EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[northwichcat]

Even the remoaners don't want to work or live in Europe!

Well 1 million working age people is small compared to the number of voted remain but unless Brexit will create 1 million jobs for British workers, which aren't just seasonal low skilled work, then we have a huge problem to resolve. Britain certainly can't afford 1 million people going on to out-of-work benefits. Maybe 'remoaners' have the ability to think what is best for everyone rather than just what is best for me and screw the rest.

 

[birchesgreen]

What's this scaremongering about? Think positive, we can have south African fruit. Brazilian beef, New Zealand lamb, Korean cars, all cheaper, list can go on and on. The Spanish salad growers, the dutch flower growers, Belgian chocolate makers, German/French car makers will all go bankrupt. All because we can get the same or similar products/produce from other sources. The EU has a lot more to lose than the UK, Mrs May should say 'THAT'S ENOUGH WHEN YOU WANT A TRADE DEAL WITH US MY DOOR IS OPEN WHEN YOU MAKE AN APPOINTMENT' If the country/politicians had got behind our government it would have been sorted by now.

Is this a serious post or a parody?

 

[Puffing Devil]

Even the remoaners don't want to work or live in Europe!

I have worked in Europe. My job now requires me to work in Europe. I want to continue working in Europe. Brexit will restrict my ability to work.

Are you going to find me another job where I can be based in the Cheshire countryside, travel to clients and work with them without a visa all around Europe?

And no, I can't work with UK clients only - there isn't the work. I deal with multinationals.

How do you suggest I continue to make a living from March next year?

 

[Puffing Devil]

Largely irrelevant because the German engineering jobs will be expecting people to speak German.

And you would know because of your extensive, personal, experience of working outside of the UK in a professional role?

 

[Howardh]

I have worked in Europe. My job now requires me to work in Europe. I want to continue working in Europe. Brexit will restrict my ability to work.

Are you going to find me another job where I can be based in the Cheshire countryside, travel to clients and work with them without a visa all around Europe?

And no, I can't work with UK clients only - there isn't the work. I deal with multinationals.

How do you suggest I continue to make a living from March next year?

The mere fact that people like you will suffer means nothing to them as long as they get what they want. I'm still not exactly sure what that is, but don't you dare stand in their way.

 

[Billy A]

Will they?
When was this stated? I genuinely don't know, so enlightenment would be good.
Do the Irish people agree with it and would they vote for it in a referendum?

There've been several opinion polls on the question of Ireland leaving or staying in the EU and the "remain" opinion has been around 90%. As to whether this would change in the event of a "hard" border, I very much doubt it. Most people don't live near the border and it doesn't impinge on them one way or other.

 

[Billy A]

What's this scaremongering about? Think positive, we can have south African fruit. Brazilian beef, New Zealand lamb, Korean cars, all cheaper, list can go on and on. The Spanish salad growers, the dutch flower growers, Belgian chocolate makers, German/French car makers will all go bankrupt. All because we can get the same or similar products/produce from other sources. The EU has a lot more to lose than the UK, Mrs May should say 'THAT'S ENOUGH WHEN YOU WANT A TRADE DEAL WITH US MY DOOR IS OPEN WHEN YOU MAKE AN APPOINTMENT' If the country/politicians had got behind our government it would have been sorted by now.

German and French car makers going bankrupt certainly sounds good. It's not as though BMW make Minis in the UK or that PSA have two manufacturing plants there or anything.
Oh, wait.....

 

[mmh]

I have worked in Europe. My job now requires me to work in Europe. I want to continue working in Europe. Brexit will restrict my ability to work.

Are you going to find me another job where I can be based in the Cheshire countryside, travel to clients and work with them without a visa all around Europe?

And no, I can't work with UK clients only - there isn't the work. I deal with multinationals.

How do you suggest I continue to make a living from March next year?

Why will Brexit stop you from doing any of this?

 

[mmh]

And you would know because of your extensive, personal, experience of working outside of the UK in a professional role?

I don't know why remoaners need to make things personal, I think my work history is pretty irrelevant, but to answer your question,

Yes.

 

[Howardh]

Why will Brexit stop you from doing any of this?

One is he won't be guaranteed a working visa. You know, you voted to restrict the number of working visas the UK doles out in future so the EU will do exactly the same. So if he can't get one due to any reason, maybe "quotas", will that make you happy? And regardless of whether he can continue working, there will be many who cannot.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Why will Brexit stop you from doing any of this?

