EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Class37.4]

You need to qualify the freedom of movement you’re talking about here as being completely different to the universal freedom of movement currently in place in the EU.

Indeed, so the chances of me simply hoping on plane with an automatic right to stay and work in America ain’t going to happen is it!

In the unlikely event it did ever happen you might find a greater flow out of the UK than in, same with Australia and New Zealand.

 

[nidave]

You need to qualify the freedom of movement you’re talking about here as being completely different to the universal freedom of movement currently in place in the EU.

Its been mentioned a number of times by me with links to everyone's favorite "the Express"
Are you trying to redefine freedom of movement? Like wot we currently have with the EU.

"Theresa May and Donald Trump will this week hold talks over a US-UK trade deal that slashes tariffs and makes it easier for hundreds of thousands of workers to move between the two countries."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ald-trump-hold-talks-trade-deal-cuts-tariffs/​

 

[Class37.4]

Its been mentioned a number of times by me with links to everyone's favorite "the Express"
Are you trying to redefine freedom of movement? Like wot we currently have with the EU.

"Theresa May and Donald Trump will this week hold talks over a US-UK trade deal that slashes tariffs and makes it easier for hundreds of thousands of workers to move between the two countries."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ald-trump-hold-talks-trade-deal-cuts-tariffs/​

Well of course everything in the newspapers is true isn’t it? Yes that might make it a bit easier you can be sure it will be nothing like EU freedom of movement.

Mind if we still have freedom of movement when the Marxist party get in that my be a blessing, when the economy turns to s*** and all the refugees at Calais will brits trying to get out of the uk

 

[AlterEgo]

Its been mentioned a number of times by me with links to everyone's favorite "the Express"
Are you trying to redefine freedom of movement? Like wot we currently have with the EU.

"Theresa May and Donald Trump will this week hold talks over a US-UK trade deal that slashes tariffs and makes it easier for hundreds of thousands of workers to move between the two countries."


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ald-trump-hold-talks-trade-deal-cuts-tariffs/​

As your source explicitly states, this is the freedom of movement of workers.

It’s not absolute freedom of movement currently in the EU.

It’s an important distinction to point out, and deceptive not to do so if you know the difference.

 

[furnessvale]

You need to qualify the freedom of movement you’re talking about here as being completely different to the universal freedom of movement currently in place in the EU.

Correct. I very much doubt the USA wants total freedom of movement as practiced by the EU. I also think in the case of India, they have talked about a better visa system rather than fully unrestricted access.

 

[507021]

Mind if we still have freedom of movement when the Marxist party get in that my be a blessing, when the economy turns to s*** and all the refugees at Calais will brits trying to get out of the uk

What's the Marxist Party?

 

[Class37.4]

What's the Marxist Party?

I would have thought that was fairly obvious, what used to be the Labour Party until Comrade Corbyn and Marxist Mcdonell became Leader and Shadow Chancellor.

 

[EM2]

I would have thought that was fairly obvious, what used to be the Labour Party unto Comrade Corbyn and Marxist Mcdonell Became leader and shadow chanceller.

The one that's still called the Labour Party, you mean?

 

[Class37.4]

The one that's still called the Labour Party, you mean?

Not in my eyes it isn’t, Which is why I don’t refer to them as the Labour Party anymore, however I won’t dwell on it as this about the EU and not what you call the Labour Party.

 

[507021]

I would have thought that was fairly obvious, what used to be the Labour Party until Comrade Corbyn and Marxist Mcdonell became Leader and Shadow Chancellor.

It's still called the Labour Party last time I checked.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Indeed I’m a remainer who would now vote leave.

Reasons

I'm struggling with your logic a little with this, so please help me understand.

1. We had a vote and I get fed up of people who dont like the result and want to change it, also like the SNP.

You want to change your mind to support the other side, because the people you supported are not happy because they didn't carry the vote and have protested?

2. Job losses well there were always going to be job losses and anybody who thinks otherwise is an idiot, the main reason I voted remain in the first place. However I suspect a lot of the jobs we were always going to loose have already gone, EU agencies, Banking etc.

You knew that Brexit would cause job losses, now you want to change your vote despite those losses?

3. A straight trade deal should be possible with the EU but yes Northern Ireland is a big spanner in that, and yes that may cost more jobs but certainly nothing like no deal, and is essentially the price of brexit. Of course the biggest problem are the Tory right wing nutters who would be quite happy with no deal rather than the EU in my view.

There doesn't seem to be any point to this one, other than stating that "Tory right-wing nutters" would be happy with no deal, I can't disagree with that sentiment.

4. Although I voted remain never been a fan of the Brussels machine and closer integration which frankly the people didn’t have much say on until the EU vote.

You're not a fan of Brussels, you voted to stay, why now change your mind?

5. Immigration I do think we should have immigration controls, people are fed up in some areas of being overwhelmed by people of a different cultures and yes that also applies to non EU immigration

You don't want immigration. You'll see a lot more immigration from outside the EU and people with very different cultures if we want ti trade with those countries - see the conditions on the table with India.

