallowing the bill here, it's better not to run the risk of trains and crew in odd random places when it gets fixed because that will cost more/ not be recoverable from NR, so better to trouser the compensation and not run a service .... (am I being unfair here ?)

By the way, at 0600 the 0612 to Weymouth (the train my partner was aiming for) was still showing as "at platform" on RTT. It probably still is ! So is that stored overnight at WAT?

Even Southampton to Portsmouth was cancelled! Seems excessive.

 

[Dougal2345]

I was caught up in this - had an advance ticket for the 21:05 Waterloo-Sway.

Arrived at Waterloo about 20:15 (having travelled up from Barcelona since 09:25 local time, so rather tired).

Already knew there were problems and the 21:05 was cancelled, so headed for the ticket office, had my advance endorsed, and started looking for the first thing I could get. This was a very late running 19:35 which got me to Brockenhurst about 22:00 IIRC but was then fast to Bournemouth.

It looked as though there were no stoppers for a long while. Had a word with guard, who 'phoned control but said they wouldn't allow any additional stops as they were so late already.

So got off at Brock hopeful they might be laying on a taxi or two to replace the stoppers. But no staff, no reply from help points, and very cold! The 20:35 from Waterloo went through about 22:10, I asked the guard if she would be making any additional stops, but no.

So I gave up and got a taxi. I think the final train to Sway (22:05 from Waterloo) did stop there very late at about 00:30 though, but probably £10 for the taxi was better than spending 2 hours freezing on the platform at Brock.

Delay Repay claim in of course (I've attached the taxi receipt too, but don't know if they will take any notice of that.) The only slightly vexing part of the story was that when they were running two fasts (19:35 and 20:35) within about 10 minutes of each other, and no stoppers, it might have been nice if the second had had extra stops added.

(and that after travelling well over 1000km by train in a day, it's the last few miles that caused all the problems)

 

[Bikeman78]

It's not on my driving patch, but this 'let's just give up' attitude and run no service when things go wrong is becoming increasingly common and is unacceptable.

A lot of people within NR and TOC's are paid lots of money to come up with contingency plans and manage disruption. They are failing miserably. If those of us on the front line did our jobs as badly as they do theirs we would be off the road and out of a job pretty quickly.

What will come out of it ? 'we've held another lessons learned meeting'. Where the lessons clearly don't get learned.

People have had enough and we need to start hoisting that onboard and doing better. Whatever the disruption and cause the aim should be to start moving as many people as possible over as much of the network as possible. If that causes stock and crew displacement so be it, but at least your trying to run a service and people will be understanding of some further disruption ongoing until later in the day due to displacement.

Well said. I've had a nose through realtime trains. Even trains out of Weymouth were cancelled. They could have run to Southampton or Winchester.

 

[HowardGWR]

Would it be fair to suggest that when the line is totally blocked at 'X' that there is a shuttle timetable that can take over to preserve stock (and staff) placements?

Two examples of possible approaches:
1. during the Saturday strikes by guards, a timetable has run which is in chunks - so Weymouth to Bournemouth, Bournemouth to Sothampton, and so on with more stops.
2. Short running. I pointed out previously that the SN service Victoria to Southampton, is frequently held back at Fareham (or even as far back as Barnham of Horsham) depending where the calamity strikes. It then picks up the time of the returning service.

As John_Clausen says above, at least intermediate pax are getting a service and other connections and 'work arounds' (e.g. Basingstoke to Reading if the Waterloo line is down) present themselves.

 

[infobleep]

I used to work for swr and the tyrell page needs a log in and password so I assume most don't know it but it is a very handy tool to use. But to be fair it does share the same information you can find on journey updates on the swr website (such as cancellations, alterations and status update however on tyrell there's just sometimes a bit more internal information that they don't put on swr website). I've uploaded a picture of the tyrell website for anyone who wanted to see.

Cheers for that. Wondered what Tyrrell looked like. I see it even tells you how many buses ordered.

Now I'm fairly certain that is something that isn't public knowledge during disruption. Perhaps it's felt passengers don't need to know such things.

I don't know if it's of use to passengers know this info. I rarely get the chance to use emergency rail replacement buses. Usually what happens is they are running them but not to the station I wish to go to. I'm tall about during emergency disruption here.

This means there are alternative train routes but those are not always publicised during such disruption. If you ask staff they will probably advise though.

 

[infobleep]

I was caught up in this - had an advance ticket for the 21:05 Waterloo-Sway.

Arrived at Waterloo about 20:15 (having travelled up from Barcelona since 09:25 local time, so rather tired).

Already knew there were problems and the 21:05 was cancelled, so headed for the ticket office, had my advance endorsed, and started looking for the first thing I could get. This was a very late running 19:35 which got me to Brockenhurst about 22:00 IIRC but was then fast to Bournemouth.

It looked as though there were no stoppers for a long while. Had a word with guard, who 'phoned control but said they wouldn't allow any additional stops as they were so late already.

So got off at Brock hopeful they might be laying on a taxi or two to replace the stoppers. But no staff, no reply from help points, and very cold! The 20:35 from Waterloo went through about 22:10, I asked the guard if she would be making any additional stops, but no.

So I gave up and got a taxi. I think the final train to Sway (22:05 from Waterloo) did stop there very late at about 00:30 though, but probably £10 for the taxi was better than spending 2 hours freezing on the platform at Brock.

Delay Repay claim in of course (I've attached the taxi receipt too, but don't know if they will take any notice of that.) The only slightly vexing part of the story was that when they were running two fasts (19:35 and 20:35) within about 10 minutes of each other, and no stoppers, it might have been nice if the second had had extra stops added.

(and that after travelling well over 1000km by train in a day, it's the last few miles that caused all the problems)

That isn't the first time I've ce across people stranded late at night.

Also when there is disruption late at night no one seems to ever answer the help point. I appricate they may be very busy but there is no notice anywhere stating that during times of disruption. The help point may not get answered.

I appreciate that is a nagative statement but if it's true it's helpful for people to know this.

I was stuck at Gatwick yesterday for 53 minutes due to delays, cancellations, short terminations and control not wanting to put in stop orders to faster trains. This was to a destination that should have 6 trains an hour!

I don't think I've ever been lucky to have a stop order or slight delay to a train arrange. By slight delay I mean to one that is starting short at a different station and only runs every hour. Either I'm just unlucky or they are not arranged that often.

 

[GodAtum]

Unfortunaltely there seem to be a vociferous few on here who cannot recognise that, go over the top, throw insults willy-nilly and even go as far as threatening Police or legal action. I note that the latter it is never stated under what legislation they would do that.

I guess loss of earnings, causing distress etc?

 

[bnm]

Unfortunaltely there seem to be a vociferous few on here who cannot recognise that, go over the top, throw insults willy-nilly

Not wrong there. I note your current forum status.

 

[gazr]

With regards to the freight train that blocked the line at Haydons Road; is there no way the loco could have run-round in the loop between Wimbledon station and Wimbledon West Junction and return to Acton Yard? All service trains are currently using the Up St. Helier (which is unusual), so does this mean the Down line is OOU now?

Edit: Or was it a case of Wimbledon didn't want crush loads on Thameslink (seeing as this would have happened for sure), and the freight train was a good excuse to pile everything on to TfL!).