Oh - just the fact that I will need to get a VISA to work in the EU for which there is no process or guarantee! For me that's the only hurdle, for others it's worse. Whilst I am a Chartered Engineer I don't need to flex that qualification for my job. For those working in the EU with professional qualifications that recognition vanishes when we leave in March. There is nothing in place to recognise qualifications in the future. That applies to Doctors, Dentists, Nurses and many other professionals. What do you suggest they do, come home to blighty and leave behind the lives that they have built abroad?

I don't know why remoaners need to make things personal, I think my work history is pretty irrelevant, but to answer your question,
Yes.

It's not personal and it is very relevant. I'm asking about your experience and knowledge of the subject as you are very keen to post opinion as fact - such as the need to speak German to work in Germany; that is simply not the case. Also that no remainer wants to work in Europe, you're simply wrong.

I know many engineers who work in Europe (which includes Germany) and conduct their business in English. Many have picked up the local language over time, but it is by no mean necessary to hold down a job. I can travel around using Italian and French, but could not hold an extensive business conversation, though I've managed to have a successful career using English.

That's my experience, which is in direct contradiction to yours. So, as you answered "Yes" to the question having "extensive, personal, experience of working outside of the UK in a professional role", please let us know specifically what your extensive experience was. If you can't or won't, we'll simply disregard your opinion as irrelevant and unsubstantiated.

 

[northwichcat]

No you specifically said they would be moved to the continent

I never said plant closures though yet you asked for a citation regarding plant closures. Scaling back the number of workers at a UK site while expanding a site on the continent was what I mentioned, you suggested plant closures so I suggested you must have heard plant closures from another source.

Ahh yes - potentially - its an amazing word just like 'could' its none committal yet you are using it to state facts. Brilliant. Just brilliant. They potentially could expand ellesmere port too

They could but they've already announced 250 redundancies at Ellesmere Port so it's clear that there's no short term plan to increase production at the site. Redundancies have happened - it's you that's speculating about a potential bright future with absolutely no evidence.

and they could build every aeroplane the world will ever need here too.

The Airbus A380 funding arrangement means the work has to be split between countries. It's already a difficult process for Airbus without adding red tape to moving part built sections between the UK and France.

While Boeing are an American manufacturer, there's no way every Boeing plane will be built in the UK even if Trump goes and Bombardier are currently cutting back aeroplane production in the UK - so your idea of every plane in the world being built in the UK is the probably the most far fetched idea ever posted on this forum.

 

[Puffing Devil]

For international manufacturers, the addition of import duties means that we become even more uneconomic as a production centre. Parts that travel backwards and forwards will attract customs charges, unless we stay in the single market. Kiss goodbye to the long-term future of manufacture for export. We may be used as a final assembly line for some cars for domestic consumption - the Airbus wings business will be flying off to the EU. We have no export market from the UK for the major manufacturers - why would they? Then can build the same product in Europe and pay no import duty when they more it around the EU26.

 

[SWTCommuter]

For international manufacturers, the addition of import duties means that we become even more uneconomic as a production centre. Parts that travel backwards and forwards will attract customs charges, unless we stay in the single market.

In 2013, Ford closed their Southampton plant and moved European production of the Transit van to their plant in Turkey (outside the Single Market) suggesting that the customs union set out in the Ankara Agreement is sufficient for their purposes.

 

[northwichcat]

Unlike Turkey or Asia we don't have cheap labour - we moan if labour is moderately priced instead of well paid.

 

[Puffing Devil]

In 2013, Ford closed their Southampton plant and moved European production of the Transit van to their plant in Turkey (outside the Single Market) suggesting that the customs union set out in the Ankara Agreement is sufficient for their purposes.

We do not have the benefit of the Ankara Agreement.

 

[SWTCommuter]

Unlike Turkey or Asia we don't have cheap labour - we moan if labour is moderately priced instead of well paid.

Quite. For Ford, a more efficient plant is more important than being in the single market. Though I think the main reason they moved was lack of space for expansion at Southampton.

We do not have the benefit of the Ankara Agreement.

I know. That's why I mentioned it. I was replying to your point about the single market. If we can get a similar tariff-free agreement, it may not matter so much if we are not in the single market

 

[Puffing Devil]

I know. That's why I mentioned it. I was replying to your point about the single market. If we can get a similar tariff-free agreement, it may not matter so much if we are not in the single market

IF....

