East Coast after 13th Nov any Diff?

[northernrail2009]

When National hands back the east coast routes on Saturday Morning will we see any Changes right away?

I mean things like what the Staff wear and signs at Stations like York station with National Express everywhere?

Will The Trains get a new makeover or will they leave them as they are until someone takes over full time?

It cant be a easy job taking over from the likes of National Express.

 

[Aictos]

Well as far as I know from reading up on Connex, when the South Central and South Eastern franchises were took over by the government, they improved greatly with staff morale up, passenger morale up, performance up.
So what did they do? Just refranchised it again when the proof was there that it was better off being nationalised.

Still as to East Coast, expect minor changes like the National Express logo going from signs to be replaced by East Coast (new DOR logo), livery to stay the same except just have East Coast, announcements referring to services as East Coast service to XXXX etc...

 

[jopsuk]

The logos won't even disappear completely overnight- I'm sure I've read that they'll have until the end of the year to deal with the likes of uniform and station signs.

 

[2030720310]

Well as far as I know from reading up on Connex, when the South Central and South Eastern franchises were took over by the government, they improved greatly with staff morale up, passenger morale up, performance up.
So what did they do? Just refranchised it again when the proof was there that it was better off being nationalised.

Still as to East Coast, expect minor changes like the National Express logo going from signs to be replaced by East Coast (new DOR logo), livery to stay the same except just have East Coast, announcements referring to services as East Coast service to XXXX etc...

But surely Southern and Southeastern aren't that bad though? IMO they're the better franchises in the rail industry, but I say that coming from Worcestershire!!

 

[Aictos]

But surely Southern and Southeastern aren't that bad though? IMO they're the better franchises in the rail industry, but I say that coming from Worcestershire!!

You misunderstood my post, full stop - I was in fact referring to the South Central and South Eastern routes when managed by Connex.
At no time was I discussing the current operators of Southern or South Eastern.

What I was trying to refer to was the Connex management at the time which got so bad, Connex had their franchises stripped from them which resulted in the two companies being run by the government until Govia took over and rebranded them as Southern and South Eastern.

 

[2030720310]

You misunderstood my post, full stop - I was in fact referring to the South Central and South Eastern routes when managed by Connex.
At no time was I discussing the current operators of Southern or South Eastern.

What I was trying to refer to was the Connex management at the time which got so bad, Connex had their franchises stripped from them which resulted in the two companies being run by the government until Govia took over and rebranded them as Southern and South Eastern.

You talked about when it was refranchised, implying that it was worse than nationalisation. I know what you were referring to but you also mentioned when it was refranchised....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So what did they do? Just refranchised it again when the proof was there that it was better off being nationalised.

You spoke like it's a bad thing that Southern and Southeastern have come in.

 

[Aictos]

I've said nothing against Southern or South Eastern except that it was a mistake on the government to have re franchise these routes out again when they should have kept them in house to keep them as a measuring stick for the other privately managed franchises to present a decent service.

Much like should happen with the East Coast and use it as the yardstick in which all long distance TOCs should work to.

 

[2030720310]

I've said nothing against Southern or South Eastern except that it was a mistake on the government to have re franchise these routes out again when they should have kept them in house to keep them as a measuring stick for the other privately managed franchises to present a decent service.

Much like should happen with the East Coast and use it as the yardstick in which all long distance TOCs should work to.

Yeah, anyway forgetting our difference (and probably my ignorance!! ) I do think if East Coast (government run) works there is a definite case for nationalisation, if passengers came first in the railway industry!!

 

[NSEFAN]

Being run by the government, everything will be done as cheaply as possible, and the cheapest option is to change as little as possible. I should imagine NXEC branding will be around for some time yet.

It's still possible to find the odd piece of NSE and early-privatisation branding here and there. If private companies with money can't kill off old liveries, it seems unlikely that a skint government can.

 

[paul1609]

Well as far as I know from reading up on Connex, when the South Central and South Eastern franchises were took over by the government, they improved greatly with staff morale up, passenger morale up, performance up.
So what did they do? Just refranchised it again when the proof was there that it was better off being nationalised.

Still as to East Coast, expect minor changes like the National Express logo going from signs to be replaced by East Coast (new DOR logo), livery to stay the same except just have East Coast, announcements referring to services as East Coast service to XXXX etc...

Don't think you have read up very well then! the South Central Franchise passed directly from Connex to Govia (Southern) with no Government control. The Southeastern period in Government control bought with it severe cost controls which resulted in maintenance being deferred and the franchise was generally recognized to be somewhat run down when Govia took it over.

 

[2030720310]

I've said nothing against Southern or South Eastern except that it was a mistake on the government to have re franchise these routes out again when they should have kept them in house to keep them as a measuring stick for the other privately managed franchises to present a decent service.

Much like should happen with the East Coast and use it as the yardstick in which all long distance TOCs should work to.

And basically what you're saying is that Southern and Southeastern are good franchises but the government should've kept southeastern under their control?

 

[37401]

is it true NXEC are letting enthusiasts rip NXEC related posters/stickers off their trains and stations?

 

[Helvellyn]

is it true NXEC are letting enthusiasts rip NXEC related posters/stickers off their trains and stations?

If that is so then it must be at the discretion of the relevant on train or station staff. Yet I'd hope they are not been ripped off, as that would lead to added air of lack of care, etc. Giving unused posters, etc, away that will be of no use to DOR is a different matter.

One thing that counts about East Coast remaining Government run for too long - it makes the Government accountable in the eye of most passengers. Whereas with private operators they take the grief when things go wrong, or even about fares, etc. Yet how many people realise how much control DfT actually execises over the TOCs, despite them being operated by private companies?

