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Is it time to introduce road pricing?

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TheWalrus

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I would agree that removing parking is very effective at reducing car use but need to reduce private non-residential parking as well. Can be done by workplace parking levy and requiring all parking to be charged for. But would not advocate park and ride, evidence suggests they just lead to people driving further into towns where before they would have used buses/trains from further out of the town/city.
What this would cause is more cars parked on roads and in residential areas, so we would lose car parking revenue and residents would struggle to park where they live. My road is already a nightmare to park on due to the amount of vehicles parked on it.

Maybe keep the parking spaces in the centre but increase the price. In residential areas make them resident permits only but if there are more than one car per household, increase the price for each car?
 
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Maybe keep the parking spaces in the centre but increase the price. In residential areas make them resident permits only but if there are more than one car per household, increase the price for each car?
The problem with residents parking is when only applied to one area the cars just park in the neighbouring areas causing their to be less space there. If applied to the whole city where do people visiting park?
 

deltic

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The problem with residents parking is when only applied to one area the cars just park in the neighbouring areas causing their to be less space there. If applied to the whole city where do people visiting park?
They pay to park ideally off street. Roads were built to travel on not park upon.
 

deltic

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What this would cause is more cars parked on roads and in residential areas, so we would lose car parking revenue and residents would struggle to park where they live. My road is already a nightmare to park on due to the amount of vehicles parked on it.

Maybe keep the parking spaces in the centre but increase the price. In residential areas make them resident permits only but if there are more than one car per household, increase the price for each car?
What would happen if you could only own a car if you had an off street parking space? Japanese cities tend not to allow on street parking as houses were built of wood and fire service access was vital. Towing trucks patrol at night and any cars parked are rapidly removed - end up with tiny car parks with sensors which can detect whether space is free or not and of course is charged for. Hong Kong has a vibrant car parking space estate agencies with people buying and selling just as they do a house - that’s the mentality we need to adopt not this idea we can dump our one tonne of metal in any old public space,
 

TheWalrus

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The problem with residents parking is when only applied to one area the cars just park in the neighbouring areas causing their to be less space there. If applied to the whole city where do people visiting park?
Park & Ride sites or Pay and Display car parks.
 

Indigo Soup

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What about people visiting the residents? Typically there are not P&D car parks in residential areas.
If a system whereby cars had to be parked off road, either car parks would be created (whether by the local authority, or by someone seeing a niche) or the residents would be expected to have sufficient parking on their property for any visitors.
 

Bletchleyite

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If a system whereby cars had to be parked off road, either car parks would be created (whether by the local authority, or by someone seeing a niche) or the residents would be expected to have sufficient parking on their property for any visitors.

Agreed. But that's not the same as allocating parking on streets for residents, which is not something I support in any form; if you want your own guaranteed parking space, buy or rent a property with one or buy or rent a space, and if that isn't possible in your location move somewhere else.
 

Indigo Soup

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Agreed. But that's not the same as allocating parking on streets for residents, which is not something I support in any form; if you want your own guaranteed parking space, buy or rent a property with one or buy or rent a space, and if that isn't possible in your location move somewhere else.
It's not unsolvable with permits for on-street parking - you have (say) ten spaces for eight houses, each house gets a residents' permit and the other two spaces are available for visitors, potentially on a pay-and-display basis or otherwise. My area - which is residents' parking only about once a month - makes permits for visitors available to residents at an additional cost.

This isn't quite the same as permanently allocated spaces, though, which is ludicrous for on-street parking.
 

AM9

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... This isn't quite the same as permanently allocated spaces, though, which is ludicrous for on-street parking.

With the exception of reserved places for drivers who are registered as disabled in their own right.
 

edwin_m

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With the exception of reserved places for drivers who are registered as disabled in their own right.
What about people who regularly drive a disabled person - the criterion for a blue badge? Where do you draw the line?
 

dcbwhaley

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VED has no real effect on this. Nobody avoids buying a car because of VED. You either need one or you don't.

Graduated VED has an impact on *what* cars people buy (i.e. encourages low emissions), but so would applying that via road pricing.

FWIW, I wouldn't get too up tight about parking reducing village roads to one way - the effect that has is of natural chicanes which is a very effective form of traffic calming and one that unlike deliberately installed traffic calming doesn't irritate people (and of course costs nowt).


If it was just chicanes.... But it is often a hundred meters of uncontrolled alternate way working. Part of the problem is the increased width of modern vehicles, especially the invisible side extensions which prevent them coming within a foot of other vehicles.

Of course it mucking well irritates people. Especially the poor chap who has just had a heart attack and can't get prompt treatment because the ambulance is trapped in the traffic. And there is a cost associated with the accidents caused.
 

Bletchleyite

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With the exception of reserved places for drivers who are registered as disabled in their own right.

