Some Sleeper Questions

[JamesM]

Hi guys,

I had a trip on the sleeper recently and enjoyed it - despite problems sleeping because of all the rattling.

Thought I might ask some questions, purely out of interest, and see if anyone knew the answers.

- I was on the Sunday night one (8th) - London to Inverness. I was very surprised to see us go through the centre of Manchester (actually chugging through Platform 14 of Man Picc). Presumably this was a re-route because of engineering works?

- What shift patterns do the crew work - it seems they stay for the whole journey - do they get breaks? Do they change at say, Preston?

- How does the 'split' work and where does it happen? As far as I could see it occured near Edinburgh on the way up. Is there another locomotive up near Edinburgh to take the middle portion away?

- We only had one lounge car going up, in the Aberdeen section, but coming back the Inverness train had a lounge car - so presumably when they joined us all up, we ended up with three on the way back!? Don't really understand that.

- How many people use it on an average night? There appear to be maybe 100 beds altogether for each section.

- Is it profitable?

- If you book a standard ticket, what is the likelihood that you will have to share? Say the service was less than half full, would they give everyone their own berth, regardless of whether they have paid a supplement or are in first or would they still force people to share as a way of maximising revenue (ie getting more single supplements out of people).

Lots of questions! Thought someone on here might have some of the answers!

Best Wishes,

James

 

[Aictos]

Well from what I saw at Carstairs when I used the 2340 ex Edinburgh to Euston on Monday, where we were hauled though Carstairs stopping just past the platform when the Glasgow portion came past us then the shunter coupled the two sets togethers and off we went, I can only guess the 90 which took the Edinburgh portion there came off at Carstairs.

As far as splitting is concerned, the Lowland Sleeper which is the one I've used twice now is for Edinburgh and Glasgow which joins at Carstairs, the Highland Sleeper is for Aberdeen, Inverness and Fort William joins together at Edinburgh.

There's a 50/50 chance of having to share a berth with someone else on a standard ticket, I do suggest paying the extra cost and going first class as you have a berth all to yourself,

As to the question about it being profitable, believe me if it wasn't then National Express or recently First would have axed the service, they haven't which goes to show it is profitable.

 

[FLHH East Anglia]

did'nt think they could axe it,been tried before,still running though

 

[DaveNewcastle]

There has been a lot of info about the sleeper on other recent threads. And a lot of comment and opinion which you might find useful. Try this one:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=27125

And for details about the splitting:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=25497

Hope that helps.
PS its not operated by National Express! Its First Scot Rail and I understand that it is subsidised.

 

[djw1981]

The Fort WIlliam Lounge Cra gets left at Edinburgh by the southbound sleeper and collected by the North Bound.

 

[Aictos]

PS its not operated by National Express! Its First Scot Rail and I understand that it is subsidised.

I know that, I was referring to when National Express were running the ScotRail franchise before losing it to First and that they could have decided it wasn't worth keeping.

I'm glad though that, this wasn't the case.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I'm glad though that, this wasn't the case.

Agreed!
Tho' in the light of today's EastCoast changes, its interesting to speculate whether there might have been intervention by gov't at that time (if NX wished to drop the service).

 

[Bittern]

What times (on the London - Scotland journeys) does the Highland Sleeper(s) arrive at Edinburgh for the split and what time does the lowland sleepers from England arrive at Carstairs to split?

 

[MCR247]

Edinburgh around 4am - 4.30am IIRC

 

[mrcheek]

Im sure I remember there being plans to drop the Fort William portion of the sleeper, until there was uproar - UPROAR! - from MPs who used to use it to go on hunting and fishing trips.

 

[djw1981]

Plus of course it allowed some Scottish MP's to leave their family Sunday night at kids bedtimes, and be in London for start of working day on Monday, then leave after Commons Business on Thursday and be back in Constuituency for Friday morning. For those outside the big cities that just isn;t possible by plane.

 

[kkong]

I know that, I was referring to when National Express were running the ScotRail franchise before losing it to First and that they could have decided it wasn't worth keeping.

I'm glad though that, this wasn't the case.

Franchisees can't decide what services they want to run or not.