6. Freedom of movement was ok when the EU countries had largely similar economies but when they don’t you get disproportionate movement, and even without that I’m sure there are plenty of Spanish people who resent the number of British and other EU nationalities living in Spain, even if it substantially helped the Spanish economy.

You're changing your vote to leave to help the Spanish remove the English from their settled life in Spain?

 

[Class37.4]

I'm struggling with your logic a little with this, so please help me understand.

1. We had a vote and I get fed up of people who dont like the result and want to change it, also like the SNP.

You want to change your mind to support the other side, because the people you supported are not happy because they didn't carry the vote and have protested?

2. Job losses well there were always going to be job losses and anybody who thinks otherwise is an idiot, the main reason I voted remain in the first place. However I suspect a lot of the jobs we were always going to loose have already gone, EU agencies, Banking etc.

You knew that Brexit would cause job losses, now you want to change your vote despite those losses?

3. A straight trade deal should be possible with the EU but yes Northern Ireland is a big spanner in that, and yes that may cost more jobs but certainly nothing like no deal, and is essentially the price of brexit. Of course the biggest problem are the Tory right wing nutters who would be quite happy with no deal rather than the EU in my view.

There doesn't seem to be any point to this one, other than stating that "Tory right-wing nutters" would be happy with no deal, I can't disagree with that sentiment.

4. Although I voted remain never been a fan of the Brussels machine and closer integration which frankly the people didn’t have much say on until the EU vote.

You're not a fan of Brussels, you voted to stay, why now change your mind?

5. Immigration I do think we should have immigration controls, people are fed up in some areas of being overwhelmed by people of a different cultures and yes that also applies to non EU immigration

You don't want immigration. You'll see a lot more immigration from outside the EU and people with very different cultures if we want ti trade with those countries - see the conditions on the table with India.

6. Freedom of movement was ok when the EU countries had largely similar economies but when they don’t you get disproportionate movement, and even without that I’m sure there are plenty of Spanish people who resent the number of British and other EU nationalities living in Spain, even if it substantially helped the Spanish economy.

You're changing your vote to leave to help the Spanish remove the English from their settled life in Spain?

I don’t really see why my logic is difficult to understand. We had a vote and voted to leave. That’s pretty straightforward.

On a more personal level I was a reluctant remainer, I don’t like Brussels, further integration or freedom of movement. My comment about the Spanish was a reference that I suspect the people in many other EU countries don’t like it either, and were the people in many EU countries given a choice on this, No. If we take Switzerland although they are not in the EU they are supposed to accept freedom of movement as part of their EU agreement, however in a vote a few years ago the Swiss people voted against it, although the Swiss government only made minor changes so as not to upset the EU.

But despite that I voted remain because I was concerned about jobs and the impact on the economy. Now obviously it will still depend on what deal we get with the EU if any but I’m more convinced now that the UK economy will do ok outside the EU and as I have already said some of the jobs we are loosing because of brexit have already gone and your unlikely to change that whatever happens.

Therefore taking all of the above into account now my choice should be vote leave.

Now the comment that immigration will still be significant even without EU freedom of movement I will agree that is likely to be true because non of our previous governments have brought it down to a level I suspect the majority of the native population would like but at least there is some option for it to be controlled by the UK. Of couse if Corbyn and Abbot get in, they don’t really believe in any immigration controls which I would find somwhat ironic for a country that voted Brexit.

 

[Puffing Devil]

But despite that I voted remain because I was concerned about jobs and the impact on the economy. Now obviously it will still depend on what deal we get with the EU if any but I’m more convinced now that the UK economy will do ok outside the EU and as I have already said some of the jobs we are loosing because of brexit have already gone and your unlikely to change that whatever happens.

Other than to stay in?

 

[Puffing Devil]

More project fear REALITY

A consolidated list, first published via twitter of 40, real hits to British Business happening now because of Brexit.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1061802399856291840.html

Does anyone still think this a good idea?

 

[thejuggler]

41. A medical insurance company I deal with are moving their HQ to France.

 

[Mag_seven]

Does anyone still think this a good idea?

Yes because my passport will be blue....

 

[Ianno87]

Yes because my passport will be blue....

You're also forgetting the commemorative Brexit 50p.

 

[AM9]

You're also forgetting the commemorative Brexit 50p.

And the brand new British GPS system to replace the EU Galileo facility that we have contributed to. Might cost about £5BN though.

 

[Senex]

And the brand new British GPS system to replace the EU Galileo facility that we have contributed to. Might cost about £5BN though.

But that's only a relatively few years of the £350M a year (that was going to go to the NHS). Well worth it to take back control, isn't it?

 

[EM2]

Here we go!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46188790

UK and EU officials have agreed the draft text of a Brexit agreement in a significant breakthrough for the talks.

A cabinet source told the BBC that the document has been agreed at a technical level by officials from both sides after intensive talks this week.

A special cabinet meeting will be held at 14.00 GMT on Wednesday as Theresa May seeks ministers' backing.

Every minister is being asked to see the prime minister for one-to-one talks on Tuesday evening.

The future of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland has been the last major outstanding issue to be settled amid disagreements over how to avoid physical checks until a future trade relationship is in place.