Those are not reserved for an individual, though usually there is only one individual likely to want to use them where they're outside a house. They are available to any blue badge holder.
 

Bletchleyite

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If it was just chicanes.... But it is often a hundred meters of uncontrolled alternate way working. Part of the problem is the increased width of modern vehicles, especially the invisible side extensions which prevent them coming within a foot of other vehicles.

In new estates designing the road layout to control where it goes (with marked bays and double yellows) is a good way to use it to that end.

In traditional terraced areas, one way streets and marked herringbone bays are a good idea - always surprised me you don't see it more.
 

dcbwhaley

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I would suggest a charging system where owners are charged by the time that their vehicle is on the road rather than by the distance travelled
 

Indigo Soup

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With the exception of reserved places for drivers who are registered as disabled in their own right.
That's merely bad, rather than terrible. I can understand why it's desirable, but it should only be adopted where a solution that doesn't obstruct traffic isn't possible.
I would suggest a charging system where owners are charged by the time that their vehicle is on the road rather than by the distance travelled
Actually not a bad idea, though I'm not sure how you'd police it for vehicles that spend some or all of their time off the public roads. Granted my straight mileage scheme has the same problem, but probably to a much smaller degree.
 

AM9

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That's merely bad, rather than terrible. I can understand why it's desirable, but it should only be adopted where a solution that doesn't obstruct traffic isn't possible. ...
I fail tyo see why it is 'bad'. Given that registered disabled drivers are in a distinct minority, allowing them to park their only means of unassisted transport in places that they can actually get to is unlikely to create any significant obstruction. In the few places that it does reduce the speed of able-bodied road users, they will just have to accept that is a price to pay for the benefit of others less fortunate than themselves.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Those are not reserved for an individual, though usually there is only one individual likely to want to use them where they're outside a house. They are available to any blue badge holder.

Unless there is a sign restricting a disabled bay to the disabled, there is no TRO ( traffic regulation order ) on them and they are advisory only. Most domestic disabled bays - the ones painted outside blue badge holders houses - fall into this category. Bays which are restricted tend to be those in car parks.

We had a bay outside our house for 12 years when my wife* had a badge ( until Surrey County Council decided to axe discretionary badges recently ) and at no time was there ever a TRO on it and no way of preventing anyone at all from parking there. In practice, 99% of the time, people did respect it but there was nothing we could do if anyone else at all decided to park there.


*Partly sighted, epileptic and a learning difficulty...
 

AM9

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Unless there is a sign restricting a disabled bay to the disabled, there is no TRO ( traffic regulation order ) on them and they are advisory only. Most domestic disabled bays - the ones painted outside blue badge holders houses - fall into this category. Bays which are restricted tend to be those in car parks.

We had a bay outside our house for 12 years when my wife* had a badge ( until Surrey County Council decided to axe discretionary badges recently ) and at no time was there ever a TRO on it and no way of preventing anyone at all from parking there. In practice, 99% of the time, people did respect it but there was nothing we could do if anyone else at all decided to park there.


*Partly sighted, epileptic and a learning difficulty...
It wouldn't be impossible to make unauthorised parking in them illegal if the will was there.
 

Peter Mugridge

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It wouldn't be impossible to make unauthorised parking in them illegal if the will was there.

True, but it would - according to Surrey County Council - require an Act of Parliament to enable it because as things stand it is not permitted to reserve part of the public highway for an individual user... that was what they told us when we asked if a TRO was possible on the bay anyway...
 

Bletchleyite

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True, but it would - according to Surrey County Council - require an Act of Parliament to enable it because as things stand it is not permitted to reserve part of the public highway for an individual user... that was what they told us when we asked if a TRO was possible on the bay anyway...

Except it isn't for an individual user, it is for any Blue Badge holder.
 

AM9

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Except it isn't for an individual user, it is for any Blue Badge holder.
... and apart from this administration's paralysis whilst staring into the headlights of approaching EU chaos, passing an act of parliament that isn't that controversial isn't that difficult.
 

Bletchleyite

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... and apart from this administration's paralysis whilst staring into the headlights of approaching EU chaos, passing an act of parliament that isn't that controversial isn't that difficult.

Indeed. I really can't see an Act of Parliament allowing the creation and enforcement of Blue Badge spaces on the public highway to be in the remotest bit controversial. A good one for Friday afternoon :)
 

Peter Mugridge

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My point was that they can introduce enforceable parking for a specific class of people (Permit Holders) so why not another (Blue Badge holders)?

SCC stated that even if they introduced a resident parking scheme in the road, the disabled bays would still be fully open to anyone with a resident perking permit. They could have done the former - a residents' scheme - if the residents voted for it, but not the latter. Something to do with the way the legislation is drafted, apparently. Don't ask me what...
 
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