Sleepers are required in the current ScotRail franchise, which runs until November 2014.

It is a decision for the Scottish Ministers to make as regards any changes to the sevices being run.

 

[spoony]

My girlfriends uncle who is MP for Blaydon has used the sleeper to get to Parliment from the North East before. I used the sleeper last friday from Edinburgh, and was surprised when when stopped at Carstairs last week then returned from the way we arrived. Im not sure if we went down by the east or west coast, although Im sure its scheduled to stop at Carlisle? although if no one was schedualed to board is it possible it would travel via an alternative route? At Euston there was another sleeper just arriving about 8am. Can anyone shed any light? By the way, we managed to get allocated the disabled bay which meant plenty of room Even if you dont manage to sleep because of the rattling, at least you go to bed in your pjamas and your body has at least rested on the journey.

 

[djw1981]

WCML closed last weekend IIRC, so diverted via ECML? In the past, the Glasgow portion has joined to Edinburgh portion in Waverley, and certainly Northbound, they leave the Edin portion and the Glasgow portion continues via Carstairs.

The other arrival will be the Fort William/Inverness/Aberdeen sleeper.

 

[EltonRoad]

- I was on the Sunday night one (8th) - London to Inverness. I was very surprised to see us go through the centre of Manchester (actually chugging through Platform 14 of Man Picc). Presumably this was a re-route because of engineering works?

Yes, normally it's London - Crewe - Preston direct. You can sometimes tell if it's being diverted by checking to see what time it leaves London. Diverted = earlier departure.

- What shift patterns do the crew work - it seems they stay for the whole journey - do they get breaks? Do they change at say, Preston?

I've used the Fort William portion quite a lot, and every time I've used it the same berth attendant has stayed on for the entire journey. Not sure about the lounge car attendant or guard though.

- How does the 'split' work and where does it happen? As far as I could see it occured near Edinburgh on the way up. Is there another locomotive up near Edinburgh to take the middle portion away?

At Edinburgh it reverses and splits into three - rear seated coach, lounge car and six sleepers go to Inverness, then seated coach, lounge and four sleepers to Aberdeen, then the front two sleepers get combined with a seated coach and lounge car and go to Fort William. The Fort William lounge car and seated coach get taken off at Edinburgh when going south and wait for the northbound sleeper before going back north again.

- We only had one lounge car going up, in the Aberdeen section, but coming back the Inverness train had a lounge car - so presumably when they joined us all up, we ended up with three on the way back!? Don't really understand that.

There are normally two lounge cars per 16-coach train. Are you sure there was only one? Maybe one was out for maintenance?

- How many people use it on an average night? There appear to be maybe 100 beds altogether for each section.

There are 12 berths per coach. If two coaches are First Class that would make 120 beds in the Inverness portion. 36 in the Fort William portion. When I went to Fort William a few weeks ago the First Class coach was full northbound, and the entire train was sold out southbound (meaning I had to take a Sprinter to Glasgow then the sleeper to London).

- Is it profitable?

Don't know, but pretty sure the Sleepers in their current form are a franchise specification and are thus protected until about 2014.

- If you book a standard ticket, what is the likelihood that you will have to share? Say the service was less than half full, would they give everyone their own berth, regardless of whether they have paid a supplement or are in first or would they still force people to share as a way of maximising revenue (ie getting more single supplements out of people).

I would never risk sharing a berth! In the same way I wouldn't share a hotel bedroom.

One more random fact: on some summer Fridays the northbound Fort William portion has three sleeper coaches, taking one from the Aberdeen portion. It returns as three coaches on the Sunday night.

In response to spoony, the lowland sleeper has portions from Glasgow and Edinburgh which combine at Carstairs. Carstairs is situated on a triangle, such that trains from Edinburgh can either avoid the station, or by traversing the other side of the triangle can call at Carstairs but then have to reverse to go down the WCML. It is scheduled to pick up at Carlisle. The Sleeper arriving at 8 (actually 7.48 ) is the Highland Sleeper.

 

[spoony]

Just remembered there were some spotters on the platform at Euston when we departed all bleary eyed. One must have been caught short and went aboard and had a sly look around then went to the loo. Cheeky chappy