 

[northwichcat]

Seems Rome took a chance on an anti-establishment populist mayor and things have got worse not better. I wonder how long before certain Britons realise anti-establishment and populist may be worse not better.

Thousands of people have taken to the streets of Rome to protest at the Italian capital's run-down state.

Demonstrators gathered outside the city hall to denounce Mayor Virginia Raggi for failing to tackle issues including uncollected rubbish and potholed roads.

Ms Raggi took control of Rome in 2016 for the Five Star Movement (M5S), which formed a national coalition government earlier this year.

Her popularity has fallen after failing to address the indebted city's issues.

The protest follows the collapse of an escalator on one of the main metro stations, which injured more than 20 people earlier this week.

Many were Russian fans of CSKA Moscow, visiting for their Champions League match against Roma.

• Protest party finds ruling Rome is hard
• Why do Rome's buses keep catching fire?
• Why Rome sends trains filled with rubbish to Austria

Rome's first female mayor says she is making progress tackling the city's problems, and needs more time to finish the job.

But critics say things are getting worse, not better.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46003670

 

[birchesgreen]

The world is complex and growing ever more so, populists tend to offer simple solutions which sound like common sense and correct only its not how the world works. Anyway if it was so easy everyone would already be doing it.

 

[AM9]

Seems Rome took a chance on an anti-establishment populist mayor and things have got worse not better. I wonder how long before certain Britons realise anti-establishment and populist may be worse not better.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46003670

Well London certainly learnt it's lesson with Johnson and weren't going to endure another term of him. It seems as though he has been neutralised in any meaningful national debate as well.

 

[SWTCommuter]

IF....

I agree, the way things are going it appears to be a big IF.

 

[bramling]

Well London certainly learnt it's lesson with Johnson and weren't going to endure another term of him.

Clearly London didn’t “learn its lesson” that quickly as I seem to remember Johnson was re-elected for a second term.

As for the current mayor, would we not say that the fares freeze - which has completely wrecked TFL’s finances - is a populist policy?

 

[Groningen]

Now that you are leaving there is a small problem. What will the UK do with summer- and wintertime. 1 Day ago the clock was turned back 1 hour for the last time. The EU has decided that next year we will have Always (why do i get Always with a capital) summer- or wintertime. If we decided for wintertime and the UK has summertime than there will be a 2 hour timedifference.

 

[northwichcat]

Now that you are leaving there is a small problem. What will the UK do with summer- and wintertime. 1 Day ago the clock was turned back 1 hour for the last time. The EU has decided that next year we will have Always (why do i get Always with a capital) summer- or wintertime. If we decided for wintertime and the UK has summertime than there will be a 2 hour timedifference.

While I'm not in favour of leaving I don't really see the issue. A UK company I used to work for had a client in Canada, we had to allow for Eastern Time being 5 hours behind the UK for most of the year but two short periods every year when they were 4 hours behind us due to the difference in clock change dates.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Now that you are leaving there is a small problem. What will the UK do with summer- and wintertime. 1 Day ago the clock was turned back 1 hour for the last time. The EU has decided that next year we will have Always (why do i get Always with a capital) summer- or wintertime. If we decided for wintertime and the UK has summertime than there will be a 2 hour timedifference.

This is perhaps one bit of Brexit I don't think will cause a major issue, as most of mainland Europe is an hour out anyway. We'll be two or one hours out, depending on the time of year.

We're currently out of sync with North America until they end their daylight saving time next weekend. Makes not much difference, other than a little more attention when planning meetings.

 

[Groningen]

If there is a 2 hour difference and it is possible to do Brussel - London under 2 hours, than arrivaltime will be earlier than departuretime.

 

[northwichcat]

If there is a 2 hour difference and it is possible to do Brussel - London under 2 hours, than arrivaltime will be earlier than departuretime.

Yes that happen when there's a time difference.

 

[radamfi]

Ireland might have different time to the UK, including Northern Ireland.

 

[Howardh]

I've no issues with using GMT, BST or Ferguson Time.

But it would be handy if the UK had the same time as central and western Europe (Portugal is different) - and I don't understand why Spain has to be GMT+2 in summer so mid-day is around 2pm! As I said, Portugal is on the same time as us (and I think the Canaries??) but not Spain as Portugal is further west.