 

[O L Leigh]

There will indeed be some differences. The entire company is going to get a rebrand and new uniforms, as you can see below.

91111 is the first to carry the new train branding.

Here, staff in the new uniforms relax in the buffet area.

Rumours that the two classes of accommodation are to be renamed Lords and Commons instead of First and Standard have been strenuously denied.

O L Leigh

 

[amn140174]

Picked up a copy of the new timetable at Newcastle yesterday and everything is still directing you to National Express, website, booking, customer services the lot. Timetable is dated something like 12th December 2009 to 22 June 2010, the dates are off the top of my head though. Only real difference in it is on the front it has a route map and the lettering "East Coast" on the top but the key to the route still states National Express so looks like the name will live on until at least June as I cant see a reprint coming off.

 

[fgwrich]

The logos won't even disappear completely overnight- I'm sure I've read that they'll have until the end of the year to deal with the likes of uniform and station signs.

Maybe So...Maybe not...Read a few weeks ago that NX has until Earley december to completley de-brand East Coast...although weather that has been brought foward i dont know...

 

[bnsf734]

I have just looked on the NatEx East Coast website which has no mention of its owners impending demise. Eastcoast.com is available should anybody want it, but my guess is Eastcoast.co.uk will be operational very soon....

I typed it into my browser and it came up as under construction and is "being configured". As the current website was set up by GNER just before its demise I expect the current site will carry over with rebranding.

I am surprised Eastcoast.com has not been registered, as a couple of open access operators my be interested.....

Calv

 

[googolplex]

I've just checked eastcoast.co.uk and it's registered to East Coast Main Line Company Ltd and is hosted with ATOS Origin, so I think you're right.
I assume that from midnight all NXEC domains will redirect to the eastcoast.co.uk domain.

 

[attics26]

seat res charges dropped from 1st jan 2010.
planned gating at York withdrawn.

 

[djw1981]

That last one I don;t understand. Barriers IMO and IME reduce ticketless travel and make stations feel much safer. I know York was difficult to achieve but not impossible.

 

[Adam14]

I have just looked on the NatEx East Coast website which has no mention of its owners impending demise. Eastcoast.com is available should anybody want it, but my guess is Eastcoast.co.uk will be operational very soon....

I typed it into my browser and it came up as under construction and is "being configured". As the current website was set up by GNER just before its demise I expect the current site will carry over with rebranding.

I am surprised Eastcoast.com has not been registered, as a couple of open access operators my be interested.....

Calv

It looks like somebody has now taken EastCoast.com.

They should have snapped this one up too.

 

[andylloyd]

going onto the NXEC website, directs you to the new East Coast Site.
Eventually everything will be sorted out......

 

[mathmo]

planned gating at York withdrawn.

And I only got an email from City of York Council a few days ago telling me that NXEC were appealing the refusal of permission for the gates!

 

[ricbax]

That last one I don;t understand. Barriers IMO and IME reduce ticketless travel and make stations feel much safer. I know York was difficult to achieve but not impossible.

Not impossible, but too impractical to be worthwhile IMO, what with the two station entrances and the requirement for access through the station to reach the NRM. You would either have to ride roughshod over this requirement, or dream up a very elaborate gating scheme requiring high staffing levels. Or possibly just gate only some of the platforms (as is the case at Edinburgh Waverley).

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Newcastle's gating scheme when the proposed new western entrance comes into play - the only way I can see this working is if platform 12 is left ungated, or even (shock horror) withdrawn from passenger use entirely. This platform is currently only used for the Stranraer trains, as far as I know.

 

[SWT Driver]

The sooner the whole lot is taken back into government ownership the better AFAIC.

It means that we the taxpayers are not pouring money private companies profits.

When it goes wrong, there'll be only one point to go to rather than several as now. One company, one set of rules (not loads of different company policies!)

Privatisation is a mess & a disaster, no-one wants to take responsibility when a tragic accident occurs and then when it does happen the "Gentlemen's/Old Boy's Club" comes to the rescue.

The whole thing should be scrapped.

If the dimwitted civil service munchkins insist it does have to be privatised then it should be BR PLC or BR LLC, which runs the trains be it passenger or freight and NR PLC or NR LLC for the infrastructure; None of this multi-company crap.

It's called keeping it simple.

 

[furryfeet]

Barriers IMO and IME reduce ticketless travel and make stations feel much safer.

I would like to see some concrete evidence i.e. figures to justify this - especially in the light of an article in one of this months railway magazines which casts severe doubt on how useful barriers are overall on main lines, both in respect of ticket collection and "safety".

 

[djw1981]

Safety -
a) always a member of staff on station concourse to staff the barrier.
b) separation of train platforms from passing public
c) control of crowds waiting on platforms

Tickets
a) all arrivals must buy a ticket (on train or destination platform ticket booth) - all tickets can be checked using fewer staff
b) all departures must buy a ticket prior to travel
c) onboard (post departure) ticket checks c an thus focus on ticket validity and railcard validity.
These points interestingly supported by the London Underground experience AIUI

Who would be doing such research - presumably DfT must have in order to mandate inclusion in new franchise agreements.

 

[ChrisTheRef]

I can't help but feel we've moved off topic a tad.

Has anyone used East Coast today? Noticed any differences?

 

[CCF23]

The logos won't even disappear completely overnight- I'm sure I've read that they'll have until the end of the year to deal with the likes of uniform and station signs.

Well First Great Eastern livery and branding still exists on many NXEA 321 units nearly 6 years after that franchise finished.

 

[djw1981]

All debranding to be complete by December changeover.