Cabinet ministers were briefed on the state of the negotiations earlier on Tuesday, when they were told a "small number of outstanding issues" remained to be sorted.

The BBC's chief political correspondent Vicki Young said individual cabinet ministers were likely to be shown the full draft text this evening as a prelude to a full meeting on Wednesday afternoon.

She said they would have to decide whether they could support it, and if not, whether to resign from cabinet.

In another development, ambassadors from the remaining 27 EU states will meet in Brussels on Wednesday.

The prime minister has been under pressure from both Brexiteers and pro-EU MPs as she tries to seal a deal with the EU on the terms for the UK's exit on 29 March 2019.

There's more at the link.

 

[EM2]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...esa-may-as-divorce-deal-reached-a3989256.html

Brexiteer MPs Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg have said they will vote down Theresa May’s divorce deal after negotiators reached an agreement in Brussels.

A government source confirmed a Brexit agreement was reached between the UK and EU at a "technical level" today.

The prime minister will attempt to win over her cabinet in a meeting tomorrow before a "meaningful" vote in the House of Commons.

Former foreign secretary Mr Johnson said he would vote against the deal, claiming it was "vassal state stuff" and urged the cabinet to "chuck it out".

He said he expected the deal to be "pretty much" what had been agreed a few weeks ago.

"We are going to stay in the customs union on this deal, we are going to stay effectively in large parts of the single market and that means it's vassal state stuff," he told the BBC.

He added: "For the first time in a thousand years, this place, this parliament, will not have a say over the laws that govern this country. It is a quite incredible state of affairs."

Mr Johnson added: "For the first time since partition, Dublin - under these proposals - would have more say in some aspects of the government of Northern Ireland than London.

"I don't see how you can support it from a democratic point of view, I don't see how unionists can support it, and I don't see how you can support it if you believe in the economic and political freedom of this country."

He claimed the deal was "making a nonsense of Brexit so I hope the cabinet will do the right thing and I hope they chuck it out".

Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the pro-Brexit European Research Group of Tory MPs, said the reported deal represented a betrayal of Mrs May's promise to maintain the integrity of the UK.

"White flags have gone up all over Whitehall. It is a betrayal of the Union," he told the BBC.

"If what we have heard is true, this fails to meet the Conservative Party manifesto and it fails to meet many of the commitments that the Prime Minister makes.

"It would keep us in the customs union and de facto the single market. This is the vassal state.

"It is a failure of the government's negotiating position, it is a failure to deliver on Brexit and it is potentially dividing up the United Kingdom.

"It is very hard to see any reason why the cabinet should support Northern Ireland being ruled from Dublin."

Meanwhile DUP Brexit spokesman Sammy Wilson - whose party props up the government in the Commons - warned the prime minister she must honour the promises she had made to maintain the integrity of the the Union.

"These are promises which she made because she recognised that the integrity of the United Kingdom was important. She has made them time and time in the House and to us privately and to the public," he told the BBC.

The part that I've bolded is interesting.
So is Boris saying that for a thousand years that Parliament has been sovereign? Hmmm...

 

[nlogax]

Fasten your safety belts. This Brexit referendum ride is about to get ridiculously turbulent...there'll be casualties along the way, possibly including the captain.

 

[birchesgreen]

Today could be a very strange day, literally anything might happen including a prime minister resignation or nothing. We are definitely through the looking glass now.

 

[NSEFAN]

And the brand new British GPS system to replace the EU Galileo facility that we have contributed to. Might cost about £5BN though.

To be fair, if it is built and maintained by British companies and people, then it creates British jobs and highly-paid British taxpayers.

On the other hand, it could also be outsourced to other countries. The government doesn't seem to understand the difference between "lowest price" and "best value"...

 

[thejuggler]

The news coverage is pathetic. Newsnight last night and Breakfast at the moment, lots of talking heads, none of them having seen any of the 500 pages, but all agreeing its a bad deal.

Andrew Bridgen in particular is odious.

 

[Esker-pades]

This is why I listen to the BBC World Service.

 

[Senex]

Did anyone else hear the R4 Today programme between 7 and 8? Sir Geoffrey Donaldson was allowed to get away with saying that the British public voted "overwhelmingly" for Brexit even though the majority in favour was actually very small and his own Northern Ireland voted against? And then later on Rebecca Long-Bailey in a lengthy interview was continuously pressed to agree that Labour should accept May's deal. Her thoroughly evasive performance, failing to answer any questions directly, was pretty abysmal (though standard for today's Opposition front bench), but at least she managed to avoid being trapped into saying what the interviewer clearly wanted her to say.

 

[birchesgreen]

They lie all the time and arn't stopped by the BBC, the naked bias is disgusting.

 

[nidave]

He added: "For the first time in a thousand years, this place, this parliament, will not have a say over the laws that govern this country. It is a quite incredible state of affairs."

So another lie told to us about the eu (we had no control over anything) debunked from the horses mouth. We always had control so what's brexit going to achieve????

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Driven to not listening anymore to BBC R4 - absolutely sick of it .........speculation and bias over something they have not seen the facts of yet.